To HID or not to HID....
02-19-2012, 11:50 PM
#1
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To HID or not to HID....
just want to hear input, I hear people say the housing is meant for halogen etc. I'd be interested in both driving and fog. I'm just a bit lost on all the wiring. I did email ZZP about their install prices, kinda hurt but if I want i want it done I'm all for it.
If I get some positives I may have to convert the other cars after I see the whole HID setup. Does this screw with the day time running lights?
If I get some positives I may have to convert the other cars after I see the whole HID setup. Does this screw with the day time running lights?
02-20-2012, 09:42 AM
#6
Senior Member
For the love of god DON'T put hids in the stock reflector housing! Do it right with retro's or buy some projector headlights. ******* hate people with hids in stockers.. you'll blind everyone.
02-20-2012, 10:56 AM
#10
exactly, i got a hid kit in my stockers... Aimed them down a little and no one hi beams me and the light pattern is just fine. But if i you have the money for a retro set than go ahead. Hids in stock housing are great cost effective way get better lighting than halogens imo
02-20-2012, 11:11 AM
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Ok sounds good... I know zzp's kits are 70 each... I'm 30 min from them. When it comes to wiring I tend to run away :P I guess I'll have to look for a decent kit then try to find someone around Michigan to help me out with this.
02-20-2012, 11:17 AM
#12
Don't listen to people who are trying to talk you into taking the cheap way out. I know that is probably what you want to hear but its going to cause you more problems in the long run.
buyhids.com prices are very competitive for the right solution for you.
Retrofit Headlights
Aiming the lights down will do nothing but improve the lighting 30' in front of your car. Who cares!? Better off sticking with stock lights at that point. And you will still attract attention from the police because all then need to see if one bit of glare and they will pull you over. The excuse "people on CSS said I would be okay." won't cut it!
Do it right or don't do it at all.
buyhids.com prices are very competitive for the right solution for you.
Retrofit Headlights
Aiming the lights down will do nothing but improve the lighting 30' in front of your car. Who cares!? Better off sticking with stock lights at that point. And you will still attract attention from the police because all then need to see if one bit of glare and they will pull you over. The excuse "people on CSS said I would be okay." won't cut it!
Do it right or don't do it at all.
02-20-2012, 12:32 PM
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Don't listen to people who are trying to talk you into taking the cheap way out. I know that is probably what you want to hear but its going to cause you more problems in the long run.
buyhids.com prices are very competitive for the right solution for you.
Retrofit Headlights
Aiming the lights down will do nothing but improve the lighting 30' in front of your car. Who cares!? Better off sticking with stock lights at that point. And you will still attract attention from the police because all then need to see if one bit of glare and they will pull you over. The excuse "people on CSS said I would be okay." won't cut it!
Do it right or don't do it at all.
buyhids.com prices are very competitive for the right solution for you.
Retrofit Headlights
Aiming the lights down will do nothing but improve the lighting 30' in front of your car. Who cares!? Better off sticking with stock lights at that point. And you will still attract attention from the police because all then need to see if one bit of glare and they will pull you over. The excuse "people on CSS said I would be okay." won't cut it!
Do it right or don't do it at all.
02-20-2012, 01:02 PM
#14
Thanks for the kind words guys.
I will say, HIDs in our stock headlights are not bad. Little to no glare which is good. The way our headlights were designed we were lucky. Will you get pulled over? Most likely not but i cant be 100% Ive never had anyone bothered. The best and true way is to have a Retrofit setup which is taking a projector designed for HIDs and having it installed into your stock headlights. We sell complete PnP out of the box headlights with them installed. If you dont want to spend the money on a Real projector setup our Bi-Xenon setup is top notch. Our bulbs give you TRUE high beams. Our kit is 100% plug-n-play and I am here and can walk you through EACH step. Also we have detailed Instructions with pictures. PM us if your interested!
I will say, HIDs in our stock headlights are not bad. Little to no glare which is good. The way our headlights were designed we were lucky. Will you get pulled over? Most likely not but i cant be 100% Ive never had anyone bothered. The best and true way is to have a Retrofit setup which is taking a projector designed for HIDs and having it installed into your stock headlights. We sell complete PnP out of the box headlights with them installed. If you dont want to spend the money on a Real projector setup our Bi-Xenon setup is top notch. Our bulbs give you TRUE high beams. Our kit is 100% plug-n-play and I am here and can walk you through EACH step. Also we have detailed Instructions with pictures. PM us if your interested!
