Bypass Valve fix/Possible Boost Mod
10-07-2009 | 12:47 PM
#26
you can unplug both, but then you need a new vacuum line goin from the intake manifold to the solenoid, about 5inches will do (thats what she said) i did this almost a year ago, zero ill effects, and zero loss in mileage aswell for those concerned.
10-07-2009 | 02:25 PM
#28
Senior Member
Joined: 03-05-09
Posts: 1,028
Likes: 2
From: Des Moines, IA
I actually did this on my car when I first bought it after seeing it on the Solstice forums. Pretty sure I've seen other posts on here about it too. Over there they call it the EDAL mod, and I think its a sticky even.
Personally... I didn't like the way it drove after the change. I could see it being better on a Kappa, but on the Delta it seems to decrease the boost threshold rpm ... which is already a problem on this FWD platform. In general it seemed to make the car a lot more touchy on the throttle. After a week I put it back to stock and I've never tried it again since buying HPT. It did NOT increase the boost pressure of my car (nor would I expect it to, unless the BPV was never fully closing) and only changed the vacuum -> boost drivability.
Its no big deal to do at all though so don't be scared to try... won't hurt anything. See if it suits your driving taste.
FWIW, I might try it again. I could see issues keeping the BPV shut at times if the ECU is fiddling around with it all the time.
Personally... I didn't like the way it drove after the change. I could see it being better on a Kappa, but on the Delta it seems to decrease the boost threshold rpm ... which is already a problem on this FWD platform. In general it seemed to make the car a lot more touchy on the throttle. After a week I put it back to stock and I've never tried it again since buying HPT. It did NOT increase the boost pressure of my car (nor would I expect it to, unless the BPV was never fully closing) and only changed the vacuum -> boost drivability.
Its no big deal to do at all though so don't be scared to try... won't hurt anything. See if it suits your driving taste.
FWIW, I might try it again. I could see issues keeping the BPV shut at times if the ECU is fiddling around with it all the time.
10-07-2009 | 03:31 PM
#29
Senior Member
Joined: 08-05-08
Posts: 1,460
Likes: 1
From: Iowa
I actually did this on my car when I first bought it after seeing it on the Solstice forums. Pretty sure I've seen other posts on here about it too. Over there they call it the EDAL mod, and I think its a sticky even.
Personally... I didn't like the way it drove after the change. I could see it being better on a Kappa, but on the Delta it seems to decrease the boost threshold rpm ... which is already a problem on this FWD platform. In general it seemed to make the car a lot more touchy on the throttle. After a week I put it back to stock and I've never tried it again since buying HPT. It did NOT increase the boost pressure of my car (nor would I expect it to, unless the BPV was never fully closing) and only changed the vacuum -> boost drivability.
Its no big deal to do at all though so don't be scared to try... won't hurt anything. See if it suits your driving taste.
FWIW, I might try it again. I could see issues keeping the BPV shut at times if the ECU is fiddling around with it all the time.
Personally... I didn't like the way it drove after the change. I could see it being better on a Kappa, but on the Delta it seems to decrease the boost threshold rpm ... which is already a problem on this FWD platform. In general it seemed to make the car a lot more touchy on the throttle. After a week I put it back to stock and I've never tried it again since buying HPT. It did NOT increase the boost pressure of my car (nor would I expect it to, unless the BPV was never fully closing) and only changed the vacuum -> boost drivability.
Its no big deal to do at all though so don't be scared to try... won't hurt anything. See if it suits your driving taste.
FWIW, I might try it again. I could see issues keeping the BPV shut at times if the ECU is fiddling around with it all the time.
Here's a link to their sticky for the rest of you. It describes it and gives step by step. http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f...lag-mod-31601/
10-07-2009 | 03:45 PM
#30
I THINK this is what he's talking about. (also waiting for pics)
The two actually circled are the ones to disconnect and bypass. I'm not 100% though...
EDIT: I got brave and tried it out. After looking at the picture I did and reading his description I couldn't see it being different.
CONFIRMED: According to the gauge it appears that I gained in the ballpark of 1 psi. It's not much at all I know, but it was free. Can't argue with that. I am BSR tuned by the way.
Will you feel it in the seat of your pants? No.
