Definitely disappointed by the numbers... with wheels on it will be still in the low 200's. You'd need a better flowing head and a larger turbo to get anywhere NEAR 300 to the wheels.

 

Im sorry, you must not be paying much attention. Bill Hahn's '08 is putting down 289 whp and 313 torque with just an exhaust and a tune. With all the correct supporting mods and a good tune it will be very close to 300 to the wheels, and strap on a bigger turbo and EASILY well over 300.

How can you be disappointed with 240whp and 250-260 torque to the wheels stock and getting over 30mph highway???????! You must have some VERY high standards.

 

I looked at the numbers from the first post that this thread is about:

**Stage 2 SC: 227whp/203ft lbs**
**SS/T: 237whp/258 ft lbs**

Can't quote something without paying attention

Those are numbers without wheels on a dynapack. Which means with wheels, the numbers go down even lower. I don't know who Bill Hahn is nore do I care; unless his car is the one that was on the dyno at the start of this thread. But there is a big difference between HP at the wheels and HP at the 'HUB'. So yes, I stand by what I said.

 

Where did you read that with wheels, the numbers would go down lower? Could you please point me to the reference you used to make that statement?

Because here's my reference showing how a Dynojet made 8-10% MORE whp than a Dynapack (test done on same exact vehicle, same day, just a few hours apart):

Dynapack and DynoJet head to head comparison
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZXbk3o-xHg

Already knowing long ago that Dynapacks made less whp than "roller" type dynos ... GREAT!
Being lucky enough to find a recent video test confirming what I already knew ... PRICELESS!

 

That's great; but there is a flaw in your logic. Different dynos can be calibrated to read differently. And that video was made specifically to show that that shop's dyno read lower than most dynojets... BECAUSE THEY USUALLY READ HIGHER.

You cannot tell me that proper HP measured at the HUB is going to be LOWER than a car with HP measured at the WHEELS. That my friend defies physics. Now if you know anything about dyno's, then you know that a dynapack can be calibrated to read 'like' a dynojet. Same as how mustang dynos are known to read lower than a dynojet, even though the wheels are on the car. Your logic says... my car makes 200hp at the wheels.. but if I take the wheels off, the car and measure; it will only now generate 184whp

http://hondata.com/dynok20a2nos.html

Look at that link. Here is THE PREMIERE Honda tuners with a direct statement "The vehicle was dyno'd on a DynoPack so the figures are 10-15 hp higher than what you will see on a DynoJet." And that is just one example.

Are you really trying to say that the SS/TC should in fact be making 256hp AT THE WHEELS STOCK?

 

You are getting confused here, and here is why ...

You are mentally "stuck" on this "with/without wheels" thing, when instead, you should be concentrating on the fact that these are two completely different types of dynos.

Another one of your stumbling blocks is that you don't believe that Dynojet's read ARTIFICIALLY high numbers. So when you ask if the SS/T would show 256whp on a Dynojet, the answer is YES. That is to say, on a Dynojet it would show that number.

Also, I asked you to provide PROOF of what you said. The link you listed was just a single person's thoughts/beliefs, with nothing to back it up.

IT PROVIDED NO PROOF WHATSOEVER OF ANYTHING, NOT BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION.

Take this into consideration as well ..

Several years ago, I used a totally different car on Synapse's dyno. Compared to what other people were consistently reporting with that car around the country on Dynojets (with the exact same mods), I was getting the SAME reported whp % difference as what was stated in the video test I linked to.

Again and again, it keeps adding up. So in summation:

• I provided physical proof for my statement in the form of my link's back-to-back testing (and then confirmed it on my own with another vehicle)
• in reply, I received absolutely no proof whatsoever which would counter my statement

Thanks, and ... The End

 

Dude could you be anymore buttsoar thats the new tc'd model is faster then your sc'd one..Every post you brew something up to put the new car down...The new balt has over 50 more hp (and a ton more torque) and from what im seeing can run all over a stage 2 bone stock. Race and dynowise. Thats before tuning, bolt ons, and playing w/ the boost...Pick up a new one or live w/ it, because once the mods come out the ss/sc doesnt have a chance without some extreme work.

 

Well i own an 08 ss/tc and i love it,

I traded my 06 ss/sc and i really love it too,

And i still own a blue srt4 and i really like the way it looks and sound.

I would really like to race you with your 06 portable disco or your grandpa cherookee just for the fun of it in my ugly car !!!!

to each their own a$$wipe

sorry for the tread hijacking !

 

Technically a turbo charger is a specific type of supercharger. Having said that, your impression is correct however because of the way they work, a turbo will peak below a supercharger. Turbochargers are notoriously hard to tune and the work above looks like a great tune for this engine.

A good FAQ is located at http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=19 and has both pros and cons for both.

- Solo

 

I agree....should be pretty close...say a car length or two difference between them is all....can't wait to see how much the aftermarket will get out of the turbo.