02-23-2012, 11:55 AM
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i had HIDs in my stock housing.. im guilty lol i blinded EVERYONE. all my friends hated them..so i eventually took them out and im running stock halogens and yellow fogs. I can see way better with this set up IMO
02-27-2012, 10:14 PM
#18
New Member
HID lights are great! I bought a relatively cheap kit ~$70 on Ebay. They look great but if you get an HID kit, GET PROJECTOR HEADLIGHT HOUSINGS! HID in the stock halogen housings will infuriate nearly every oncoming driver at night. The problem is, stock housings scatter the beam making it inefficient and not worth the work. Most HID kits now are plug and play just dont make the same mistake I did, heh.
02-27-2012, 10:34 PM
#20
If you'd like to ask me some questions on how and why to do hids the RIGHT way, feel free to PM me, I'd be glad to answer any of your question.
02-27-2012, 11:15 PM
#21
I cant stand HID threads, i wish i just never posted in here, but since i did here it is "real talk"
HID's are bright as hell, in our stock housings with slightly aiming them down they were perfect, and do not blind people unless you use a 8000k+ kit, the blinding light comes from the blue, which is harder on night vision than white.
Snobby people from hidplanet are the worst. OMG U ******* NOOB GO DIE for using hids in your stock headlights, if you every drove by me id follow you home and slash your tires.... yes things like this have been said on that forum because people hate all the guys that put purple hids in old civic reflector housings. and then they say stuff like "omg 8000k is like driving with candles, that blue light is useless" I had 8000k for 2 years and they kicked ass!!! not too blue at all and we super bright. on top of that people destroy you for using DDM tuning saying all their stuff is chinese garbage! come on man, the best stuff in the world comes from china! Iphones to microwaves who cares that its from a 3rd world country!
But in reality ive run my last 3 cars with 6000,8000 and 10,000k and only had an issue with being high beamed when i messed with the reflector, i just aimed them down slightly and fixed the problem im very happy with them (although im still doing retros for maximum output).
sorry if im being a douche or beating this to a pulp but it never ends. Yes retros are better, but $80 bixenon hids from DDM tuning are excellent if you dont want to spend alot of money, and the bixenons from buyhids are a step up from that because they use a better style high beam.
HID's are bright as hell, in our stock housings with slightly aiming them down they were perfect, and do not blind people unless you use a 8000k+ kit, the blinding light comes from the blue, which is harder on night vision than white.
Snobby people from hidplanet are the worst. OMG U ******* NOOB GO DIE for using hids in your stock headlights, if you every drove by me id follow you home and slash your tires.... yes things like this have been said on that forum because people hate all the guys that put purple hids in old civic reflector housings. and then they say stuff like "omg 8000k is like driving with candles, that blue light is useless" I had 8000k for 2 years and they kicked ass!!! not too blue at all and we super bright. on top of that people destroy you for using DDM tuning saying all their stuff is chinese garbage! come on man, the best stuff in the world comes from china! Iphones to microwaves who cares that its from a 3rd world country!
But in reality ive run my last 3 cars with 6000,8000 and 10,000k and only had an issue with being high beamed when i messed with the reflector, i just aimed them down slightly and fixed the problem im very happy with them (although im still doing retros for maximum output).
sorry if im being a douche or beating this to a pulp but it never ends. Yes retros are better, but $80 bixenon hids from DDM tuning are excellent if you dont want to spend alot of money, and the bixenons from buyhids are a step up from that because they use a better style high beam.
02-28-2012, 01:42 PM
#22
Read.
It's become apparent that there are a lot of people who go out and buy HID's without knowing what they are getting into. Basically, they are throwing cash away. So hopefully this thread helps.
Projector vs Reflector
Now, as some of of you may have noticed there are a few of us that tend to complain to many members about putting HID's in factory halogen reflector housings. Most of you don't understand why.... maybe this will help.
First lets compare the light output.
Your factory halogen system is anywhere from 550 lumens to 1100 lumens.
HID kits range from 1200-3500 lumens; the 4300k bulbs being the most light output, and the purpley 10000+k systems dipping down to 1200 lumens.
