2.0L LNF Performance Tech 260hp and 260 lb-ft of torque Turbocharged tuner version.

May have solved 100% E85 on LNF puzzle

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Old 03-18-2011 | 10:22 PM
  #351  
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Originally Posted by VinceTrifecta
I wish I had something to give to you. Lol. The difference in tuning with E85 is you may pass MBT without knowing it. Usually, with gasoline you hit knock around MBT so it can be a useful guide to know when you're close. This might not happen with E85 due to its knock resistance.

I'm going to the dyno tomorrow to optimize the tune for E85. After that I will have something to give you.
A finished tune I hope. Cant Wait
Old 03-18-2011 | 11:11 PM
  #352  
gmtech16450yz
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Originally Posted by VinceTrifecta
Correct. We're at about 330* BTDC with IAB now instead of 240* BTDC which is the stock (very conservative) setting.

EDIT: Just checked the LHU cal, it calls for up to 354* for injection start point at max air mass and RPM.
Minimum on the LHU is 272*, is the 240* on the LNF the min or max?

I'm thinking maybe we need to ditch the Bosch E69 and just convert the LNF's to run on the E39 ECM. There's plenty of good tables supported already. Boost control, fuel pressure, injector timing, stoich, etc.
Old 03-18-2011 | 11:11 PM
  #353  
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Originally Posted by VinceTrifecta
I wish I had something to give to you. Lol. The difference in tuning with E85 is you may pass MBT without knowing it. Usually, with gasoline you hit knock around MBT so it can be a useful guide to know when you're close. This might not happen with E85 due to its knock resistance.

I'm going to the dyno tomorrow to optimize the tune for E85. After that I will have something to give you.
Can I haz an E85 tune also??
Old 03-18-2011 | 11:22 PM
  #354  
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Originally Posted by gmtech16450yz
Minimum on the LHU is 272*, is the 240* on the LNF the min or max?

I'm thinking maybe we need to ditch the Bosch E69 and just convert the LNF's to run on the E39 ECM. There's plenty of good tables supported already. Boost control, fuel pressure, injector timing, stoich, etc.
"Minimum" on LNF is 160*, and "maximum" is 240*.

There's nothing wrong with the E69 per-se, just that nobody seems to want to support it. The same tables in the E39 more or less are in the E69 too.

And one advantage it has over all the Delphi cals I've seen is it supports and implements a factory wideband.
Old 03-18-2011 | 11:53 PM
  #355  
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In preparation for the E85 frenzy... here is a list of every E85 station in america... according to the feds... Hey the government turned out to be good for something after all...

AFDC Ethanol: E85 Fueling Station Locations
Old 03-19-2011 | 01:41 AM
  #356  
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Hey Vince.. My father works for delphi and is an engineer there. If u need any info on somethign he might be able to get it for you
Old 03-19-2011 | 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by VinceTrifecta
I wish I had something to give to you. Lol. The difference in tuning with E85 is you may pass MBT without knowing it. Usually, with gasoline you hit knock around MBT so it can be a useful guide to know when you're close. This might not happen with E85 due to its knock resistance.

I'm going to the dyno tomorrow to optimize the tune for E85. After that I will have something to give you.
I go to the track almost every weekend, so its not like I am missing too much (:

E85 is really going to help with the 110 degree temps here in AZ
Old 03-19-2011 | 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MS3 2 SSTC
Can I haz an E85 tune also??
x22222222222222

everyone is gonna have an orgasm soon
Old 03-19-2011 | 04:14 PM
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Looking forward to Vince's dyno findings...
Old 03-19-2011 | 04:21 PM
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^^ Me too.
Old 03-19-2011 | 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ssturbo305
x22222222222222

everyone is gonna have an orgasm soon
Too late
Old 03-19-2011 | 04:55 PM
  #362  
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E85 tune & EFR TC/Cam setup - one of us in the forum will definitely hit the 10's or 9's!!!
Old 03-19-2011 | 05:08 PM
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awaiting vinces dyno numbers
Old 03-19-2011 | 07:16 PM
  #364  
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Originally Posted by ripped
awaiting vinces dyno numbers
Quick update in between family commitments on this sunny weekend:

248WHP baseline on my bone stock HHR SS, untuned

301WHP tuned on 92

335WHP tuned on 100% E85

(!)

I couldn't really see the torque gains because my clutch is so iffy as it is, and I had to start my runs at 4000-4500 RPM.

