It has nothing to do with emissions, gm simply wont push the turbo/components to the limit since the car has a 5 year powertrain warranty. Aftermarket tuners normally don't care about this, they go for peak hp numbers, this is what sells their tunes.

 

**** the kit, its a broken promise and will not yield much, plus the warranty you guys talk about is garbage as it is, will GM still be around 5 years or so down the road? I don't count on it. You gotta pay to play. Simple as that

 

Sorry, even GMPP sells parts that meet federal emeissions standards. They are required to validate them to EPA specs...BTW, why would GM produce and sell a "tune" that they knew would break parts?

 

And GM cares about all the tables, not just WOT tables

 

I'm beginning to feel the same way. Apparently the LNF is stout enough to handle way more than 300 HP on stock internals. The GM kit hypothetically might yield 310 or so with supporting mods? Within the confines of the stock turbo more (reliable) power should be available-and probably cheaper,too......Side note: can anyone comment on to what degree supporting mods can lean things out(assuming you're not tuned for them).From what I've read GM Stage kits (lsj) run quite rich and someone mentioned their Trifecta a/f was in the 11's.

 

Pardon my ignorance, but I've been reading through this and am not fully understanding what the "learn down" is. Could someone elaborate without smart ass stuff like "use the search you idiot," because I have and it has not helped. Thanks css.net

 

use the search you idiot. lol j/k

The learn down feature is a set in stone kinda thing with the cars pcm. Any mods you put on the car, you name it, will not give you any horsepower advantages unless its removed. The car will "learn down" every mod you put into the car so that it only makes a max of 261 hp at crank and 262 torque at crank.

Lets say you put a intake, exhaust, IC, and charge piping on your car but you havent gotten the thing tuned or the learn down feature removed. You will still only make the stock amount of crank horsepower. You may be able to get to the stock max of hp quicker since you made the cars breathing abilities better but the car will never take advantage of the power gain it could have.

In fact the only way you will see more hp is if you were looking for whp and you got lightweight rims or a lightweight flywheel or drilled slotted rotors. (reduced rotational mass etc...)

The only way I've so far seen to remove this learn down feature is to get tuned by the mass of tuners out there. Im looking at superchips tuner, but theres also hp tuner, trifecta tune, etc.

 

No the only way to remove that feature is with a gmpp tune, all the other tuners out there simply raise the hp limit but you're still stuck to it if you add any more mods. With the gmpp tune, whenever it comes out, you'll actually get more hp when you start adding mods.

 

BINGO!! ^^^^

Winner winner chicken dinner!

 

lol, then why is this thread called "Learn down Feature still present with GM Tune!!!"

I gotcha though, thats why i've seen some people with tunes not gain anymore hp after adding aftermarket parts with their tunes.

 

Ask the op, the learn down feature isnt present in the gmpp tune in the solstice/hhr.

 

Maybe somebody more computer savvy than me (that's easy) can explain what the "operating system" has to do with our ECU. and why the GM upgrade replaces the existing OS with a new one. Maybe it has something to do with the "learn down"?

 

Okay think about it like this.

Windows is an Operating system. It's a set of software that communicates with the hardware in your computer.

Now to the car. It needs the right operating system to communicate with all of the hardware and sensors in the car.

So the new operating system operates with new TMAP sensors so we get the right fuel and boost pressure.

SImple enough?

 

ok ok, so if i got the GM stage kit when it comes out, and im looking at 275 crank hp with stock intake.... what would be the whp guess if I added charge piping, down pipe, CAI SRI? Thats all I plan on adding I think? Will this break 300whp?

Ontop of that, what is the max amount of power you could get with this GM stage kit with just bolt ons and no internals done, and no new turbo?