I'm unsure about spool up response. I can't tell if it has changed. However, the BPV seems to react quicker and also dump the pressure faster. Makes sense too if you think about it. The tank is just more volume for vacuum to be pulled on. With only a hose in it's place the reaction is quicker. (MUCH less volume) Seems like it's a bit more audible for this reason but I'm unsure. It gives me the impression this vacuum tank was designed pretty much just for the NLS feature. I don't use NLS but I did a 2-3 NLS while I was out and it worked just fine.
So just take a single piece of hose and run it from the top of the manifold to the solenoid. (join the two circled with a single piece)
No CEL's or anything. I'm gonna keep it.
Thanks to the OP for sharing! Can't wait until more people try it to get their impressions. I just did a quick 10 minute drive.
Oh, and there was a thread quite a while ago of some people with aggressive tunes experiencing part throttle compressor surge. I have a a feeling this just might be a cure if not help quite a lot. Just a feeling...
The two actually circled are the ones to disconnect and bypass. I'm not 100% though...
EDIT: I got brave and tried it out. After looking at the picture I did and reading his description I couldn't see it being different.
CONFIRMED: According to the gauge it appears that I gained in the ballpark of 1 psi. It's not much at all I know, but it was free. Can't argue with that. I am BSR tuned by the way.
Will you feel it in the seat of your pants? No.
I'm unsure about spool up response. I can't tell if it has changed. However, the BPV seems to react quicker and also dump the pressure faster. Makes sense too if you think about it. The tank is just more volume for vacuum to be pulled on. With only a hose in it's place the reaction is quicker. (MUCH less volume) Seems like it's a bit more audible for this reason but I'm unsure. It gives me the impression this vacuum tank was designed pretty much just for the NLS feature. I don't use NLS but I did a 2-3 NLS while I was out and it worked just fine.
So just take a single piece of hose and run it from the top of the manifold to the solenoid. (join the two circled with a single piece)
No CEL's or anything. I'm gonna keep it.
Thanks to the OP for sharing! Can't wait until more people try it to get their impressions. I just did a quick 10 minute drive.
Oh, and there was a thread quite a while ago of some people with aggressive tunes experiencing part throttle compressor surge. I have a a feeling this just might be a cure if not help quite a lot. Just a feeling...
so i'm comparing the two green circle in the pictures to the one in solstice forums. so you will need to get two cap to plug in where the two green circles are GOING to, but DON"T plug the two green circle. then you plug the solienod where the bpv hose is coming from, like the pictures shown in slostice forums. then you just connect the three hose together. and this is what i'm getting at, and please correct me if 'm wrong.
10-07-2009 | 04:28 PM
#32
^ never mind, just connect the two green circle together.
now my question is that is it possible to remove the black box? i can barely see from the top of the motor, maybe you need to take it out from the bottom?
now my question is that is it possible to remove the black box? i can barely see from the top of the motor, maybe you need to take it out from the bottom?
now my question is that is it possible to remove the black box? i can barely see from the top of the motor, maybe you need to take it out from the bottom?
now my question is that is it possible to remove the black box? i can barely see from the top of the motor, maybe you need to take it out from the bottom?
Last edited by fakameanrepresent; 10-07-2009 at 04:28 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
10-07-2009 | 04:33 PM
#33
Senior Member
Joined: 08-05-08
Posts: 1,460
Likes: 1
From: Iowa
He's talking about a method they used on the Solstice forums. They disconnected the two I have circled AND they disconnected the BPV hose. Then, they ran a hose from the manifold to a 'T' connection.
I did notice something. It appears they are bypassing the solenoid. We have a tank in addition to the solenoid.
This is the SOLSTICE before shot... which is what mine looks like right now afterwards.
This is their after shot...
If you look at OURS though, we have a tank sitting below the manifold that they do not have. If you look at the picture I circled the hoses in and compare it to the before shot in this post you'll see what I'm talking about. I just noticed it myself that the two cars are different in that sense.
I'm skeptical of using a 'T' though... I don't know how exactly that solenoid is performing which is why I am skeptical. Maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in.
I did notice something. It appears they are bypassing the solenoid. We have a tank in addition to the solenoid.
This is the SOLSTICE before shot... which is what mine looks like right now afterwards.
This is their after shot...
If you look at OURS though, we have a tank sitting below the manifold that they do not have. If you look at the picture I circled the hoses in and compare it to the before shot in this post you'll see what I'm talking about. I just noticed it myself that the two cars are different in that sense.
