Choosing between ZZP and AutoWerks long block
10-20-2013, 01:23 AM
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Choosing between ZZP and AutoWerks long block
Hi all,
I was wondering how many of you have a zzp long block and how many have the AutoWerks long block. I've been thinking for a long time to build my motor but I was never able to save the money needed to do it, and now it looks like I will be able to put some money aside every month, expecially once my other Cobalt will be sold. I'm thinking about pros and cons of each, that's why I would appreciate some input from the guys that have either zzp's or autowerks' engine.
Let's start by saying that ZZP's long block would cost $ 7,200 (the price includes the ATI SFI turbo balancer), while the AutoWerks' long block is $ 7,700 (to which it has to be added the cost of the turbo balancer, so more or less we are looking at a difference of $ 1,000 to $ 1,200 between the two engines).
So the Autowerks engine is more expensive but I like the fact that I can customize the engine the way I want it, I spoke to omiotek a few times and he said that if I want they can replace the valves and their valve springs with the ones of my choice, which would be either Supertech or Ferrea (most likely Ferrea).
On the other hand, what I didn't like about ZZP is that it looks like their built can't be changed. I've asked them if the valves and valve springs of my choice can be installed and they basically said no. But the most important thing is that when I told them that I have the AutoWerks 5557 turbo kit, they told me that the best thing to do to run their block would be to take off my turbo kit and get theirs. Well, since I have no intention to spend $ 4k to buy something that I already have, I'm looking more at the AutoWerks engine.
Could you guys please give me some advices to help me pick the engine? As I said, right now my choice is 80% AutoWerks and 20% ZZP, but I would appreciate some input to help me decide better.
Thank you guys all in advance.
Christian
I was wondering how many of you have a zzp long block and how many have the AutoWerks long block. I've been thinking for a long time to build my motor but I was never able to save the money needed to do it, and now it looks like I will be able to put some money aside every month, expecially once my other Cobalt will be sold. I'm thinking about pros and cons of each, that's why I would appreciate some input from the guys that have either zzp's or autowerks' engine.
Let's start by saying that ZZP's long block would cost $ 7,200 (the price includes the ATI SFI turbo balancer), while the AutoWerks' long block is $ 7,700 (to which it has to be added the cost of the turbo balancer, so more or less we are looking at a difference of $ 1,000 to $ 1,200 between the two engines).
So the Autowerks engine is more expensive but I like the fact that I can customize the engine the way I want it, I spoke to omiotek a few times and he said that if I want they can replace the valves and their valve springs with the ones of my choice, which would be either Supertech or Ferrea (most likely Ferrea).
On the other hand, what I didn't like about ZZP is that it looks like their built can't be changed. I've asked them if the valves and valve springs of my choice can be installed and they basically said no. But the most important thing is that when I told them that I have the AutoWerks 5557 turbo kit, they told me that the best thing to do to run their block would be to take off my turbo kit and get theirs. Well, since I have no intention to spend $ 4k to buy something that I already have, I'm looking more at the AutoWerks engine.
Could you guys please give me some advices to help me pick the engine? As I said, right now my choice is 80% AutoWerks and 20% ZZP, but I would appreciate some input to help me decide better.
Thank you guys all in advance.
Christian
10-20-2013, 04:51 PM
#3
Does Autowerks cylinder hone for a legit piston to bore clearance? ZZP doesn't.
And for the price, either way I'd be doing gapless rings. Add $250ish
And make sure they either diamond grit lap the valves or get a proper angle valve job.
Compression and leakdown, for the $$$ you are spending both should be 100% perfect.
And for the price, either way I'd be doing gapless rings. Add $250ish
And make sure they either diamond grit lap the valves or get a proper angle valve job.
Compression and leakdown, for the $$$ you are spending both should be 100% perfect.
10-20-2013, 05:10 PM
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I'm sure that both companies will do a good job. I'm just trying to wonder why ZZP wouldn't let me use the valves and springs of my choice and expecially why they are telling me to use their turbo kit. I mean, I know they probably tested their engines with their turbo upgrade only, but to tell me to buy their turbo kit knowing that I already have one? That's why I'm having doubts about ZZP.
10-20-2013, 07:01 PM
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I have a built long block by Werks. I chose the components that I wanted and they put it together and installed it in the car. They also didn't tell me I needed I use one of their turbo kits, I almost went with a ZFR and they were cool with that, decided to go with their WR3 tho instead...
And I would look into their springs, I have them and never once have felt uncomfortable revving my engine out with them. As far as valves, pistons and all that, they will build it to spec. Realize that you are making a huge investment. Don't just make the choice because "everyone chooses them", make the choice with what you feel comfortable with. Wether that's building it yourself or sending it too a shop, it's a big investment and be 100% sure you are making the decision for yourself and not others
And I would look into their springs, I have them and never once have felt uncomfortable revving my engine out with them. As far as valves, pistons and all that, they will build it to spec. Realize that you are making a huge investment. Don't just make the choice because "everyone chooses them", make the choice with what you feel comfortable with. Wether that's building it yourself or sending it too a shop, it's a big investment and be 100% sure you are making the decision for yourself and not others
10-21-2013, 12:21 AM
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I have a built long block by Werks. I chose the components that I wanted and they put it together and installed it in the car. They also didn't tell me I needed I use one of their turbo kits, I almost went with a ZFR and they were cool with that, decided to go with their WR3 tho instead...
