08inBama

I know that the cost associated with this would probably be high... but myself and HHRSouth were discussing at the Nashville meet why GM never put the 6-speed in a LNF or LSJ Cobalt... being that some of the Saab 9-3s are in fact a 6-speed manual... which led to us wanting to know if the swap would be possible... and I am guessing no one has ever did this but does anyone know what all would be involved and what would have to be changed?

i'm pretty sure it'd be expensive I was just kind of curious

and of course with the upcoming Buick Regal GS, well, there is another option

Nighthawk243

Saab 9-3 uses the LK9, not the LNF. I'm not even sure if it'll bolt up to the LSJ/LNF.

Perfect.disguise

LSJ pretty much equals a SC LK9.

08inBama

upon review, I see that Quaife made a 6-Speed conversion for the LSJ Cobalts and Ion Redlines, though it was expensive as ****($4100)...

they'd probably be the people who would end up making one for the LNF... even though the Buick is getting the LNF, it won't be FWD, so there lies the problem with it... that is why I was thinking Saab might would be the answer

I don't know why GM didn't go the 6-speed route to begin with though... Honda has a 6-speed in the Si, Acura had one in the RSX, Nissan has one in the Sentra Spec-V, etc...

GM fails and uses the 5-speed

SS33

I used to think about this swap when I I worked at a Saab dealership.

But honestly, 1st and even almost 2nd gear are too short for me now as it is, definitely first,, I don't think I need any more gears to row through. I know the LNF get's slightly diff. gearing so it may be a diff story for them, but it doesn't take too much power to outgrow the short gears us LSJ guys have.

Now a longer 1st gear on the other hand....

But to answer the question. I'm sure it could be made to fit. But I don't think anyone has taken the time/resources to attempt the swap, that I know of. And like you said, the Quaife swap is just retarded expensive. And the worst part is, they charge that much for just the gear set, it's not even a full transmission. So you still hafta gut your trans, and swap all the Quaife goodies in.

Gimpster

Yah... you really need to run the comparisons between the gearboxes to decide. If you want 6 for the sake of 6 thats cool, but often the ratios dont work out in your favor.

emiller

The Honda's also have a narrow powerband so you cant spread out the gears as far.

tmharsh

If you look over the reviews that have ran the SS TC around a track, it is apparent that it doesn't need a sixth gear. If anything, it probably performs better with a five-speed gearbox. Car and Driver's lightning lap from 08 stated that they were able to take most of the track in third gear, which means less shifting. Less shifting could mean quicker lap times.

Force

I find 6-speeds as cool as the next guy, but I don't see the SS/TC needing one. The LNF makes more than enough torque to haul the car out of corners, even if it's spinning say 2,000rpm in 2nd. A 6-speed seems like overkill.

Sweetsandman

iTrader: (-1)

If you want to burn through 1st, 2nd AND 3rd and have to shift all the way into 5th by the end of the 1/4 mile then by all means have fun...but IMO a close ratio 6 speed would absolutely ruin this car.

bri2203

iTrader: (10)

an additional gear would be nice if it revmoved a few hundred RPMS. but as with exerthing automative, it comes down to cost.

09BlueBaltSS

The only reason id want a 6spd would be for highway use. I would keep gear 1-5 just as they are and have 6th be even more over driven. That way at 70mph you would be turning like 1900 rpm instead of 2300 or what ever it is

Nighthawk243

Yeah, would be nice. My balt sucks enough gas as it is on the interstate.

CordiaDOHC

iTrader: (2)

I will gladly take a 5 or 6 speed over my 4 speed!

08inBama

gas mileage is why I think this would be the best reason for the 6-speed, not really from a performance stand point... right now at 65mph in 5th you're at 3k rpm, with a 6-speed you'd be much lower in the powerband and would see the gas mileage increase a good bit... why do you think 435hp Corvettes can get like 29mpg on the highway.... we don't get much better

Billy Baldone

As I posted in the Buick GS thread 2 different GM reps at the Chicago Autoshow told me it would be FWD first,and maybe AWD later in the model run.

