SynapseTurbo's Initial testing 365whp 359wtq

[ralliartist]

Originally Posted by fuente27hpv

are you gonna offer a turbo with a little less lag, like maybe a 50 trim? a 50 trim should hit full boost around 3500 RPM, great product though. I know it might be hard since you guys have to tune the computers for the different turbos

50 trims are old school, they need a ball bearing turbo with instant response. I figured the VVT, direct injection, and that crazy manifold would prevent lag like that, but unfortunately not. It seems as though the 2.0ltrs is what is killing it. Maybe if it was a 2.4ltr. lol.

Garrett GT3076R would have been a much better choice. About the same amount of lag and much more power.

[SynapseTurbo]

Originally Posted by ralliartist

50 trims are old school, they need a ball bearing turbo with instant response. I figured the VVT, direct injection, and that crazy manifold would prevent lag like that, but unfortunately not. It seems as though the 2.0ltrs is what is killing it. Maybe if it was a 2.4ltr. lol.

Garrett GT3076R would have been a much better choice. About the same amount of lag and much more power.

We have a 3076r that can also be put in this package for those looking for more power, but their will be some added lag.

[ralliartist]

Originally Posted by SynapseTurbo

This will be offered only in a BB config, if someone wants something with a little quicker spool we can put a smaller housing on it, but if you see our new graph your really not loosing much useable power on the low end.

I'm confused on what you mean. You just said that you aren't loosing much useable power on the low end. You do know that on the stock turbo, your car made over 50wtq MORE and about 40whp MORE on the low end. Which would be useable power that you drive with everyday.

To everyone else, imagine how slow the car would feel driving it everyday in traffic. I'm looking at it kind of like a honda. It's slow down low, and then vtec kicks in about 4k and the car starts making a butt load of power. Only problem is you only got about 2000-2500 of useable power.

These are just my observations. Don't take it personally please.

Originally Posted by SynapseTurbo

We have a 3076r that can also be put in this package for those looking for more power, but their will be some added lag.

have you tested this manifold on the stock manifold? I think something HAS to be up with it. Your new manifold design just doesn't seem like it's doing what it should be doing. I know Paul said he gets way quicker spool with his new manifold, and it's very similar to yours, just not top mounted.

[SynapseTurbo]

No need to argue, but a loss of 1500rpms down low to get the gains the rest of the time is a trade-off well worth it. Unfortunately, if your going to add 130whp your going to have to give-up something, give a little to get alot. A manifold with longer runners will add a little lag, but will perform on the top-end better.

[06blackg85ss]

Originally Posted by ralliartist

have you tested this manifold on the stock manifold? I think something HAS to be up with it. Your new manifold design just doesn't seem like it's doing what it should be doing. I know Paul said he gets way quicker spool with his new manifold, and it's very similar to yours, just not top mounted.

It spools up faster under load, and builds more boost in 1st gear now, but still just on a rolling 3rd gear punch it's still @4k rpm for full boost, but I'm also running a much larger turbo.


I've had some nice success with a 3071 on my friends cobalt... very very fast spool (on a log mani no lesS) and made 340whp on 15.5psi

[ralliartist]

I just don't understand why it lost so much down low. It's not even a big turbo. Just a 2871, it's ball bearing, and you designed a new manifold that should have in theory helped spool. I'm stumped.

[06blackg85ss]

large A/R (even though it's a smaller housing)

and side note, this is my car with the new mani in it.
60-1 HiFi

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/t...lls_199181.htm

[SynapseTurbo]

Originally Posted by ralliartist

I just don't understand why it lost so much down low. It's not even a big turbo. Just a 2871, it's ball bearing, and you designed a new manifold that should have in theory helped spool. I'm stumped.

We switched from a turbo that made 275whp on our dyno at the same boost level to 375whp, your going to give somethign up plain and simple. This car has spooled up a turbo of this size faster than any 4 cylinder I have seen. I have hundreds of dyno graphs of 4 cylinders and they are much lagger than this. FYI, a tubular manifold will spool later not faster than a log, but will create more velocity to the turbine for better top end.

Originally Posted by 06blackg85ss

large A/R (even though it's a smaller housing)

and side note, this is my car with the new mani in it.
60-1 HiFi

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/t...lls_199181.htm

Nice vid, ill have to get some incar, because our setup is no were near that laggy ont he street, but a 60-1 is deff. larger

[ralliartist]

ahhh, I see. I thought the tubular manifold decreased lag. I had it backwards. That explains it then.

[06blackg85ss]

oh I can imagine the spool on the 28, my friends srt runs a 2876 and that thing you to boost up as fast as my s/c setup did... If my ultimate goal wasn't over 500whp I'd be running a smaller turbo

[SynapseTurbo]

Originally Posted by 06blackg85ss

oh I can imagine the spool on the 28, my friends srt runs a 2876 and that thing you to boost up as fast as my s/c setup did... If my ultimate goal wasn't over 500whp I'd be running a smaller turbo

Absolutely, a 60-1 is perfect choice for around 500whp.

[boostking]

being this car does not have much top end ability would it be better to run the stock manifold with the the stock head/ balance shafts?

[08BlackSS/TC]

Originally Posted by boostking

being this car does not have much top end ability would it be better to run the stock manifold with the the stock head/ balance shafts?

I'm using the stock manifold for my GT3076R, the manifold is good to 600hp

[peachpuff]

Originally Posted by ralliartist

I'm confused on what you mean. You just said that you aren't loosing much useable power on the low end. You do know that on the stock turbo, your car made over 50wtq MORE and about 40whp MORE on the low end. Which would be useable power that you drive with everyday.

To everyone else, imagine how slow the car would feel driving it everyday in traffic.

This power loss is at wide open throttle, not partial throttle during cruising/traffic. Im sure the bigger turbo is a bit less responsive than the stock one during 25-50% throttle but you cant really measure this unless you drive the car.
Unless you start getting into 500+ whp turbo's you probably wont notice this.

[frankc5r]

[/URL][/IMG]

Originally Posted by ralliartist

I just don't understand why it lost so much down low. It's not even a big turbo. Just a 2871, it's ball bearing, and you designed a new manifold that should have in theory helped spool. I'm stumped.

One of the main advances of the LNF motor is the separation of the exhaust blowdown
pules in the exhaust manifold all the way thru the system and thru the dual scroll turbine
inlet housing. There is a good SAE paper describing the LNF motor in detail.[/IMG]

This image is from the paper and shows the improvement from the dual scroll. There is also a graph show difference in pressure in manifold.[IMG][/IMG]

Plus the pistons ARE different. Here is a picture. Notice the combustion area on top of
piston similar to a diesel.

[/URL][/IMG]



For your info, my HHR SS with Westers tune makes about 70 more ft# at 3250 rpm,
then crosses over at 3750rpm, the the Synapse makes more- about 100 at 5000 rpm.
I like the setup. Too bad you can not get a split hsn for the bigger turbo so you
could gain the benefits of the dual scroll.

frankc5r

retired enginner various GM racing programs

[JPizzle]

You seem like you know what the hell your talking about. I just wish we could get the rest of the pictures to show up.

Welcome!

[boostking]

Originally Posted by 08BlackSS/TC

I'm using the stock manifold for my GT3076R, the manifold is good to 600hp

I have this setup in the works as well......

[SynapseTurbo]

Originally Posted by boostking

I have this setup in the works as well......

Unfortunately your not getting the real benefits of a divided manifold without a twin-scroll turbo