Rear Brakes FILE COMPLAINT HERE SO WE CAN GET A RECALL
05-24-2011, 02:32 PM
#652
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I would say premature and rapid wearing of brakes would be a safety issue. My brakes were perfect when I put new tires on less then 5000 miles ago. So almost out of nowhere I went from better then average wear, to where I am now. It's like saying that the power steering recall was not needed, since you can still control the car. Just because the brakes technically work, doesn't mean there isn't a safety issue.
05-24-2011, 02:34 PM
#653
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True, I did forget about this... Like you said, I need the manager there for this... Even then I will probably need to go over their head to GM customer service or the regional manager etc.
05-24-2011, 02:48 PM
#654
at least try to give the local dealer a shot - I mean it is within their capacity to do work under warranty that isn't technically warranty or recall work... hense my brake job.
if you have couple local GM dealers, and the first one seems to brush you off, try another one;
if I had specifics about this tech article I'd give it to you, but I'm pretty sure they didn't give it to me for a good reason - because this is not a recall, and this is currently only an issue with a small fraction of the 2008-2010 cobalt production run - many of which are already on aftermarket/replacement brake components.
05-24-2011, 03:01 PM
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if you have couple local GM dealers, and the first one seems to brush you off, try another one;
if I had specifics about this tech article I'd give it to you, but I'm pretty sure they didn't give it to me for a good reason - because this is not a recall, and this is currently only an issue with a small fraction of the 2008-2010 cobalt production run - many of which are already on aftermarket/replacement brake components.
if I had specifics about this tech article I'd give it to you, but I'm pretty sure they didn't give it to me for a good reason - because this is not a recall, and this is currently only an issue with a small fraction of the 2008-2010 cobalt production run - many of which are already on aftermarket/replacement brake components.
05-24-2011, 03:06 PM
#656
I would say premature and rapid wearing of brakes would be a safety issue. My brakes were perfect when I put new tires on less then 5000 miles ago. So almost out of nowhere I went from better then average wear, to where I am now. It's like saying that the power steering recall was not needed, since you can still control the car. Just because the brakes technically work, doesn't mean there isn't a safety issue.
05-24-2011, 04:43 PM
#657
but when something attributed to the rear brake design causes the rear inner pads to wipe out, while the outer pads are at roughly 80-90%;
then we have a problem in the design of the brakes.... this might not be a saftey issue persay, but then when the rears are metal on metal, and wearing out the inside of the rotor the whole rear brake system then is not functioning properly, and then it becomes a saftey issue...
but why would you come and post here trying to poo-poo any chance of cars getting something done under warranty?
I know a local who has an '08, and went through alot to get this flagged as an issue - but with only roughly 1700 Cobalt SS's made in 2008, versus the thousands upon thousands of other 2008 & prior non SS/TC's built - at that time it would have been a total uphill battle.
I read that many here just go to aftermarket parts and are done with it;
I would have preferred to avaiod going this route incase anything even remotely rear brake related came up before warranty's end that might negate me being covered for having aftermarket parts installed...
eg: SuperSlow trying to get replacement of the caliper dust boot for it being defective, but getting denied because he has aftermarket pads & rotors in his car. Is his a safety issue? - nope, but is very likely is a defective sub-component that would probably be replaced if he was running stock GM brake parts...
And how many people had to fix this out of pocket years prior to GM making an official recall?
Prior to the recall would you have touted that they should not have had anything covered because it was a wear item./.. I mean everything wears out!
IF the design leads to premature failure, then something is wrong.
05-24-2011, 05:20 PM
#658
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granted that in an ideal situation, that you normally would be sitting at someothing akin to 80% front versus rear fopr stopping;
but when something attributed to the rear brake design causes the rear inner pads to wipe out, while the outer pads are at roughly 80-90%;
then we have a problem in the design of the brakes.... Prior to the recall would you have touted that they should not have had anything covered because it was a wear item./.. I mean everything wears out!
IF the design leads to premature failure, then something is wrong.
but when something attributed to the rear brake design causes the rear inner pads to wipe out, while the outer pads are at roughly 80-90%;
then we have a problem in the design of the brakes.... Prior to the recall would you have touted that they should not have had anything covered because it was a wear item./.. I mean everything wears out!
IF the design leads to premature failure, then something is wrong.