Sweetsandman

iTrader: (-1)

See the difference is they have a **** ton of low end torque WITHOUT having to spool a turbo. A 6th gear on top of what we have would probably overwork the engine and not get any better gas milage unless you're cruising at like 75-80mph because the gear would be soooo tall. The reason 4cyl cars get 6 gears is to utilize a much smaller power band (usually all top end)...but luckily we have a decently large power band so a short gears and a little final drive aren't really necessary. If you've ever driven a Speed3 or an SI or an RSX type S or an SER Spec-v...then you would know that a close ratio 6spd only causes more work...you shift way more often. Driving an Si especially...just from a red light through an intersection you're already hitting 3rd and because the gears are so short...stop go traffic is an absolute nightmare. 6 gears completely unnecessary for the LNF. And you can't really complain about gas milage with the LNF...cruising on the highway I average between 35-40 (the 30 mpg the epa rated this thing at is way off)....what more do you want?

tmharsh

SS TC is around 3000 RPM at 80 mph, so if the gears 1 through 5 stayed the same, you wouldn't be shifting into a sixth gear until around 80 mph. So in order to take advantage of that extra gear, you will need to be speeding. Doesn't make much sense on GM's part to add an extra gear that could only be utilized while cruising over the posted speed limit on the freeway.

rnjmur

I agree with most everyone. 1st gear is too short. If the gears could be changed to allow a better first gear (in the process all the gears would have to change a bit) I think that would be a big help. At least for all the LNF guys, you have a 3.82 Final Drive where as us LNJ guys have a 4.05 Final Drive.

I also agree that putting in the 6 speed is not going to help with driveability or gearing at all.

As far as swapping the Saab 6 speed, I am sure you could come up with a way to mount it. It may need to be shimmed and the linkages reworked, but I am sure you could make it work if you had the time and money to do it.

Terminator2

I use 5th (0.70) at starting at 45 mph on level roads. So a 6th gear (~0.58-0.60) I would use at 55-60 mph as long as it is flat. IMHO the Ratios should be
1st 3.38 : 1
2nd 2.10 : 1
3rd 1.56 : 1
4th 1.00 : 1
5th 0.70 : 1
6th 0.58 : 1

Sweetsandman

iTrader: (-1)

It would have to be extrememly flat cuz I know even at like 60mph my car will feel like it's workin its ass off on some of the highways around here (I480 gets pretty damn hilly in some spots). But I suppose if you had a ton of level highways you could benefit slihtly from a tall 6th gear added...but like I said...I average about 35-40 on my highway commutes and it feels like it still has enough to get up hills and stuff without down shifting...Any more and nobody would ever buy a Prius

importkiller

iTrader: (1)

I can see why some people want a 6 speed, ever since the Focus SVT came out with a 6 speed and i was driving around my 5 speed escort I thought that 6 gears was better cause it was more gears. This is simply not true, it has to do with the ratios, If you look at the 6 speed swap by qualife the final drive is very similar if not identical IIRC. 5th gear passing on the highway is awesome in this car so I am glad it does not have a 6th gear even with a different final drive ratio.

Gimpster

I've not ran the comparisons yet for graphing, but here is the raw ratio data. Except for the final drive, you can see that 5th/6th are pretty close to what we have.

Saab 9-3:

First Gear Ratio: 3.77
Second Gear Ratio: 2.04
Third Gear Ratio: 1.37
Fourth Gear Ratio: 1.05
Fifth Gear Ratio: 0.85
Sixth Gear Ratio: 0.71
Final Drive Axle Ratio: 3.55


SS/TC:

First Gear Ratio: 3.38
Second Gear Ratio: 1.76
Third Gear Ratio: 1.18
Fourth Gear Ratio: 0.89
Firth Gear Ratio: 0.70
Final Drive Axle Ratio: 3.82

1Rare4Door

From my understanding they used the 5 speeds due to strength issues with the 6 vs the 5. The guy with the woulds fastest 6 speed LS1 goes through them like crazy in his car and is contemplating going to a 5 speed for strength. I do admit it would put our cars in a whole other level with fuel economy since my LS1 camaro with its 6 speed gets 28 on the highway where my best in the cobalt has gone only 27. My camaro does 90MPH at 2K RPM's

Gimpster

Here is a nuts and bolts comparison of that Saab vs. our transmission. I'll let you guys discuss, but I'd say switching to that transmission would be a mistake. 6th gear appears to be basically a wash... so you would get no fuel economy improvment with this Saab gearbox.