Stamina

No problem man. Good luck on your build!

AyrtonSenna

Thank you. I'm sure ZZP will do a great job. I will get all the parts entirely from them (other than the axles) and I will ship them the car to install everything. I'm sure their labor will be outstanding and that they will tune it at its best

Matt M

Mod list looks good, but you will need some fuel system mods. Also, do you plan to run ethanol or gas?

Ryan@zzp

I would save your money and run the ZZP rods. We have tested them to more than enough whp. We wouldn't run them in our race engines or sell them to our customers if they were not up to the task at hand. We do a good amount of testing on our engine products before we release them to the public. You can sleep soundly knowing that our rods are in your engine. For example, we tested my car to 898whp and 54psi, no rod falure. I had a vac line come off at CED and the boost was well over 50psi and an afr that wasn't even close to safe. The block broke, the piston was in the bore sideways, the head was ruined, but the rod never broke. Go Fast Not Broke, buy ZZP

AyrtonSenna

Didn't decide yet. There is an E85 gas station by me, which I will probably use. Can we do a dual tune in case I decide to use 93 fuel pump for a period, expecially in the winter? As far as fuel mods, what do you need? Meth kit? Bigger injectors? I've also seen somebody saying that they have a 5th injector. Which one of the above would apply to me?

I know that your products are outstanding, but I'm really in love with Carrillos. Besides, saving $ 500 over a 10k build it doesn't make much difference. Just one thing: since I'm planning to make this car really extreme, how did you get 900whp??? What do you have to be able to run 54psi? I'm looking to make this car extreme because I have another LNF 2009 which I intend to keep just bolts-on and tuned, and this one I want to build it really crazy.

AyrtonSenna

Zooomer already told me by sending me a PM that it is possible with no problem, but since you guys chimed in, I wanted to just double check this question.
Will the Supertech .5mm oversized inconel valves work correctly with your head/cam combo?

Matt M

It will be easier to hit your power goals on Ethanol. Our 5th injector kit and fuel pump lobe along with an Aeromotive in-tank pump will support 600whp. You can run a larger 5th injector to push 650. Adding a boost reference on the in-tank pump could possibly get you to 700whp. Unless your car is less than 2500lbs race ready, that much power will destroy transmissions left and right. Plus, a 700whp 2.1 liter setup will not spool at <3500rpm like you are looking for. You'd be looking at a 62mm turbo minimum.

Matt M

They could be installed, but that doesn't necessarily mean more power. DI motors require more attention to detail in the intake ports and combustion chamber design to function properly.

Matt M

With our pump lobe and injection timing alterations, you can get to 525whp on gas, maybe a little more. Of course it depends on the RPM of the motor considering that the output from the hpfp increases with engine speed. Switching to E85, you are looking at more in the range of 475whp max. You can add our 5th injector to get a little further, but the in-tank pump won't get too much further. I would upgrade the in-tank pump on anything over 500whp on e85.

It's tough to put a recommendation on when to run forged pistons. The stock pistons will hold up fine at 600whp if you run good fuel and a reasonable tune. The further you stray from these conditions, the sooner you will need forged pistons.

zrated89

iTrader: (15)

imo oversized valves are not worth the money for the minimal results they would yield

AyrtonSenna

What do you think the spooling time will be with a 62mm T/C? On this car I want to try to go for the extreme, the other one will be mild.

Well, they don't cost much compared to the whole cost of the build, so minus as well doing it, since the block will be opened

AyrtonSenna

525whp on gas and 475whp on e85?

jarhead

Yes sorry Ayrton, He was answering some of my questions that is that with E needing more fuel the cutoff would be 475 to 500 Hp w/o needing an in tank pump upgrade, He was not saying that Gas makes more Hp than E! Where with gas the max would be about 525 or so max. W/O needing the in tank pump. The E will make a lot more than 525hp to a point then would require a 5th injector to go even further on the E for even higher Hp numbers all 3 fueling upgrades are required. In tank pump upgrade,Cams with lobe upgrade and a 5th injector.

Thanks for the info Matt M. that helped a lot and also the piston info.

Matt M

Depends on the exhaust housing and wheel, but most likely over 4000rpm before it does much at all.


The problem is that people often make their car worse while following the concept of "might as well do it right" or "what's the difference when I am already spending this much?"

Matt M

I'm just throwing some ball-park figures out there. It is different on every car and varies by what rpm you make peak power at.

FasterIsBetter

Fully built bottom end and top end with electric water pump and neutral balance shafts. What can the LNF rev out to safely? I personally was thinking ~9000rpm but then theres the issue of maybe the hpfp floating and being smacked around. Have you found ways around that issue such as a stronger return spring or upgraded hpfp? yet?

Matt M

With good valvesprings, you could rev out to 9000 rpm, but the problem is making power up there. Unfortunately, the cam phasing doesn't cooperate at RPMs that high.

FasterIsBetter

Gotcha. Was wondering for those who wanna run large a/r turbos.

blrt

Wise decision. Good luck with your build. I am sure it will be one special lnf once she's done.

blrt

To do a 500 whp on pump gas - ported Stage 1 ported head and forged engine should do the trick and very reliable/safe DD?

AyrtonSenna

Thank you. I'm sure it will become special. My other one will stay bolts-on for daily driving

Matt M

500 on pump gas is tough. You would need an open exhaust for maximum efficiency. Both your cat and recirc watsegate would be serious restrictions at that power level. Ported head would help, and forged pistons would add a safety margin, but a 500whp pump gas lnf would be pushed pretty hard to get there.

mongorat427

iTrader: (82)

My head is done except for the cams. I cleaned up the intake port and smoothed out the short turn radius under the valves without taking out too much material and smoothed out the castings. Hope to have everything I need by March. Being a jobber helps a lot.

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

There is a sharp break in the intake port. It's easy to take out and produces large CFM gains on the test bench. Unfortunately this doesn't translate into real world performance. If you rounded it out, you might at well throw the heads in the trash and start over.

It's generally not a good idea to do something unless it's needed and tested. Anything you do that's outside of what people are already doing and having success with opens the door for performance issues and less reliability. Trust me, there's a reason we do things exactly as we do. Many of our customers say 'I want to do what you guys did...except add XXX' and there is pretty much a 100% track record of that not working out so well in 10+yrs of us doing it.
We've spent and easy 200k getting to where we are now with just the LNF. You can do that 200k of work for less than 10k now because we know what to do. To 'try something else' be prepared to spend insane amounts of $ if you really want to blaze a new trail.

zrated89

iTrader: (15)

so many people on here dont understand that though. Young guys with too much parents monies