Thing is it's NOT a *design* flaw. It's the the pads. Some will say unlubed pins...it's not. I have documented a Volvo rear caliper (identical to ours) being routinely serviced and the pic I posted clearly shows that the pins were NOT LUBED! They don't have our problem. The pads disentegrate and chunk up..screwing up the rotors and contaminating the pins with crap. I have ceramics on now for over 5K mi and the new rotors still have the cross hatch marks on em! Smooth as silk too.
Bottom line...GM will never waiver from the *pads wearing out* response and so we'll never get this problem properly addressed. Fortuneatly it's an easy inexpensive fix. My parts were $150 total for the rears..rotors and pads.
05-24-2011, 05:38 PM
#659
Good points and I understand your frustration since I just replaced my rotors and pads.
Thing is it's NOT a *design* flaw. It's the the pads. Some will say unlubed pins...it's not. I have documented a Volvo rear caliper (identical to ours) being routinely serviced and the pic I posted clearly shows that the pins were NOT LUBED! They don't have our problem. The pads disentegrate and chunk up..screwing up the rotors and contaminating the pins with crap. I have ceramics on now for over 5K mi and the new rotors still have the cross hatch marks on em! Smooth as silk too.
Bottom line...GM will never waiver from the *pads wearing out* response and so we'll never get this problem properly addressed. Fortuneatly it's an easy inexpensive fix. My parts were $150 total for the rears..rotors and pads.
Thing is it's NOT a *design* flaw. It's the the pads. Some will say unlubed pins...it's not. I have documented a Volvo rear caliper (identical to ours) being routinely serviced and the pic I posted clearly shows that the pins were NOT LUBED! They don't have our problem. The pads disentegrate and chunk up..screwing up the rotors and contaminating the pins with crap. I have ceramics on now for over 5K mi and the new rotors still have the cross hatch marks on em! Smooth as silk too.
Bottom line...GM will never waiver from the *pads wearing out* response and so we'll never get this problem properly addressed. Fortuneatly it's an easy inexpensive fix. My parts were $150 total for the rears..rotors and pads.
All I read on here related to pads/breaks are "Hawks-fanboy" type posts...
Did you retain using a ceramic pad?
What brand?
I noticed that the aftermarket (OE ceramic) pad offered by the local (auto parts plus fanchisee) is a pad that has a serration the dead center of the pad (from left to right) - which is somethign absent from the GM-OE pad...
I saw that there were Volvo V50's that use the same caliper, and that did make me scratch my head as to exactly why we hear nothing of the other applications for these calipers having issues - but never attempted looking further into this as it would be pretty much a theoretical exercise on my part...
05-24-2011, 05:56 PM
#660
granted that in an ideal situation, that you normally would be sitting at someothing akin to 80% front versus rear fopr stopping;
but when something attributed to the rear brake design causes the rear inner pads to wipe out, while the outer pads are at roughly 80-90%;
then we have a problem in the design of the brakes.... this might not be a saftey issue persay, but then when the rears are metal on metal, and wearing out the inside of the rotor the whole rear brake system then is not functioning properly, and then it becomes a saftey issue...
but why would you come and post here trying to poo-poo any chance of cars getting something done under warranty?
I know a local who has an '08, and went through alot to get this flagged as an issue - but with only roughly 1700 Cobalt SS's made in 2008, versus the thousands upon thousands of other 2008 & prior non SS/TC's built - at that time it would have been a total uphill battle.
I read that many here just go to aftermarket parts and are done with it;
I would have preferred to avaiod going this route incase anything even remotely rear brake related came up before warranty's end that might negate me being covered for having aftermarket parts installed...
eg: SuperSlow trying to get replacement of the caliper dust boot for it being defective, but getting denied because he has aftermarket pads & rotors in his car. Is his a safety issue? - nope, but is very likely is a defective sub-component that would probably be replaced if he was running stock GM brake parts...
And how many people had to fix this out of pocket years prior to GM making an official recall?
Prior to the recall would you have touted that they should not have had anything covered because it was a wear item./.. I mean everything wears out!