I'm skeptical of using a 'T' though... I don't know how exactly that solenoid is performing which is why I am skeptical. Maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in.
10-07-2009 | 04:39 PM
#35
Senior Member
Joined: 03-05-09
Posts: 1,028
Likes: 2
From: Des Moines, IA
Either way you're just giving the BPV a full reference boost/vacuum source without electronic control in the mix. I guess GM decided they needed the vacuum reservoir to control the BPV properly on our cars. I'd guess it allows them to play with the BPV even when no vacuum condition is present. You see vacuum tanks/***** on a lot of boosted cars for obvious reasons. What you decide to do/not do with the vacuum tank is up to you I guess.
I'm sure some of you noticed that when you disconnect those hoses after running the car you'll hear it suck in the air as the tank pressurizes.
The only thing I did different from the Solstice pictures shown was add a piece of hose. I REALLY didn't want to cut any of my hoses and that makes it a simple 2 minute reversible mod.
I'm sure some of you noticed that when you disconnect those hoses after running the car you'll hear it suck in the air as the tank pressurizes.
The only thing I did different from the Solstice pictures shown was add a piece of hose. I REALLY didn't want to cut any of my hoses and that makes it a simple 2 minute reversible mod.
10-07-2009 | 04:45 PM
#37
Junior Member
Joined: 07-30-08
Posts: 482
Likes: 0
From: Phx. Az
I THINK this is what he's talking about. (also waiting for pics)
The two actually circled are the ones to disconnect and bypass. I'm not 100% though...
EDIT: I got brave and tried it out. After looking at the picture I did and reading his description I couldn't see it being different.
CONFIRMED: According to the gauge it appears that I gained in the ballpark of 1 psi. It's not much at all I know, but it was free. Can't argue with that. I am BSR tuned by the way.
Will you feel it in the seat of your pants? No.
I'm unsure about spool up response. I can't tell if it has changed. However, the BPV seems to react quicker and also dump the pressure faster. Makes sense too if you think about it. The tank is just more volume for vacuum to be pulled on. With only a hose in it's place the reaction is quicker. (MUCH less volume) Seems like it's a bit more audible for this reason but I'm unsure. It gives me the impression this vacuum tank was designed pretty much just for the NLS feature. I don't use NLS but I did a 2-3 NLS while I was out and it worked just fine.
So just take a single piece of hose and run it from the top of the manifold to the solenoid. (join the two circled with a single piece)
No CEL's or anything. I'm gonna keep it.
Thanks to the OP for sharing! Can't wait until more people try it to get their impressions. I just did a quick 10 minute drive.
Oh, and there was a thread quite a while ago of some people with aggressive tunes experiencing part throttle compressor surge. I have a a feeling this just might be a cure if not help quite a lot. Just a feeling...
The two actually circled are the ones to disconnect and bypass. I'm not 100% though...
EDIT: I got brave and tried it out. After looking at the picture I did and reading his description I couldn't see it being different.
CONFIRMED: According to the gauge it appears that I gained in the ballpark of 1 psi. It's not much at all I know, but it was free. Can't argue with that. I am BSR tuned by the way.
Will you feel it in the seat of your pants? No.
I'm unsure about spool up response. I can't tell if it has changed. However, the BPV seems to react quicker and also dump the pressure faster. Makes sense too if you think about it. The tank is just more volume for vacuum to be pulled on. With only a hose in it's place the reaction is quicker. (MUCH less volume) Seems like it's a bit more audible for this reason but I'm unsure. It gives me the impression this vacuum tank was designed pretty much just for the NLS feature. I don't use NLS but I did a 2-3 NLS while I was out and it worked just fine.
So just take a single piece of hose and run it from the top of the manifold to the solenoid. (join the two circled with a single piece)
No CEL's or anything. I'm gonna keep it.
Thanks to the OP for sharing! Can't wait until more people try it to get their impressions. I just did a quick 10 minute drive.
Oh, and there was a thread quite a while ago of some people with aggressive tunes experiencing part throttle compressor surge. I have a a feeling this just might be a cure if not help quite a lot. Just a feeling...
The Hoses circled are two different lines... I cant see using one single peice as you'll have to plug one hole someplace.. and the other two lines that are labaled BPV and Intake are separate entirely themselves too......... Still not clear what's to do here, etc........