It's easy to see here, that a decent HID kit will produce nearly 3 times the light as a regular bulb.
Now, lets compare the housings.
Reflector housing are made to push the light in one direction. They do the job, but you can't control all of the light output of a bulb. You can get glare at the ends of the output light. It's caused by scattered light hitting a point on the reflector, that it wasn't supposed to hit.
See the left image below.
Projectors, on the other hand, take all of the reflected light, and focus it on to a projection lens. This controls the end of the output a bit better... The disadvantage though, is that a projector will put out light on in the upper directions as well. A cut off shield prevents this. It limits how much light is sent to the top of the lens.
See the right image below.
Now, what is glare?
The glare I refer to is a beam of light directly hitting a persons eye.
I'm not talking about looking at the beam from a side or any of that... I mean right at the eye.
The reflective glare from some lights is similar to looking directly into the headlights.
Now I hope we all understand why we don't put HID's in reflector housings.
If you haven't got the point yet, here it is in simple terms.
After a conversion, your light will be 3 times brighter.... so will the glare.
Glare is what causes 'sun spots' in people eyes at night. A headlight light can cause reduced visibility for a while, but a very bright glare can actually temporarily blind a person. Not good if your the other driver.
What about cars that have OEM HID reflectors?
Yes, some cars, such as Lexus IS300's come from factory with HID's in reflector housings. We have to understand a few key points about this though.
1) The housings are specially designed for HID's, as to optimally cut down on HID glare. These aren't just your everyday run of the mill housing. Although they don't have a sharp cut off, they control where the light is being emitted to.
2) They use special bulbs; D2R. The D2R bulb has certain sections painted out on the bulb to reduce certain problematic glare areas. Also, D2R bulbs produce less light than the bulbs found in projectors.
How does this affect me?
Do you want to be the cause of an accident? Didn't think so.
There have been numerous reports in the across the US and Canada of accidents being caused by temporary blindness. What do you think was the cause? PnP HID kits.
Now it's a matter of time before the cops start cracking down on this.... and I sure hope they do.
Then what is the right way to do it?
Projector housings, or better yet, a retrofit.
You can buy projector headlights for under $250 now. They have dedicated low beam projectors, with pretty good cut offs in them. They are available from many retailers, and even on eBay.
A retro fit is indeed the best option. It basically consists of taking apart your headlights, and hacking the reflector housing to fit in a projector from a dedicated HID vehicle, like a TSX, FX35/45, or a BMW. It's actually the cheaper route in the end, but takes a lot of time. A retro can take anywhere from 12-26 hours of work, and many more hours of planning. Most retro's cost about $150-$200, plus the HID kit (bulbs and ballasts).
On a separate positive note, many newer factory HID projector are 'bi-xenon'. They have an adjustable cut off, to allow hi and lo functions on HID. Ex) Infiniti FX34/45.
So, that's the bottom line.
If you are still hell bent on a PnP ghetto kit, that's your deal.... but don't cry if something bad happens. (I've heard stories ranging from 'the cops ticketed me' to 'some angry motorist smashed my headlights')
Bulbs
It's apparent that many people have a misconception about bulbs, lumens, and kelvin.
So, lets clear this up right now. The higher the Kelvin, the less light output you get (lumens).
With that said, anything over 6000K is basically a waste.
So, what is the best bulb? IMO the 4300K is the best, as it has the highest light output. The problem, though, is that they have a yellow-ish tinge to them that some people find un-attractive. In that case, 5000-6000k is a better choice for you..... as they have a more blue look to them.
As you can see below, 4100k has almost the same color output as natural daylight.
(Image from HIDPlanet)
And a few comparisons of Kelvin color;
And a comparison of Kelvin to lumens;
Standard OEM halogen 55W 9006(HB4) = 1100lm (lumens)
4300k D2S Philips = 3200lm (lumens)
4300k D2R Philips = 2800lm (lumens)
4300k D2S Philips = 2400lm (lumens) actually 5800k
4300k D2R Philips = 2000lm (lumens) actually 5800k
4800k D4S/R (brand) = 3800 (lumens) -- brightest in the market
5800k D4S/R (brand) = 3300 (lumens)
7000k D2S other = 1790lm (lumens) *(other bulb brand)
7000k D2R other = 1390lm (lumens) *(other bulb brand)
8000k D2S other = 1180lm (lumens) *(other bulb brand)
8000k D2R other = 780lm (lumens) *(other bulb brand)
Higher than 8000k, the light output significantly drops off, causing the light to be almost useless.