IF the design leads to premature failure, then something is wrong.
but when something attributed to the rear brake design causes the rear inner pads to wipe out, while the outer pads are at roughly 80-90%;
then we have a problem in the design of the brakes.... this might not be a saftey issue persay, but then when the rears are metal on metal, and wearing out the inside of the rotor the whole rear brake system then is not functioning properly, and then it becomes a saftey issue...
but why would you come and post here trying to poo-poo any chance of cars getting something done under warranty?
I know a local who has an '08, and went through alot to get this flagged as an issue - but with only roughly 1700 Cobalt SS's made in 2008, versus the thousands upon thousands of other 2008 & prior non SS/TC's built - at that time it would have been a total uphill battle.
I read that many here just go to aftermarket parts and are done with it;
I would have preferred to avaiod going this route incase anything even remotely rear brake related came up before warranty's end that might negate me being covered for having aftermarket parts installed...
eg: SuperSlow trying to get replacement of the caliper dust boot for it being defective, but getting denied because he has aftermarket pads & rotors in his car. Is his a safety issue? - nope, but is very likely is a defective sub-component that would probably be replaced if he was running stock GM brake parts...
And how many people had to fix this out of pocket years prior to GM making an official recall?
Prior to the recall would you have touted that they should not have had anything covered because it was a wear item./.. I mean everything wears out!
IF the design leads to premature failure, then something is wrong.
Why are you talking about warranty now? You were talking about recalls and so was I. They aren't the same thing. Warranty has nothing to do with a recall. Warranty is there to fix a defect with the car. Recalls fix safety issues. Depending on the mileage and wear this most defiantly could be a warranty issue but its still not a safety issue. I got mine fixed at 22k under warranty because it had abnormal wear. I walked into a dealer said hey my brakes aren't wearing normally. They looked at them, agreed, and a week later when the parts arrived I had new pads and rotors.
If you fixed the steering before the recall came out you can submit your repair costs and get reimbursed for it. Steering failing isn't a wear item brakes are.
05-24-2011, 06:10 PM
#661
I read your whole reply, but this first bit is where I find fault in your locig;
if your logic is flawed from teh start, nothing there-after can hold because it's flawed to beginwith;
If the brakes functioned properly then this would not be an issue;
In fact the brakes do not function normally or (as it would be more appropriately coined) properly, becasue the inner and outer pads do not wear evenly.
When I had a brief discussion with the assistant service manager at my servicing dealer, this was just about exactly what he said;
I could not have agreed more with what the (assistant) service manager said, and was quite happy to hear him say this - otherwise I was prepared to do a brake job on my own dime;
If the inner pads are wiped, you need to immediately do something about it before it becomes a legitimate safety issue (due to a malfunctioning braking system);
The hinge point in which this becomes as you coined it an "issue" versus a "safety issue" is the point in time wherein the inner pads wear out... before that point in time, as you pointed out, this is not a safety issue.
In my case, the dealer in fact deemed that something was wrong and apparently even though there is no recall there is discussion (on one level or another) within GM, and in the end, I did have my rear brakes done under the umbrella of my bumper to bumper warranty (which covers just about any defective item) ~ it was most likely billed to GM in a manner that placed it under a customer-courtesy service job.
So although we do appear to be arguing, I feel we are in the end on the same side of things... albeit with a slightly different perspective.
PS - I have a feeling that the unofficial GM fix, is to replace the OE ceramic pad with a semi-metallic pad ~ becasue I'm hearing some rear brake noise now, as though I have semi-metallic pads now...
if your logic is flawed from teh start, nothing there-after can hold because it's flawed to beginwith;
In fact the brakes do not function normally or (as it would be more appropriately coined) properly, becasue the inner and outer pads do not wear evenly.
When I had a brief discussion with the assistant service manager at my servicing dealer, this was just about exactly what he said;
Even if there isn't a recall, if the pads are wearing ins a grossly uneven manor, then it indicates something is wrong, in which case we should have a look at it
If the inner pads are wiped, you need to immediately do something about it before it becomes a legitimate safety issue (due to a malfunctioning braking system);
The hinge point in which this becomes as you coined it an "issue" versus a "safety issue" is the point in time wherein the inner pads wear out... before that point in time, as you pointed out, this is not a safety issue.
In my case, the dealer in fact deemed that something was wrong and apparently even though there is no recall there is discussion (on one level or another) within GM, and in the end, I did have my rear brakes done under the umbrella of my bumper to bumper warranty (which covers just about any defective item) ~ it was most likely billed to GM in a manner that placed it under a customer-courtesy service job.