10-07-2009 | 04:47 PM
#38
Senior Member
Joined: 03-05-09
Posts: 1,028
Likes: 2
From: Des Moines, IA
Zander916,
I would agree with not using a T if I did this again and just hook the BPV straight to the intake manifold. When I did mine, just kinda followed the how-to you saw. Unless I'm misunderstanding you...
Might cap off all the open ports on the solenoid too just to keep it clean, should you ever need to do back.
I would agree with not using a T if I did this again and just hook the BPV straight to the intake manifold. When I did mine, just kinda followed the how-to you saw. Unless I'm misunderstanding you...
Might cap off all the open ports on the solenoid too just to keep it clean, should you ever need to do back.
10-07-2009 | 04:50 PM
#39
Senior Member
Joined: 08-05-08
Posts: 1,460
Likes: 1
From: Iowa
The Hoses circled are two different lines... I cant see using one single peice as you'll have to plug one hole someplace.. and the other two lines that are labaled BPV and Intake are separate entirely themselves too......... Still not clear what's to do here, etc........
Picture the muffler delete. The vacuum tank is the "muffler" and the new hose is the "straight pipe".
10-07-2009 | 04:55 PM
#40
Senior Member
Joined: 03-05-09
Posts: 1,028
Likes: 2
From: Des Moines, IA
Using this picture:
http://www.ecimulti.org/scratch/bpvsolenoidbypass.jpg
1.) Disconnect the hose at the yellow circle, cap it off... whatever you want to do with it. I'd cap it off though to keep crapola out.
2.) Remove the red circled hose from that solenoid and connect it however you like to where the yellow circled hose was on the intake manifold.
This will give the BPV full vacuum/boost reference pressure. This renders the solenoid/tank inoperable.
If I messed up, someone tell me.
http://www.ecimulti.org/scratch/bpvsolenoidbypass.jpg
1.) Disconnect the hose at the yellow circle, cap it off... whatever you want to do with it. I'd cap it off though to keep crapola out.
2.) Remove the red circled hose from that solenoid and connect it however you like to where the yellow circled hose was on the intake manifold.
This will give the BPV full vacuum/boost reference pressure. This renders the solenoid/tank inoperable.
If I messed up, someone tell me.
10-07-2009 | 04:55 PM
#41
Senior Member
Joined: 08-05-08
Posts: 1,460
Likes: 1
From: Iowa
Zander916,
I would agree with not using a T if I did this again and just hook the BPV straight to the intake manifold. When I did mine, just kinda followed the how-to you saw. Unless I'm misunderstanding you...
Might cap off all the open ports on the solenoid too just to keep it clean, should you ever need to do back.
I would agree with not using a T if I did this again and just hook the BPV straight to the intake manifold. When I did mine, just kinda followed the how-to you saw. Unless I'm misunderstanding you...
Might cap off all the open ports on the solenoid too just to keep it clean, should you ever need to do back.
I mean I don't know exactly how that thing works but I picture the BPV hose as kind of a "common" and the solenoid is switching between pressure (the intake hose) and vacuum (the one originally coming from the tank by the dipstick). Using the 'T' bypasses the intake hose.
Maybe someone knows exactly how that solenoid works. Without that knowledge though I don't feel comfortable bypassing the solenoid itself. Just the tank. I could see having drivability issues if bypassing the solenoid. That takes away electronic modulation of the BPV.
10-07-2009 | 04:59 PM
#42
Senior Member
Joined: 03-05-09
Posts: 1,028
Likes: 2
From: Des Moines, IA
Ahh I see now.... see I always thought the whole point was to bypass the PCM's control of the BPV. Thats what I did on that EDAL mod, and when the car was stock tune I really didn't like how it drove. I agree with you, we don't really totally understand what all the PCM is trying to accomplish with that solenoid just yet.
So unless you DON'T WANT to keep the PCM in the mix, don't do what I posted above and listen to Zander to just bypass the tank.
So unless you DON'T WANT to keep the PCM in the mix, don't do what I posted above and listen to Zander to just bypass the tank.
