My "Buy a LNF they said..." Problem/Build Thread.
Moderator
02-13-2015, 09:36 PM
#455
O-RING 3 Bar Map Sensor 12626998 ill put them here since that thread is locked maybe someone else could use it
02-16-2015, 10:28 AM
#460
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/08-1...-knock-315797/
At this point I am convinced all of the knock I have had and now have is false. I went to install my OTTP Stage 2 rotated mounts over the weekend. I pressed new bushings into them, but one crushed halfway in. So I put the better of the two old ones back in. I decided to just fill them with 3M Window Weld to make them solid. Fast forward to installing them and now I have up to 9.3 Kr in the mid RPM range. I wrapped all of my A/C lines in foam so they are not touching the charge pipes.
-The knock only happens in gear and all through about 2000 to 5000 RPM. If I free rev the car there is 0 knock.
-The knock is only seen in HPT; it does not show on the RPD at all.
Has anyone else experienced flase Kr with poly motor mounts?
My TOB is making a bunch of noise now and so is the clutch. I am thinking maybe the self adjuster on it broke free and is rattling around and/or the TOB is rattling as well. I guess I could imagine this noise being transferred to the motor when the clutch is disengaged. Maybe?
My HPFP seems to be REALLY loud. Like, I can hear the HPFP from a could 50 feet away. My FP is also lower the my desired FP. Could my HPFP be going bad? All of the noise be causing Kr?
Could the knock sensors be bad?
====
So after some searching I came across the idea of wrapping my knock sensors with Dynamat to isolate them from external noise. I see a lot of the g8, Grand Prix, W-body guys do this and swear that it works; apparently they have very sensitive knock sensors and loud transmissions. I think I am going to buy a couple new knock sensors and go that route.
====
My last resort, since I am sure it is all false, is disconnecting the knock sensors complete. The PCM will default to 12 degrees retard across the board. Shut off the codes and add 12 degrees across the board. Bam. Done. This is a dead last resort though and I am well aware that if something goes array it will be new engine time lol
At this point I am convinced all of the knock I have had and now have is false. I went to install my OTTP Stage 2 rotated mounts over the weekend. I pressed new bushings into them, but one crushed halfway in. So I put the better of the two old ones back in. I decided to just fill them with 3M Window Weld to make them solid. Fast forward to installing them and now I have up to 9.3 Kr in the mid RPM range. I wrapped all of my A/C lines in foam so they are not touching the charge pipes.
-The knock only happens in gear and all through about 2000 to 5000 RPM. If I free rev the car there is 0 knock.
-The knock is only seen in HPT; it does not show on the RPD at all.
Has anyone else experienced flase Kr with poly motor mounts?
My TOB is making a bunch of noise now and so is the clutch. I am thinking maybe the self adjuster on it broke free and is rattling around and/or the TOB is rattling as well. I guess I could imagine this noise being transferred to the motor when the clutch is disengaged. Maybe?
My HPFP seems to be REALLY loud. Like, I can hear the HPFP from a could 50 feet away. My FP is also lower the my desired FP. Could my HPFP be going bad? All of the noise be causing Kr?
Could the knock sensors be bad?
====
So after some searching I came across the idea of wrapping my knock sensors with Dynamat to isolate them from external noise. I see a lot of the g8, Grand Prix, W-body guys do this and swear that it works; apparently they have very sensitive knock sensors and loud transmissions. I think I am going to buy a couple new knock sensors and go that route.
====
My last resort, since I am sure it is all false, is disconnecting the knock sensors complete. The PCM will default to 12 degrees retard across the board. Shut off the codes and add 12 degrees across the board. Bam. Done. This is a dead last resort though and I am well aware that if something goes array it will be new engine time lol
Last edited by blueLNFftw; 02-16-2015 at 10:35 AM.
02-17-2015, 08:30 AM
#462
https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/08-1...-knock-315797/
At this point I am convinced all of the knock I have had and now have is false. I went to install my OTTP Stage 2 rotated mounts over the weekend. I pressed new bushings into them, but one crushed halfway in. So I put the better of the two old ones back in. I decided to just fill them with 3M Window Weld to make them solid. Fast forward to installing them and now I have up to 9.3 Kr in the mid RPM range. I wrapped all of my A/C lines in foam so they are not touching the charge pipes.
-The knock only happens in gear and all through about 2000 to 5000 RPM. If I free rev the car there is 0 knock.
-The knock is only seen in HPT; it does not show on the RPD at all.
Has anyone else experienced flase Kr with poly motor mounts?
My TOB is making a bunch of noise now and so is the clutch. I am thinking maybe the self adjuster on it broke free and is rattling around and/or the TOB is rattling as well. I guess I could imagine this noise being transferred to the motor when the clutch is disengaged. Maybe?
My HPFP seems to be REALLY loud. Like, I can hear the HPFP from a could 50 feet away. My FP is also lower the my desired FP. Could my HPFP be going bad? All of the noise be causing Kr?
Could the knock sensors be bad?
