Matt M

I know that RPM is only required for tq readings on a chassis dyno. Apparently he doesn't understand this.

You clamied 480 something and when asked for proof, you posted a vid of a sub 430 pull. Now you want to talk about how you proved something. There's no 480 graph, no video, no track times to back it up... Who knows how these things work now?

CudaJoe

iTrader: (1)

*theres not enough popcorn in the world to grab for this internet slugfest* ...



*grabs popcorn anyways*

06blackg85ss

iTrader: (1)

nope all I claimed was 438whp @18.9psi and 9500 rpm est @500+whp on 27psi, but as I said, only an estimate.
and I blew the motor the night before I was going to the track on 27psi.
all those things I claime, proof was provided for all asked for info....
and what would track times have to do with my claim for running the hp and rpm I "claimed"

06black

HP= ((Torque * RPM) / 5252)

if you don't pull of the coil pack, how does one get an accurate rpm reading?

trying to correlate engine RPM to roller RPM?
yea, that's accurate.

Matt M

LOL. Nice dyno chart. A 586 whp 2 liter that peaks 6300RPM on low boost. This is comical. I would believe you if you said this was your 3800 turbo setup.

06black

i'll even add in the fact about it having a shot on it.
i'll put it in blue!

gimme a moment.

22psi isnt low in my world.

a milid cam peaks early, the car doesnt have enough in it, cam wise, to be awesome all the way to 8200.

Matt M

I'm not sure what you are arguing here. Everyone knows the hp to torque formula. I didn't say anything about that. I was pointing out how you thought a dyno could not accurately report WHP if you didn't read RPMs. Now you are just talking about something else to avoid the point I made.

06black

you said.
thus, i ask you.

given the formula, how do you finish that calculation with out RPM?



let me ask you, why dont you want to show the lower end of your dyno chart, if / when you take one?
if the things flat on its ass to 3600, then fine, i was just curious.

Matt M

Ok, so now the truth comes out. 586whp on 22psi and nitrous is believeable. This is why I said the sig numbers were BS. Without nitrous, they wouldn't happen. 586whp at 22psi would have to take place at 8000+ RPM, and the torque would then obviously be much lower. On the bottle it makes sense to have 586/502.

06black

i'll add the note, no bullshit, just to clear things up.

i've said i've been useing it to wake up the turbo for a while now, kinda figured it was a known.

i started with one of thouse "spool only" kits, but **** that stuff is addictive!!!!!

car is useless. utterly useless. but good for a show of tire smoke down the highway. this year the turbo is comeing down in size, cam is going up a bit.
going for something a bit more liniar.

Matt M

The dyno doesn't calculate HP, it measures it. It does not need RPM to measure HP.

When I dyno again, I will set it up to sample sooner. Of cousre I will have to compare to your now admitted nitrous pulls spooling your turbo much sooner than it otherwise would. Now others will see why I would be hesitant to take a bunch of time to aquire data for you.

06black

i was never going to compare your numbers to mine, the turbos we use are of far different types. the spray is small, but good for some decent rpm. street wise, this guy was up by 5200-5400

i wanted the lower end data more to see how the BW turbos wake up. there's the whole ETT vs HTA fight going on. so why pass up a chance to see more data of the transient response of one of the BW units?

also, i still dont see this request as that time consuming. i'd have to assume that your gonna have the car on the dyno more for your own development. my request is nothing more then a sample window change.

you measure HP thru torque tho. that's why dynos have "big" load cells.

Matt M

Torque where? The dyno does not need to know anything about engine RPM or torque the car is producing. It only needs to monitor the rate at which the drum accellerates to measure HP. There is no TQ in any formula involving accelleration. The dyno simply measure HP and than calculates TQ based on HP and RPM using a formula similar to what you posted, except in the other direction, obviously.

06black

every dyno i've seen used engine RPM and an applied load cell that's compensated for roller mass and a drag constant. save for the mega buck eddie currant units in the devel world.

the ones i've used, used what i would call a "controllable viscus coupling". normally with water load.

the constant is what requires consistent calibration.

I'll admit, i've used only a few non currant based dynos in my days. I have one devel unit that i've used for years.

i've yet to see one of the eddie currant dynos in the normal world. have you?

purely curious, i'm wondering who might have spent the $$ for one.


edit-
one more weird one i can think about, the water brake based ones, that measure inlet and outlet water temps to determine the work done, thus power.

edit2- sry for messin up the thread, i just keep thinkin about the other variants i've seen.

HunterKiller89

iTrader: (1)

while i REALLY dont know **** on dynos, as i have never been dynoed, it is my understanding that for the majority of dynos matt's explanation is correct. Acceleration of the rollers is measured as HP, and that power can be translated into torque once given an RPM to accompany that HP. Most dynos are not force meters, they are power meters.
again tho...im a dyno noob..

06black

I'd fully admit he might be correct for 99.8% of dynos, with my small experiences with non eddie currant dynos being the outliers of the dyno trend plot.

i'd fully admit that being possible. I've stuck with the same two dynos for years now. both currant based dynos.

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

Why have I read like 15 minutes of 06black bitching about how many dyno charts Matt has posted or what rpm he started them at or how he did them, when 06 is claiming record #'s but refuses to post his dyno?

And didn't this happen the last time 06 was running his mouth? He made a 500WHP claim and then posted a dyno less than 450 and paper raced it past 500 from there?

damien

iTrader: (3)

Once again, you're confusing 06black with 06blackg85ss.

Matt M

Mustang Dynos use Eddy current absorption.

You are correct when you say they determine the "work done." This is horsepower, and the dyno can measure it without having any idea what RPM the engine is running at. To figure out torque, the dyno computer will need to know engine RPM and calculate the value.

glen229

iTrader: (4)

its like vendor argument day

Area47

i has a belly button. i putz muh finger in it

Deadman

What does stock DI injectors fire @ on the cobalt? What is stock pressure of the hp fuel pump on this car? What was used to increase pressure to 2750psi.. was the hard line opened up..upgraded in tank pump?

jb09ss

How can a thread about a turbo upgrade and a solution to raise the power limit of the LNF by 25% can turn into a bitching fest and dyno theory argumentation ??

Anyway, it's awesome that a vendor finally has a solution for those seeking big hp numbers. It's also very interesting that the LNF can spool that turbo in the mid 3k rpm and have a 4k rpm power band.

Deadman

can someone link me to the fuel issue thread? Also Matt can you elaborate more on the fueling system? This is still using DI short ass injection windows right ? lol (obviously when you can push more psi im guessing you are shoving a lot more fuel in to that small window now)

Matt M

We are over 3000psi, but I can't offer much information at this time. I can say that we are working on an inexpensive product to raise fuel pressure.