And I would look into their springs, I have them and never once have felt uncomfortable revving my engine out with them. As far as valves, pistons and all that, they will build it to spec. Realize that you are making a huge investment. Don't just make the choice because "everyone chooses them", make the choice with what you feel comfortable with. Wether that's building it yourself or sending it too a shop, it's a big investment and be 100% sure you are making the decision for yourself and not others
And I would look into their springs, I have them and never once have felt uncomfortable revving my engine out with them. As far as valves, pistons and all that, they will build it to spec. Realize that you are making a huge investment. Don't just make the choice because "everyone chooses them", make the choice with what you feel comfortable with. Wether that's building it yourself or sending it too a shop, it's a big investment and be 100% sure you are making the decision for yourself and not others
I'm just wondering the difference between the two engines as far as performance, but again, if ZZP wants me to buy what they want instead of what I want, then I'm going toward Pwerks definitely. Whatever company will build my engine, I will ship the car to them so they can run all the tests needed and do an accurate tune.
10-21-2013, 12:27 AM
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10-21-2013, 01:21 AM
#12
ZZP is good, I have over $10k in receipts from them including a forged short block.
Mr. B or Tjolley, (probably Mr. B as he is closer to you) has built many ecotecs and knows his machinist by name. Do you know who ZZP uses? It isn't in house, that much I know. Mr. B can source all your parts for you, probably better that he does as you admit to having no idea...he does.
Zoomer tends to chirp a bit, if you must go ZZP get a hold of Turbo Tim...he is much more customer friendly.
Mr. B or Tjolley, (probably Mr. B as he is closer to you) has built many ecotecs and knows his machinist by name. Do you know who ZZP uses? It isn't in house, that much I know. Mr. B can source all your parts for you, probably better that he does as you admit to having no idea...he does.
Zoomer tends to chirp a bit, if you must go ZZP get a hold of Turbo Tim...he is much more customer friendly.
10-21-2013, 01:40 AM
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ZZP is good, I have over $10k in receipts from them including a forged short block.
Mr. B or Tjolley, (probably Mr. B as he is closer to you) has built many ecotecs and knows his machinist by name. Do you know who ZZP uses? It isn't in house, that much I know. Mr. B can source all your parts for you, probably better that he does as you admit to having no idea...he does.
Zoomer tends to chirp a bit, if you must go ZZP get a hold of Turbo Tim...he is much more customer friendly.
Mr. B or Tjolley, (probably Mr. B as he is closer to you) has built many ecotecs and knows his machinist by name. Do you know who ZZP uses? It isn't in house, that much I know. Mr. B can source all your parts for you, probably better that he does as you admit to having no idea...he does.
Zoomer tends to chirp a bit, if you must go ZZP get a hold of Turbo Tim...he is much more customer friendly.
10-21-2013, 08:13 AM
#14
Part of the reason for not custom building could be price and hassle. If you buy a bunch of something you probably get a better price. You also know everything works together instead of someone else saying it does and finding out later it doesn't quite fit.
10-21-2013, 04:36 PM
#18
As an added bonus, you can pay as you go with a guy like Mr. B, no need to bring $5k in cash upfront when you drop off the car. he'll discuss what you want to accomplish, draw up a road map on how he'll get you there, and what $$$ will be due and when.
I dropped $5k upfront with ZZP, couldn't get a hold of them for 5 days, waited over a month, would have had to wait nearly 10 weeks had I ordered what I actually wanted, and then the block got lost in customs for 8 days due to a wrong phone number being written on the bill of lading.
Bigger names are not always better.
I dropped $5k upfront with ZZP, couldn't get a hold of them for 5 days, waited over a month, would have had to wait nearly 10 weeks had I ordered what I actually wanted, and then the block got lost in customs for 8 days due to a wrong phone number being written on the bill of lading.
Bigger names are not always better.
10-21-2013, 04:44 PM
#20
As an added bonus, you can pay as you go with a guy like Mr. B, no need to bring $5k in cash upfront when you drop off the car. he'll discuss what you want to accomplish, draw up a road map on how he'll get you there, and what $$$ will be due and when.
I dropped $5k upfront with ZZP, couldn't get a hold of them for 5 days, waited over a month, would have had to wait nearly 10 weeks had I ordered what I actually wanted, and then the block got lost in customs for 8 days due to a wrong phone number being written on the bill of lading.
Bigger names are not always better.
I dropped $5k upfront with ZZP, couldn't get a hold of them for 5 days, waited over a month, would have had to wait nearly 10 weeks had I ordered what I actually wanted, and then the block got lost in customs for 8 days due to a wrong phone number being written on the bill of lading.
Bigger names are not always better.
10-22-2013, 12:50 AM
#25
We are always ready to do builds when your ready. The blocks are machined and spec'd to your request however we wont do something we know or feel will not work in the favor of a customer to achieve a goal. For those that for some reason think we use Zzp blocks(was mentioned before in a different thread). We don't. IMA round if you need info I'm just staying clear of this thread so no pissing matches start.