 

i put down 297fwhp and 346fwtq with bolt ons and tune

 

I wonder if this dude still belongs to the site. If so I hope he is eating humble pie right now. As I and many other members of this site have proven these cars can easily surpass 300whp with just a tune and maybe a few boltons. More than a tune only SRT neon could hope for and they have a larger motor.

 

there is already many many ppl getting over 300 hp 300 tq on stock turbos for these things.. in fact hahn is making 330hp 360tq 2 wheels on a cai, dwn pipe, 3" catback, chg piping, intercooler upgrade, and the tuner they sell. basic bolt on's, mucho power with out tune(sort of) ithink the gm lnf upgrade is a worthy upgrade also

 

Just updating the video link from my original posting (the old one no longer works):

2007 cobalt ss supercharged VS 2008 cobalt SS turbocharged
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_V0nqBrmgxQ

 

i just had my new turbo kit from synapse put in and tuned at 23/24 psi on pum p gas and made 353whp/34trq. next im goin to get tuned on race gas and turn up the boost hopefully to 28psi. heres a link to my car profile i havent yet updated my dyno sheets those are the old one i was tuned yesterday.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3373688

 

Nice! Everything else stock? (Clutch, fuel, ect...)

 

All of the vids i've seen the SRT-4 always gets the jump (The tires and the more toque help) and by 2nd gear the SS always pulls and by halfway through second it's over and done. And in terms of track #'s.

14.119 @ 102.19 mph (R/T=.289) (60ft=2.282)
14.122@102.21 mph (R/T=.217) (60ft=2.319)
14.211@102.17 mph (R/T=.209) (60ft=2.351)

Out of over 57 runs, about 87% were sub 2.4 60 ft times and sub 14.3.

And my personal best is still the slowest of the LNF's on the OCC. Next time i'm lowering the tire pressure and using 94 octane. Seems to work for everyone else who hit 13's.

Lol, I owned one and I loved the looks. Plus, at least Dodge gave the car good tires and it took GM how many years after the first SRT-4 rolled out to build a compact capable of at least 300hp? Lol, I love my 'Balt but lets not forget that the Neon SRT-4 and the SS T/C are basically the two biggest icons for North American Sport Compacts for under $25,000 these days. And they blow the doors off of all the Jap cars in the same price range (save for the mazdaspeed 3 perhaps) North American all the way. End of rant I swear

All I know is....When I had my SRT-4 and it was bone stock I was raping SS S/C's all day long. When I upped to the stage III kit with toys I was spanking damn near everything on the road. With my bone Stock SS T/C i'm spanking SRT-4's (stock) and once I get a good tune and a bigger turbo (I saw a Ball bearing Turbo that pushed it to 350whp and 371 trq.) I'll be raping stage III SRT-4's as when I dynoed mine on 94 Octane it was putting 337 to the wheels and 351 trq. on 94. 100 Ocatne in high octane mode it jumped to 357whp and almost 380 trq. The LNF can do that without race gas. The LSJ is lucky to push 300 on the stock Supercharger. The new SS also has better skid pad numbers and overall handling. Beefier axles. IMO, the T/C is the better car. The SS S/C was known for being lacklustre in it's performance class. Don't take it as an insult, i'm sure when the Cruze gets a high performance sport model it will rape my T/C too. It already looks way nicer inside and out in it's stock form. Progression, just love your car. The S/C has it's pros and Cons, the T/C has it's pros and cons, but unlike Dodge, GM actually made the next incarnation of their High Performance compact better. As we all know the Caliber SRT-4 is fugly, slow, bulky, handles like **** and has the interior of a ******* Caravan. Lets all be friends, we all rock SS badges and frankly we virtually all ass rape the best of the import market (stage 2 S/C and stock T/C). It could be worse, you could be driving a Civic.

 

Ms3's won't touch SS T/C's

 

True enough but it's the only somewhat affordable sport compact that comes close SS owns.

 

Seeing how my dyno face off showed Stage 2 SC's were virtually identical to TC's ...

Then that goes for Stage 2's as well!

 

Whoot! 19,373 views.

Didn't know when I posted this was gonna be the 6th most viewed thread in the 2.0L LNF Performance Tech section.

 

 

Well, it's been almost 2 years since the "back-to-back" dyno test of my SC Stage 2 vs. the stock SS/T.

A few thoughts ...

My Stage 2 only SC made 227whp and the stock Turbo made 237whp, which means my car made 95.78% of what the SS/T put down.

Doing a little math, 95.78% of the SS/T's claimed 260hp = 249hp for my Stage 2.

Somethings off, because GM says that the SC Stage 2 only makes 241hp.

???

 

The car was underated on HP to begin with. That is my theory.

 

You're making more like 259BHP. 259BHP - 12% driveline loss = 227.92 WHP. Most people say 15% driveline loss for a manual car, but on average Cobalts loose about 10-12% (manuals of course).

The SS/TC's are slightly underrated as well when it comes to BHP.