Full report to come later
Old 03-19-2011 | 07:26 PM
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Nice gains for sure!
Old 03-19-2011 | 07:27 PM
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sekz
Old 03-19-2011 | 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by VinceTrifecta
The difference in tuning with E85 is you may pass MBT without knowing it. Usually, with gasoline you hit knock around MBT so it can be a useful guide to know when you're close. This might not happen with E85 due to its knock resistance.
I've found the LNF (using 91 octane...) to be knock limited and MBT was no where to be found as I was only capable of running 13* up top, at most. No crazy boost pressure either.

FWIW, I found on my own stock car (HPT+ E48) that raising timing above 23* netted me a loss in power. Could very well be different on other cars.

Originally Posted by VinceTrifecta
Quick update in between family commitments on this sunny weekend:

248WHP baseline on my bone stock HHR SS, untuned

301WHP tuned on 92

335WHP tuned on 100% E85

(!)

I couldn't really see the torque gains because my clutch is so iffy as it is, and I had to start my runs at 4000-4500 RPM.

Full report to come later
What kind of timing did you use in order to achieve what you did with E85? When did you start to ramp it in/where was peak?

With regards to longevity of both the motor and rail/injectors, how will opening the injection window affect things?

Last edited by T-Man; 03-19-2011 at 07:36 PM.
Old 03-19-2011 | 08:11 PM
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What mods on the hhr vince?
Old 03-19-2011 | 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by VinceTrifecta
Quick update in between family commitments on this sunny weekend:

248WHP baseline on my bone stock HHR SS, untuned

301WHP tuned on 92

335WHP tuned on 100% E85

(!)

I couldn't really see the torque gains because my clutch is so iffy as it is, and I had to start my runs at 4000-4500 RPM.

Full report to come later
Nice gains Vince!
Was that on a completely stock HHR??
Old 03-19-2011 | 08:37 PM
  #370  
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LNF is most definitely knock limited on 91 oct gas.

He said his HHR is bone stock, that means (or should mean) no mods.
Old 03-19-2011 | 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by gmtech16450yz
LNF is most definitely knock limited on 91 oct gas.

He said his HHR is bone stock, that means (or should mean) no mods.
If it's bone stock then HOLY ****!!! wonder what numbers a lightly modded LNF can achieve?
Looks like I will be needing an upgraded clutch next!
Old 03-20-2011 | 12:11 AM
  #372  
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So you had an 87hp increase by just playing with timing and tuning for e85? That's impressive.
Old 03-20-2011 | 01:38 AM
  #373  
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Originally Posted by MS3 2 SSTC
If it's bone stock then HOLY ****!!! wonder what numbers a lightly modded LNF can achieve?
Looks like I will be needing an upgraded clutch next!
Yes, my HHR SS is bone stock. It made more power tuned on E85 than any bolt-on modded LNF I've dynoed at the local dyno.
Old 03-20-2011 | 01:44 AM
  #374  
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Originally Posted by VinceTrifecta
Yes, my HHR SS is bone stock. It made more power tuned on E85 than any bolt-on modded LNF I've dynoed at the local dyno.
Good work Vince!! Can't wait till you release it for the 09-10 LNFs
Old 03-20-2011 | 01:46 AM
  #375  
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Originally Posted by T-Man
I've found the LNF (using 91 octane...) to be knock limited and MBT was no where to be found as I was only capable of running 13* up top, at most. No crazy boost pressure either.

FWIW, I found on my own stock car (HPT+ E48) that raising timing above 23* netted me a loss in power. Could very well be different on other cars.



What kind of timing did you use in order to achieve what you did with E85? When did you start to ramp it in/where was peak?

With regards to longevity of both the motor and rail/injectors, how will opening the injection window affect things?
I found the best power at .88 lambda and 20* total advance at the top end. I tried 21*, that resulted in a loss. I tried .90 lambda, that resulted in a loss. I tried .86 lambda and it was almost identical as .88 so I stuck with .88.

I expect taking the approach of opening the window vs, say raising the rail pressure (all my testing was done at stock rail pressure of 2200psi) will result in less wear on the high pressure components. I've heard of one person having problems with the high pressure pump from raising the rail pressure, and others (including myself) have had unstable rail pressures resulting in periodic P0087 codes.

I also had a chance to try the injection timing stuff on another LNF that was tuned for gasoline on the dyno - advancing the injection timing had basically no effect on the power.

Originally Posted by MS3 2 SSTC
Good work Vince!! Can't wait till you release it for the 09-10 LNFs
We can offer these tunes now for all LNFs (if we're doing the tuning). The layer isn't finished for 07, 09 and 10 yet, though.

Last edited by VinceTrifecta; 03-20-2011 at 01:46 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost


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