 

Learn down is not the correct way of thinking here guys. The ECM has a programmed desired airload table based on load and rpm. It uses the DALs to control the wategate and ETC (throttle opening). That is one way the ECM regulates torque and thus HP output. There is no way to remove the desired airloads!!!!!!! You can raise them up though to flow more air and make more power. The GM tunes does not remove the desired airloads. It does raise them up though. There is a reason the GM tuned HHRs make only 260 whp or so instead of over 300 whp. The GM tune is ultra conservative both on the DALS and the fueling.

Not correct. Hence why I can make and additional 15-20 whp with an intake than with the stock airbox without touching my tune.

 

bump

 

BartSS had 289 whp and about the same wtrq with CPs IC DP CB. Stock airbox but the HHRs airbox apparently flows better than ours does. Stage tune only HHR made 256 whp and 268 wrtq IIRC on that same dyno same day.

 

well how do you make 300whp with the gm tune???

 

Your tune is probably too aggressive for the restrictive stock airbox, hence why you're seeing a gain with an intake. You wont see those gains on the stock tune that's for sure, and if you do they'll disappear rather quickly.
If you set the desired air load tables to 400 on a stock car and start adding mods you'll quickly see your hp go up after each mod.

 

My DALs are close to 400. Gains will be less because less airflow with stock airloads but there will still be decent gains up top.

You contact someone like me with HP Tuners and tune on top of the stage tune. How does 28 psi in the midrange and 23-24 psi up top sound?

 

sounds great minus no warranty and FWD.

^^ dangerous as I thought the turbo was good for 23 psi and anything over is basically stressing the hell out of it. This could be different with new sensors. Correct me if I'm wrong as I'm still learning about this stuff.

 

It is ok to run 26-28 psi in the midrange and 23-24 psi up top as long as you are not trying to rev to 7K.

 

OPERATING SYSTEM

The most important program that runs on a computer. Every general-purpose computer must have an operating system to run other programs. Operating systems perform basic tasks, such as recognizing input from the keyboard, sending output to the display screen, keeping track of files and directories on the disk, and controlling peripheral devices such as disk drives and printers.
For large systems, the operating system has even greater responsibilities and powers. It is like a traffic cop -- it makes sure that different programs and users running at the same time do not interfere with each other. THE OPERATING SYSTEM IS ALSO RESPONSIBLE FOR SECURITY, ENSURING THAT UNAUTHORIZED USERS DO NOT ACCESS THE SYSTEM.

Operating systems can be classified as follows:

multi-user : Allows two or more users to run programs at the same time. Some operating systems permit hundreds or even thousands of concurrent users.
multiprocessing : Supports running a program on more than one CPU.
multitasking : Allows more than one program to run concurrently.
multithreading : Allows different parts of a single program to run concurrently.
real time: Responds to input instantly. General-purpose operating systems, such as DOS and UNIX, are not real-time.
Operating systems provide a software platform on top of which other programs, called application programs, can run. The application programs must be written to run on top of a particular operating system. Your choice of operating system, therefore, determines to a great extent the applications you can run. For PCs, the most popular operating systems are DOS, OS/2, and Windows, but others are available, such as Linux.

As a user, you normally interact with the operating system through a set of commands. For example, the DOS operating system contains commands such as COPY and RENAME for copying files and changing the names of files, respectively. The commands are accepted and executed by a part of the operating system called the command processor or command line interpreter. Graphical user interfaces allow you to enter commands by pointing and clicking at objects that appear on the screen.

================================================== ================

Maybe the part about SECURITY has something to do with the difficulty aftermarket tuners have getting around the learn down. By REPLACING the operating system with something a little more user friendly the learn down goes away and other power adders actually work. Without the learn down the only limitations will be those of the imagination, calibration and mechanical limitations like the turbo and fuel delivery. And, of course, your desire to keep your warrantee.

 

Did you read the link in the original post at all? I was essentially reposting on these forum something that Vince (by now we should all know who Vince is) at Trifecta had posted on another forum. Like I've said before..I'll believe something he says over pretty much ANY other person on this forum when it comes to tuning these cars. To each their own though.

~Cheers

 

Read my post above on page 4 about the " learn down feature" as you call it.