So although we do appear to be arguing, I feel we are in the end on the same side of things... albeit with a slightly different perspective.
PS - I have a feeling that the unofficial GM fix, is to replace the OE ceramic pad with a semi-metallic pad ~ becasue I'm hearing some rear brake noise now, as though I have semi-metallic pads now...
05-26-2011, 01:40 PM
#662
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Sorry I havent read through every post, but I took my 09 ss sedan in today and explained to the dealer that my brakes where starting to get squeeky so I pulled off all four tires and inspected them and only found the floating pins to be dry with no lube so I lubed the pins then when I went to put some lube on the back of pads I found the inner pads on the rear to be very thin compared to the outter pads, and asked them to just tell me whats going going on and explain why this is happening,
the service writer said the tech will do some reaserch through gm and figure it out as he didnt like how uneven they are wearing, they found the rear pads are pads that will work but are not correct and that there is updated pads for the rears, so they replaced them and resurfaced my rotors under warranty... then I asked if I have a warranty on my rear brakes now as they repalced them, and the answer was YES... and they are taking care of the charge air cooler recall/TSB and said after that my car will be up to date.... ps I my odometer rolled over to 21,000 in their service bay.... again I'm sorry if this info was already posted as I dont really have the time to read all post since my last, hope this helps some of you out! (BTW they stopped squeeking after i lubed them and i took the car in today which is about 2 weeks later)
the service writer said the tech will do some reaserch through gm and figure it out as he didnt like how uneven they are wearing, they found the rear pads are pads that will work but are not correct and that there is updated pads for the rears, so they replaced them and resurfaced my rotors under warranty... then I asked if I have a warranty on my rear brakes now as they repalced them, and the answer was YES... and they are taking care of the charge air cooler recall/TSB and said after that my car will be up to date.... ps I my odometer rolled over to 21,000 in their service bay.... again I'm sorry if this info was already posted as I dont really have the time to read all post since my last, hope this helps some of you out! (BTW they stopped squeeking after i lubed them and i took the car in today which is about 2 weeks later)
Last edited by SS/TCCobalt; 05-26-2011 at 02:08 PM. Reason: forgot to mention
05-26-2011, 10:33 PM
#666
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Bought my car a little over a month ago. 09 with 5k on it. It now has 8k and the rear brakes are growling when I stop. I had the dealership look at them when they were doing the steering recall on it and they said they are grooving the rotors already. They ordered the parts to replace the pads and rotors and are going to do it under warranty.
05-26-2011, 11:30 PM
#667
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Buy better brakes or talk to the dealership about them putting on the updated rear pads under warranty or atleast have them verify that the updated pads are already on....
05-27-2011, 10:53 AM
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I haven't had any problems with my brembos pads or rotors I know brembo gave me gm's part number when I asked for a part number from them. And when my car was in yesterday they only mentioned an updated rear pad and did all the work under warranty and that was fine by me since I don't have money (damn disney world vacation!) for some nice hawks or ebc pads right now, which is defenitly a better way to go IMO.... The dealer just bought me some time to save up.... I'm still want better quality pads all the way around...
05-27-2011, 12:45 PM
#672
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Can someone give me more info on these updated pads? If they have changed the pads they obviously know there was a problem with the old ones. If they knew there was a problem they should be replacing my pads and rotors under warranty even though I am outside the 12k miles.
06-01-2011, 09:25 PM
#673
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Holy crap old thread is old. Just an fyi: the stock pads are leaps and bounds better than hawk/ ebc. Ebc especially are garbage on our cars. Deltas are too heavy. Ebc's are for light cars.
06-02-2011, 10:31 PM
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Well, I just took my car to get an oil change this Monday and asked them to look at the rear pads. Guess what?! Rear pads are 'glazed' or so says the service department. I only have 19K miles on it. They are replacing the pads under warranty though. Hopefully I won't have this issue again... *skeptical*
06-03-2011, 12:29 AM
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I just hit 8,000 miles on my car tonight and the brakes have been squealing since 400 miles; I lubed the pins on my rear calipers and replaced all pads/rotors with hawk pads and r1 rotors about 2 months ago....still squealing its ass off
FML
FML