May have solved 100% E85 on LNF puzzle
03-20-2011 | 01:56 AM
#376
Senior Member
Joined: 05-26-10
Posts: 933
Likes: 0
From: Edinburg, Tx
03-20-2011 | 02:17 AM
#378
Senior Member
Joined: 07-23-10
Posts: 3,451
Likes: 0
From: Carlsbad, CA
03-20-2011 | 02:59 AM
#379
Daaanngg... i need a tune so bad. im running HPT right now but maybe ill switch over to Trifecta to run complete E85.
Vince when u say "if your doing the tuning" does that mean i can still go through a local trifecta dealer?
Vince when u say "if your doing the tuning" does that mean i can still go through a local trifecta dealer?
03-20-2011 | 08:46 AM
#380
Senior Member
Joined: 09-04-09
Posts: 2,218
Likes: 0
From: Alabama
03-20-2011 | 11:12 AM
#383
New Member
Joined: 07-07-09
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: DFW
I found the best power at .88 lambda and 20* total advance at the top end. I tried 21*, that resulted in a loss. I tried .90 lambda, that resulted in a loss. I tried .86 lambda and it was almost identical as .88 so I stuck with .88.
I expect taking the approach of opening the window vs, say raising the rail pressure (all my testing was done at stock rail pressure of 2200psi) will result in less wear on the high pressure components. I've heard of one person having problems with the high pressure pump from raising the rail pressure, and others (including myself) have had unstable rail pressures resulting in periodic P0087 codes.
I also had a chance to try the injection timing stuff on another LNF that was tuned for gasoline on the dyno - advancing the injection timing had basically no effect on the power.
We can offer these tunes now for all LNFs (if we're doing the tuning). The layer isn't finished for 07, 09 and 10 yet, though.
I expect taking the approach of opening the window vs, say raising the rail pressure (all my testing was done at stock rail pressure of 2200psi) will result in less wear on the high pressure components. I've heard of one person having problems with the high pressure pump from raising the rail pressure, and others (including myself) have had unstable rail pressures resulting in periodic P0087 codes.
I also had a chance to try the injection timing stuff on another LNF that was tuned for gasoline on the dyno - advancing the injection timing had basically no effect on the power.
We can offer these tunes now for all LNFs (if we're doing the tuning). The layer isn't finished for 07, 09 and 10 yet, though.
Since this is kind of a new product will there be an up charge for those of us that are already TF tuned? I would not blame you one bit since its a new product in a way... just courious....Either way I am surrounded by e85 stations so im in...
thx
03-20-2011 | 11:17 AM
#384
New Member
Joined: 07-07-09
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: DFW
This is a question im sure many of you could answer.
So if the base tune is for gasoline and the activated tune is for e85, can you run the base 92gas tune with e85 in the tank and not hurt the car? I would think so it would just not take advantage of e85 without the e85 tune right?
thx
So if the base tune is for gasoline and the activated tune is for e85, can you run the base 92gas tune with e85 in the tank and not hurt the car? I would think so it would just not take advantage of e85 without the e85 tune right?
thx
03-20-2011 | 12:27 PM
#387
New Member
Joined: 07-07-09
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: DFW
So the same would be true in reverse, if you were tuned for e85 and had to put gas in you'ed be running very fat then... right?
03-20-2011 | 12:55 PM
#388
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: 04-09-08
Posts: 377
Likes: 0
From: Seattle, WA
Yes - you can also get our layer and put your HPT tune over the top of our stuff (when that part is ready)
03-20-2011 | 12:57 PM
#389
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: 04-09-08
Posts: 377
Likes: 0
From: Seattle, WA
Right.
03-20-2011 | 01:12 PM
#390
I found the best power at .88 lambda and 20* total advance at the top end. I tried 21*, that resulted in a loss. I tried .90 lambda, that resulted in a loss. I tried .86 lambda and it was almost identical as .88 so I stuck with .88.
I expect taking the approach of opening the window vs, say raising the rail pressure (all my testing was done at stock rail pressure of 2200psi) will result in less wear on the high pressure components. I've heard of one person having problems with the high pressure pump from raising the rail pressure, and others (including myself) have had unstable rail pressures resulting in periodic P0087 codes.
I also had a chance to try the injection timing stuff on another LNF that was tuned for gasoline on the dyno - advancing the injection timing had basically no effect on the power.
I expect taking the approach of opening the window vs, say raising the rail pressure (all my testing was done at stock rail pressure of 2200psi) will result in less wear on the high pressure components. I've heard of one person having problems with the high pressure pump from raising the rail pressure, and others (including myself) have had unstable rail pressures resulting in periodic P0087 codes.
I also had a chance to try the injection timing stuff on another LNF that was tuned for gasoline on the dyno - advancing the injection timing had basically no effect on the power.
You say you saw no difference advancing the injection timing with gasoline but how about E85? It would seem that it would be of further benefit, no?
Thanks again Vince.
03-20-2011 | 01:17 PM
#391
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: 04-09-08
Posts: 377
Likes: 0
From: Seattle, WA
Thank you for taking the time to answer my question(s). I too found a happy medium using .88 versus .89 and .90
You say you saw no difference advancing the injection timing with gasoline but how about E85? It would seem that it would be of further benefit, no?
Thanks again Vince.
You say you saw no difference advancing the injection timing with gasoline but how about E85? It would seem that it would be of further benefit, no?
Thanks again Vince.
03-20-2011 | 01:38 PM
#392
03-20-2011 | 01:53 PM
#393
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: 04-09-08
Posts: 377
Likes: 0
From: Seattle, WA
Here's the dyno sheet. My apologies for the missing parts of the graph, we were having ignition pick up issues on the earlier runs. I had to select a tuned run at 293HP as the 301HP run barely got picked up when displaying in RPM mode.
Also, I started my E85 runs late in the RPM band because on E85 my clutch is extremely unhappy about the extra power at low to mid RPM. I really wish I could show the torque at those lower RPMs because I'm quite sure it would be pretty phenomenal, but, well, I can only do so much with the clutch I have. Lol
The blue run is stock
The red run is tuned for gasoline
The green run is tuned for E85
Also, I started my E85 runs late in the RPM band because on E85 my clutch is extremely unhappy about the extra power at low to mid RPM. I really wish I could show the torque at those lower RPMs because I'm quite sure it would be pretty phenomenal, but, well, I can only do so much with the clutch I have. Lol
The blue run is stock
The red run is tuned for gasoline
The green run is tuned for E85
03-20-2011 | 02:02 PM
#395
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: 04-09-08
Posts: 377
Likes: 0
From: Seattle, WA
It's something that will have to be closely monitored. We can detune the engine in the low to mid RPM power band where clutch slip is most likely to be an issue. Even on gasoline, unless the vehicle has an upgraded clutch, we don't go full boost until around 4000-4500RPM due to potential clutch issues.
03-20-2011 | 02:07 PM
#398
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: 04-09-08
Posts: 377
Likes: 0
From: Seattle, WA
I'll add that every car seems to be different, too. In my experience the 08s have more clutch issues than the 09 and 10 cars. I've heard of some cars holding as much as 400 lb-ft torque and others slipping (like mine) at 340 lb-ft or less.
03-20-2011 | 02:16 PM
#400
From what I have read on the E85 forums, all cars made 2000 model year and up have anti corrosive fuel lines to support the various blends of detergents and additives in gasoline. (Which includes ethanol.) I Ran E85 in my Saab for a year without any issues other than having to replace the fuel filter. (Got clogged when the 60K mile fuel system was cleaned out with the E85)