One should point out that although light output drops off after 8000k, the fact that the light is in the blue-purple spectrum, it still puts a major strain on the eyes of others.
Now, it's also important to understand the 2 main types of bulbs used by the OEM's.
There is D2S, which is designed for projector housings. The bulb does not suppress any of light exiting the housing, as the projector controls that.
The D2R bulb, however, has a portion painted. This is because they are commonly used in reflector housing specially designed for HID's. The painted section controls the problematic glare sections that arise when using a reflector housing. As you may have noticed, from the above chart, the D2R has a lower light output.
D2R
D2S
And finally, for anyone searching for information on HID's or lighting in general, here are some important terms to know:
(Thanks to HIDPlanet)
Watt- Measure of electrical power (w)
Volt- Measure of electrical charge (v)
Kelvin- Measure of color temperature (K)
Lumen- Measure of light brightness (lu)
Capsule- technically correct term for a HID "bulb".
Candela- Measure of light intensity (cd)
Ampere- Measure of electrical current
Cut-off- A distinctive line of light produced by the shield in a headlight that blocks light above a certain height in order to prevent blinding of other motorists.
Beam Pattern- The pattern of light that is projected onto the ground which includes angle of lateral dispersion, width and depth of illumination.
Capsule- Another term for an HID bulb. Some refer to HID bulbs as gas discharge capsules.
Optics- The lighting control assembly structured around the bulb, which effects the dispersion of light and it's characteristics to a great degree.
HID (High Intensity Discharge)= Gas Discharge
Halogen= Incandescence
For a more in depth crash course in HID installation, check out this sticky.
HID NEWB CRASH COURSE by Haknslash - Cobalt SS Network
Projector vs Reflector
Now, as some of of you may have noticed there are a few of us that tend to complain to many members about putting HID's in factory halogen reflector housings. Most of you don't understand why.... maybe this will help.
First lets compare the light output.
Your factory halogen system is anywhere from 550 lumens to 1100 lumens.
HID kits range from 1200-3500 lumens; the 4300k bulbs being the most light output, and the purpley 10000+k systems dipping down to 1200 lumens.
It's easy to see here, that a decent HID kit will produce nearly 3 times the light as a regular bulb.
Now, lets compare the housings.
Reflector housing are made to push the light in one direction. They do the job, but you can't control all of the light output of a bulb. You can get glare at the ends of the output light. It's caused by scattered light hitting a point on the reflector, that it wasn't supposed to hit.
See the left image below.
Projectors, on the other hand, take all of the reflected light, and focus it on to a projection lens. This controls the end of the output a bit better... The disadvantage though, is that a projector will put out light on in the upper directions as well. A cut off shield prevents this. It limits how much light is sent to the top of the lens.
See the right image below.
Now, what is glare?
The glare I refer to is a beam of light directly hitting a persons eye.
I'm not talking about looking at the beam from a side or any of that... I mean right at the eye.
The reflective glare from some lights is similar to looking directly into the headlights.
Now I hope we all understand why we don't put HID's in reflector housings.
If you haven't got the point yet, here it is in simple terms.
After a conversion, your light will be 3 times brighter.... so will the glare.
Glare is what causes 'sun spots' in people eyes at night. A headlight light can cause reduced visibility for a while, but a very bright glare can actually temporarily blind a person. Not good if your the other driver.
What about cars that have OEM HID reflectors?
Yes, some cars, such as Lexus IS300's come from factory with HID's in reflector housings. We have to understand a few key points about this though.
1) The housings are specially designed for HID's, as to optimally cut down on HID glare. These aren't just your everyday run of the mill housing. Although they don't have a sharp cut off, they control where the light is being emitted to.
2) They use special bulbs; D2R. The D2R bulb has certain sections painted out on the bulb to reduce certain problematic glare areas. Also, D2R bulbs produce less light than the bulbs found in projectors.
How does this affect me?
Do you want to be the cause of an accident? Didn't think so.
There have been numerous reports in the across the US and Canada of accidents being caused by temporary blindness. What do you think was the cause? PnP HID kits.