====
So after some searching I came across the idea of wrapping my knock sensors with Dynamat to isolate them from external noise. I see a lot of the g8, Grand Prix, W-body guys do this and swear that it works; apparently they have very sensitive knock sensors and loud transmissions. I think I am going to buy a couple new knock sensors and go that route.
====
My last resort, since I am sure it is all false, is disconnecting the knock sensors complete. The PCM will default to 12 degrees retard across the board. Shut off the codes and add 12 degrees across the board. Bam. Done. This is a dead last resort though and I am well aware that if something goes array it will be new engine time lol
At this point I am convinced all of the knock I have had and now have is false. I went to install my OTTP Stage 2 rotated mounts over the weekend. I pressed new bushings into them, but one crushed halfway in. So I put the better of the two old ones back in. I decided to just fill them with 3M Window Weld to make them solid. Fast forward to installing them and now I have up to 9.3 Kr in the mid RPM range. I wrapped all of my A/C lines in foam so they are not touching the charge pipes.
-The knock only happens in gear and all through about 2000 to 5000 RPM. If I free rev the car there is 0 knock.
-The knock is only seen in HPT; it does not show on the RPD at all.
Has anyone else experienced flase Kr with poly motor mounts?
My TOB is making a bunch of noise now and so is the clutch. I am thinking maybe the self adjuster on it broke free and is rattling around and/or the TOB is rattling as well. I guess I could imagine this noise being transferred to the motor when the clutch is disengaged. Maybe?
My HPFP seems to be REALLY loud. Like, I can hear the HPFP from a could 50 feet away. My FP is also lower the my desired FP. Could my HPFP be going bad? All of the noise be causing Kr?
Could the knock sensors be bad?
====
So after some searching I came across the idea of wrapping my knock sensors with Dynamat to isolate them from external noise. I see a lot of the g8, Grand Prix, W-body guys do this and swear that it works; apparently they have very sensitive knock sensors and loud transmissions. I think I am going to buy a couple new knock sensors and go that route.
====
My last resort, since I am sure it is all false, is disconnecting the knock sensors complete. The PCM will default to 12 degrees retard across the board. Shut off the codes and add 12 degrees across the board. Bam. Done. This is a dead last resort though and I am well aware that if something goes array it will be new engine time lol
So thanks to HPT forums I came across an interesting topic about the LNF in the kappa cars. It was all about positioning the knock sensors.
LNF False Knock- Discovery might lead to cure???
I'm not ready to break out the champagne yet but NO FALSE KNOCK FROM FRONT SENSOR ON LAST 3 DRIVES!!! (knocking on wood)
Last night I rotated the front knock sensor so it was exactly 90 degrees from vertical with the lead pointing forward. This is 180 degrees from where it was from the factory. Before I moved it I checked the torque, swear to god when I got my torque wrench adjusted up to where the bolt just started to turn I looked down and it was at 19 ft/lbs! I torqued it back to 19-20 ft/lbs after rotating it so the torque should be close to the same.
Drove it for half and hour last night and the log showed no KR from cyls 1&2. Drove it back and forth from work today and still nothing that I would call false knock from 1&2. I did get 3 degrees from cyl 1 on a hard run up to 6k, it definitely looked like real knock. Meanwhile cyls 3&4 are still showing a bunch of false knock, the lead on that sensor is pointing down, tonight I'll rotate that one to 90 from vert with the lead facing forward. If the false knock on cyls 3&4 go away also I'm going to be jumping up and down with joy!
BTW I put a knock sensor I had in my vise, put a dvom on it and tried to get some sort of consistent test I could use on the car, but judging from the erratic voltages I was getting it didn't really look like it was worth messing with. So I busted open the knock sensor to see what's inside! Basically just two thin metal plates with ceramic in the middle. Didn't really see what could make it directional, and even some info I found from Bosch says they can be mounted in any position. ???
Crossing fingers... I'll let everyone know what happens when I rotate the back one.
Last night I rotated the front knock sensor so it was exactly 90 degrees from vertical with the lead pointing forward. This is 180 degrees from where it was from the factory. Before I moved it I checked the torque, swear to god when I got my torque wrench adjusted up to where the bolt just started to turn I looked down and it was at 19 ft/lbs! I torqued it back to 19-20 ft/lbs after rotating it so the torque should be close to the same.
Drove it for half and hour last night and the log showed no KR from cyls 1&2. Drove it back and forth from work today and still nothing that I would call false knock from 1&2. I did get 3 degrees from cyl 1 on a hard run up to 6k, it definitely looked like real knock. Meanwhile cyls 3&4 are still showing a bunch of false knock, the lead on that sensor is pointing down, tonight I'll rotate that one to 90 from vert with the lead facing forward. If the false knock on cyls 3&4 go away also I'm going to be jumping up and down with joy!
BTW I put a knock sensor I had in my vise, put a dvom on it and tried to get some sort of consistent test I could use on the car, but judging from the erratic voltages I was getting it didn't really look like it was worth messing with. So I busted open the knock sensor to see what's inside! Basically just two thin metal plates with ceramic in the middle. Didn't really see what could make it directional, and even some info I found from Bosch says they can be mounted in any position. ???
Crossing fingers... I'll let everyone know what happens when I rotate the back one.
