RyRidesMotox

Actually direct injection has been used in diesels since the 50s. Its not a new concept but the problem for our cars is that they were designed as a dinosaur fuel only engine. It isn't made to be a vegetarian.

I agree 100%. It is a phenomenal idea. Its tested and proven in diesels to make huge power. But a diesel uses pumps and injectors that could empty an average family's pool in about 12 seconds haha. Our stuff just doesn't have the flow rates needed to inject enough E85. So sad because the first company that comes out with big injectors for our cars is going to make a **** ton of money.

CMVsst2010

iTrader: (2)

yeah thats for sure. hopefully somehow or someway somebody can figure out a way to run full veggie. that would be awesome and they really would make a **** ton!!! *cough* *cough* *ZZP* *cough* lol haha jk jk.

RyRidesMotox

Yea I know, I would love to swap injectors to some larger ones. I hear that the fuel pump flows enough to run E85 but its just the injectors that limit it. I could be wrong there though. I would like to see what ZZP thinks about the fuel pump and how it flows and how it would react to running e85. They probably know more about the mechanical side than most people on here.

Iam Broke

iTrader: (10)

I was popping a low fuel rail pressure CEL @ 6k / 2800 psi AND breaking up in the midrange on full E85 but I've added a lot of midrange timing since. I think the pump and the injectors are both too small. We'll see more next summer. You can run E85 on a stock TC, Gimpster did it but it's hard to get it to start under 40*f.

I've been running 60% E all winter but it wants to die out on a cold start once in a while.

RyRidesMotox

Gosh 40 degrees? Thats cold. It hardly ever gets that cold here. I am patiently waiting for more stations around me to carry E85 also.

09BlueBaltSS

Maybe that was the in-tank pump maxing out and starving the hpfp?

pbass

Really stoked about the 2860 for my DD, can't wait!

tglems

iTrader: (3)

Hey EJ, sorry about that. BBall practice from 730 till 9ish and then I was over at Nick's till close to 11...
Can't wait for friday though!

In other news, a lot of you have been wanting to know how this thing spools up. Well, it depends on tuning. We want to be certain not to boost spike at all with my car as I am not terribly interested in blowing the engine (I'm staying around 24psi max). When we had boost turned down a bit more if I put my foot down at just under 3krpm it would fully spool by about 4krpm. We've relaxed those restrictions a bit and last night I put my foot down, it hit the full 24psi by 3.5krpm and didn't spike at all. Definitely felt good and felt like it was spooling up close to how stock would.

jb09ss

3.5k rpm is about perfect. Who wants to be lugging the engine around @ 24+ psi lower than that anyway. Some valve spring and I bet you could have a usable power band of 3.5 to 7.5k rpm.

cubaniche

iTrader: (1)

Thats great news man. Glad you got the little kinks worked out and that tuning is going well!

HHRSSouth

Thanks for the update on the 2871R, it gives some of us who are on the fence about getting either the 2860 vs. 2871R a little better idea
I know we don't have any real world results with the 2860, but I would guess it would hit full spool up around 500 rpms sooner then the 2871R but lose some power up top. The 2860 still should pull all the way to redline though unlike our factory K04.

cubaniche

iTrader: (1)

Yeah its going to be a great little upgrade man

tglems

iTrader: (3)

Well, all the tuning credit has to go to BYT. He's been great!

pbass

What fuel were you running? You might have said before but I must have missed it.

Iam Broke

iTrader: (10)

Could be... no way to log the fuel pressures in HPT. Need a gauge on the inlet of the HPFP.

Could have been my #3 injector blowing fuel out around the missing teflon head seal also increasing flow demand. We'll see next summer. ZZP never popped the CEL on E85 AFAIK.

Matt M

The important thing to remember is that the mechanical high pressure pump varies speed with engine RPMs. This means that it does not have a specific horsepower that it can support. Rather, the limit would be more related to torque. Before running the dual rail fuel setup, I would run into pressure drop any time I tried to run too much boost through the mid-range. Rail pressure would climb to around 2500-2700 and then taper off to as low as 1500 with IDCs quickly jumping past 40 causing the typical misfires. We ran a quick test and watched fuel pressure at the mechanical pump inlet and it always maintained 60psi, meaning that replacing the in-tank pump should not offer any advantage. I'm guessing that if someone were to run an all-out race setup that spools the turbo at 5500 RPM and hits peak torque at 6000 RPM, then the in-tank pump might be the one to come up short. Even then, I'm not so sure. The setup I have on my car now is still making 380whp at 6500 RPM on E85 and the in-tank pump is keeping up just fine filling the mechanical pump and providing the additional fuel to the upper rail.

Iam Broke

iTrader: (10)

I'll admit when I was doing it, I was hitting 24-25 lbs boost when I nailed it at 55 in third. Massive torque spike and high injector DC. I could see bringing it on smoother & slower being easier for the HPFP to keep up. Ima gonna try again when the weather improves.
60 - 65% E is no problem right now. I hit the wall around 70-75% E last year.

Thanks for the input Matt, I always appreciate it.

tglems

iTrader: (3)

e47.5. I mix e85 with 91octane with a 50/50 ratio.

RyRidesMotox

Hey matt... So from what I am reading in your post... The injector pump can hold enough pressure for a bit to run straight E85 but then it tapers off? Can this be fixed via tuning do you think? And is there any hope of using stock injectors to run straight E85 and get over 350whp? I only ask because the options for different DI nozzles are non existent and I really would rather stay away from another set of injectors in the intake mani to run straight E85. Or am I reading your post totally wrong?

Terminator2

The biggest issue assuming your "lift" pump in the tank is good is that under high loads and lower RPMs the cam lobe that drives the HPFP is not spinning fast enough to drive it efficiently. Even at close to stock power levels you can see the injector pulse width is much longer (sometimes twice as long) at lets say 3500 RPMs vs 7000 RPMs. The reason the IPW is longer is due to the high pressure fuel pump not being able to build as much pressure as it could at a higher RPM when the cam is spinning faster. GDI is very inefficient at low RPMs and high loads unfortunately. That is why there are some japanese cars that are hybrids with both port injection and DI so as to have the best of both words. Of course these cars have different piston designs than a normal GDI piston like the LNF has.

Matt M

The only reason the pressure would hold for a brief period of time is because the turbo is not fully spooled yet. Once the engine airflow gets high enough, the mechanical pump is just not keeping up until it is spinning fast enough to move the volume of fuel required. It can not be fixed in the tune because it is a mechanical limitation. you can easily get over 350whp on E85. You just need to bring in boost slower to avoid the HPFP limitation. This issue certainly makes a good argument for swapping out to a larger turbo. If you can't use the boost down low that a stock turbo can provide, why not run a larger turbo and take advantage of top end? Of course we are only talking about E85 cars.

RyRidesMotox

Ahh gotcha. So basically we be fooked then. Matt are you going to be releasing that intake mani with the extra injectors for the general public? If I go E85 I don't want to mix.

turbo_chevy_cobalt

I working on going to 26psi right now on 91. I seeing if I can get to the power I was at with the other kit

elecblue06

iTrader: (1)

where the fak are the videos bishes lol

oldskool

The mazdaspeed3/6 guys have a couple different HPFP upgrades to take care of this - probably different gearing. Sounds like we need one as well