10-07-2009 | 05:03 PM
#43
Senior Member
Joined: 08-05-08
Posts: 1,460
Likes: 1
From: Iowa
Ahh I see now.... see I always thought the whole point was to bypass the PCM's control of the BPV. Thats what I did on that EDAL mod, and when the car was stock tune I really didn't like how it drove. I agree with you, we don't really totally understand what all the PCM is trying to accomplish with that solenoid just yet.
So unless you DON'T WANT to keep the PCM in the mix, don't do what I posted above and listen to Zander to just bypass the tank.
So unless you DON'T WANT to keep the PCM in the mix, don't do what I posted above and listen to Zander to just bypass the tank.
One thing people should know, the SOLSTICE and COBALT are DIFFERENT! The Solstice does not have a vacuum tank and they are bypassing the solenoid. We have the tank and I just bypassed that, leaving the solenoid in the system.
10-07-2009 | 05:05 PM
#44
Senior Member
Joined: 07-25-08
Posts: 12,478
Likes: 6
From: Florida
Yep. We're probably confusing the hell out of everyone. I'm still discovering things as I'm going along.
One thing people should know, the SOLSTICE and COBALT are DIFFERENT! The Solstice does not have a vacuum tank and they are bypassing the solenoid. We have the tank and I just bypassed that, leaving the solenoid in the system.
One thing people should know, the SOLSTICE and COBALT are DIFFERENT! The Solstice does not have a vacuum tank and they are bypassing the solenoid. We have the tank and I just bypassed that, leaving the solenoid in the system.
10-07-2009 | 05:07 PM
#45
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Joined: 08-05-08
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From: Iowa
10-07-2009 | 05:09 PM
#46
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Joined: 02-10-09
Posts: 4,377
Likes: 5
From: Tejas
sub'd
This could be good news for the people that have surge issues, as the BPV will pop off sooner, protecting the turbo. The downside is that it may activate sometimes when you don't want it to.
I'm with you all on the reasoning behind it. I can't think of any other reason it'd be there except as a buffer to assist in keeping it from popping-off during NLS (which the Sky/Solstice didn't have originally and therefore didn't have the tank... and notice there's no need for one still when they get the NLS ability through the stage kit).
Perhaps it was originally thought that it would be needed and later found it wasn't absolutely necessary.
This could be good news for the people that have surge issues, as the BPV will pop off sooner, protecting the turbo. The downside is that it may activate sometimes when you don't want it to.
I'm with you all on the reasoning behind it. I can't think of any other reason it'd be there except as a buffer to assist in keeping it from popping-off during NLS (which the Sky/Solstice didn't have originally and therefore didn't have the tank... and notice there's no need for one still when they get the NLS ability through the stage kit).
Perhaps it was originally thought that it would be needed and later found it wasn't absolutely necessary.
10-07-2009 | 05:11 PM
#48
Junior Member
Joined: 07-30-08
Posts: 482
Likes: 0
From: Phx. Az
berto's pic of the red and yellow hoses makes no sense because his are going to a external BOV......
The 916 pics in green make some sense but not much as still not being specific....... I bet this will throw CEL codes at some point... It'll take a day or two for the car to learn what's going on......
The 916 pics in green make some sense but not much as still not being specific....... I bet this will throw CEL codes at some point... It'll take a day or two for the car to learn what's going on......
10-07-2009 | 05:16 PM
#49
Senior Member
Joined: 08-05-08
Posts: 1,460
Likes: 1
From: Iowa
berto's pic of the red and yellow hoses makes no sense because his are going to a external BOV......
The 916 pics in green make some sense but not much as still not being specific....... I bet this will throw CEL codes at some point... It'll take a day or two for the car to learn what's going on......
The 916 pics in green make some sense but not much as still not being specific....... I bet this will throw CEL codes at some point... It'll take a day or two for the car to learn what's going on......
Ok... here's the tank. This is looking UNDER the intake manifold while I'm standing in front of the passenger side headlight.
10-07-2009 | 05:16 PM
#50
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Joined: 07-25-08
Posts: 12,478
Likes: 6
From: Florida
berto's pic of the red and yellow hoses makes no sense because his are going to a external BOV......
The 916 pics in green make some sense but not much as still not being specific....... I bet this will throw CEL codes at some point... It'll take a day or two for the car to learn what's going on......
The 916 pics in green make some sense but not much as still not being specific....... I bet this will throw CEL codes at some point... It'll take a day or two for the car to learn what's going on......