======
On top of clocking the knock sensors last night I replaced both of my T-map sensors. Logged the car some more and it appears everything is all better. I still get false knock on low RPM high load situations, but it is sporadic and less that 3 degree, only on number 4 cylinder. I can hear the clutch chattering when it happens usually. I am going to clock the knock sensor 180 degrees and see if that takes care of it. Otherwise, it will have to wait until I do the clutch again in a couple weeks.
02-17-2015, 12:35 PM
#463
I installed OTTP Stage 2 mounts on the car. I filled the voided bushings with #M Window Weld Poly to stiffen them up. The result is a poly roated mount that I would guess was about 65-70a in firmness. You can definitely feel them when you start the car, but cruising they arent bad. Dash isnt rattling, but the streering wheel does a little bit.
Also, I modified the Ingalls to fit my LNF. It is a tight squeeze, but it works. You have to cut about 3/8" of the corner of the engine side bracket so that it does not hit the mount.
Ingalls and OTTP S2 > Stock LNF. Wheel hop in 1st and 2nd is gone.
I also deleted the vacuum tank. I had to take it out to adjust the knock sensors and since it was a pain, I left it out. No ill effects, but you will notice the brake pedal has a slightly lighter feel. I only noticed because I was looking for it. It throws no codes.
The KY stopped slipping and all of the sudden got firm lol. The PP they modify is definitely junk, but with it holding I am planning to install the ZFR on the 28th. I will run it about 25psi on a boost ramp. Around 350whp. It will be installed with all -AN lines and be on the stock exhaust. 93 pump only.
====
In other news I was up at my buddy's house a couple nights ago to grab some emblems for Sign Something. He has an 06 LBM fully optioned LSJ. We pulled the entire front end and the driveline a couple weeks ago. He is finishing up the gen 3 2.1 motor. Forged internals. It is mostly together, timed, and has the manifolds and turbo on it. s252et with a pieced together induction system. Currently he is waiting on Exedy to get back to him on the rebuild for his Hyper Single. Once he has that we will be installing the entire driveline through the bottom already bolted together. Goal for this car is a minimum of 500whp daily driven. I will have to post up some pics of this, it is a mightly pretty engine. Hopefully we will be installing the driveline first weekend in March.
We are hoping to have my ZFR car and his s252 car at the Auto Combine 3rd weekend of March. He and I have not both had running Cobalts for a solid 8 months now lol.
Also, I modified the Ingalls to fit my LNF. It is a tight squeeze, but it works. You have to cut about 3/8" of the corner of the engine side bracket so that it does not hit the mount.
Ingalls and OTTP S2 > Stock LNF. Wheel hop in 1st and 2nd is gone.
I also deleted the vacuum tank. I had to take it out to adjust the knock sensors and since it was a pain, I left it out. No ill effects, but you will notice the brake pedal has a slightly lighter feel. I only noticed because I was looking for it. It throws no codes.
The KY stopped slipping and all of the sudden got firm lol. The PP they modify is definitely junk, but with it holding I am planning to install the ZFR on the 28th. I will run it about 25psi on a boost ramp. Around 350whp. It will be installed with all -AN lines and be on the stock exhaust. 93 pump only.
====
In other news I was up at my buddy's house a couple nights ago to grab some emblems for Sign Something. He has an 06 LBM fully optioned LSJ. We pulled the entire front end and the driveline a couple weeks ago. He is finishing up the gen 3 2.1 motor. Forged internals. It is mostly together, timed, and has the manifolds and turbo on it. s252et with a pieced together induction system. Currently he is waiting on Exedy to get back to him on the rebuild for his Hyper Single. Once he has that we will be installing the entire driveline through the bottom already bolted together. Goal for this car is a minimum of 500whp daily driven. I will have to post up some pics of this, it is a mightly pretty engine. Hopefully we will be installing the driveline first weekend in March.
We are hoping to have my ZFR car and his s252 car at the Auto Combine 3rd weekend of March. He and I have not both had running Cobalts for a solid 8 months now lol.
Last edited by blueLNFftw; 02-17-2015 at 12:41 PM.
02-18-2015, 11:12 AM
#466
Senior Member
02-18-2015, 11:14 AM
#467
^^
Do this. I had my stock plugs gapped at .032 when I put the ZFR on and i got Massive misfire on Cylinder 3 when tuning.
gapped to .028 and it didn't have any issues
Do this. I had my stock plugs gapped at .032 when I put the ZFR on and i got Massive misfire on Cylinder 3 when tuning.
gapped to .028 and it didn't have any issues
02-18-2015, 11:45 AM
#468
Think I am getting blow out or something? I dont know what they feels or looks like.
I do have an occasional miss at idle. Just one.
Plugs have maybe 1000 miles on them.
I do have an occasional miss at idle. Just one.
Plugs have maybe 1000 miles on them.
Last edited by blueLNFftw; 02-18-2015 at 11:45 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
02-18-2015, 11:48 AM
#469
Senior Member
Minor misfires. Anything other than the OEM AC Delco plugs causes misfires on these cars every time. Gaping them at 0.028" vs 0.035" will stop blowout at higher cylinder pressures.