Now it's a matter of time before the cops start cracking down on this.... and I sure hope they do.
Then what is the right way to do it?
Projector housings, or better yet, a retrofit.
You can buy projector headlights for under $250 now. They have dedicated low beam projectors, with pretty good cut offs in them. They are available from many retailers, and even on eBay.
A retro fit is indeed the best option. It basically consists of taking apart your headlights, and hacking the reflector housing to fit in a projector from a dedicated HID vehicle, like a TSX, FX35/45, or a BMW. It's actually the cheaper route in the end, but takes a lot of time. A retro can take anywhere from 12-26 hours of work, and many more hours of planning. Most retro's cost about $150-$200, plus the HID kit (bulbs and ballasts).
On a separate positive note, many newer factory HID projector are 'bi-xenon'. They have an adjustable cut off, to allow hi and lo functions on HID. Ex) Infiniti FX34/45.
So, that's the bottom line.
If you are still hell bent on a PnP ghetto kit, that's your deal.... but don't cry if something bad happens. (I've heard stories ranging from 'the cops ticketed me' to 'some angry motorist smashed my headlights')
Bulbs
It's apparent that many people have a misconception about bulbs, lumens, and kelvin.
So, lets clear this up right now. The higher the Kelvin, the less light output you get (lumens).
With that said, anything over 6000K is basically a waste.
So, what is the best bulb? IMO the 4300K is the best, as it has the highest light output. The problem, though, is that they have a yellow-ish tinge to them that some people find un-attractive. In that case, 5000-6000k is a better choice for you..... as they have a more blue look to them.
As you can see below, 4100k has almost the same color output as natural daylight.
(Image from HIDPlanet)
And a few comparisons of Kelvin color;
And a comparison of Kelvin to lumens;
Standard OEM halogen 55W 9006(HB4) = 1100lm (lumens)
4300k D2S Philips = 3200lm (lumens)
4300k D2R Philips = 2800lm (lumens)
4300k D2S Philips = 2400lm (lumens) actually 5800k
4300k D2R Philips = 2000lm (lumens) actually 5800k
4800k D4S/R (brand) = 3800 (lumens) -- brightest in the market
5800k D4S/R (brand) = 3300 (lumens)
7000k D2S other = 1790lm (lumens) *(other bulb brand)
7000k D2R other = 1390lm (lumens) *(other bulb brand)
8000k D2S other = 1180lm (lumens) *(other bulb brand)
8000k D2R other = 780lm (lumens) *(other bulb brand)
Higher than 8000k, the light output significantly drops off, causing the light to be almost useless.
One should point out that although light output drops off after 8000k, the fact that the light is in the blue-purple spectrum, it still puts a major strain on the eyes of others.
Now, it's also important to understand the 2 main types of bulbs used by the OEM's.
There is D2S, which is designed for projector housings. The bulb does not suppress any of light exiting the housing, as the projector controls that.
The D2R bulb, however, has a portion painted. This is because they are commonly used in reflector housing specially designed for HID's. The painted section controls the problematic glare sections that arise when using a reflector housing. As you may have noticed, from the above chart, the D2R has a lower light output.
D2R
D2S
And finally, for anyone searching for information on HID's or lighting in general, here are some important terms to know:
(Thanks to HIDPlanet)
Watt- Measure of electrical power (w)
Volt- Measure of electrical charge (v)
Kelvin- Measure of color temperature (K)
Lumen- Measure of light brightness (lu)
Capsule- technically correct term for a HID "bulb".
Candela- Measure of light intensity (cd)
Ampere- Measure of electrical current
Cut-off- A distinctive line of light produced by the shield in a headlight that blocks light above a certain height in order to prevent blinding of other motorists.
Beam Pattern- The pattern of light that is projected onto the ground which includes angle of lateral dispersion, width and depth of illumination.
Capsule- Another term for an HID bulb. Some refer to HID bulbs as gas discharge capsules.
Optics- The lighting control assembly structured around the bulb, which effects the dispersion of light and it's characteristics to a great degree.
HID (High Intensity Discharge)= Gas Discharge
Halogen= Incandescence
For a more in depth crash course in HID installation, check out this sticky.
HID NEWB CRASH COURSE by Haknslash - Cobalt SS Network
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