2.8 42s dyno results...
05-22-2008, 11:55 AM
#53
Lot's of things I see people failing to understand in this thread. Let me state a few things for the record. These are based on me and my company spending nearly every day of the last 8 years working on this and testing parts/ideas.
1. Every dyno reads differently. You cannot compare one dyno directly with another unless it's the same dyno. There can be variations of up to 10% but there will always be some variation.
2. You cannot tune the Ecotec and then add Meth injection without changing the tune. First of all a 50/50 mix with 1/2 being water will always have a net negative HP potential. It's not possible on this platform to increase HP over a properly tuned setup by adding that mixture and retuning. If you managed to gain HP over the run w/o the 50/50 mix, it was because the car wasn't optimumly tuned in the first place. Want to challenge me? We own a dyno. I'll put up $1000 if you can prove me wrong and the dyno time will be free. If you lose, dyno time is still free but you owe me $1000. Cash bet.
Now, adding alcohol alone raises octane and will allow more boost or timing thus increasing the HP potential, however in this case you took a car with a ZZP tune and added alcohol AKA more fuel. The car is now running rich and these cars lose massive HP running rich compared to lean.
3. An exhaust will make your car faster. The scientific methods of some of you guys is terrible. You do a test and then make all sorts of conclusions based on it without controlling the experiment. If you went to aftermarket exhaust components and the car slowed down then one of many things happed. Either a. The car is much heavier b. The tune changed from the increase in flow robbing HP c. the exhaust had an issue making it flow worse than stock d. there is something else we haven't discovered.
But I hear this stuff all the time. I added boost and my car got slower! Seriously, NA guys have told me that. So what should we assume? That there is a problem or that boost doesn't work?
1. Every dyno reads differently. You cannot compare one dyno directly with another unless it's the same dyno. There can be variations of up to 10% but there will always be some variation.
2. You cannot tune the Ecotec and then add Meth injection without changing the tune. First of all a 50/50 mix with 1/2 being water will always have a net negative HP potential. It's not possible on this platform to increase HP over a properly tuned setup by adding that mixture and retuning. If you managed to gain HP over the run w/o the 50/50 mix, it was because the car wasn't optimumly tuned in the first place. Want to challenge me? We own a dyno. I'll put up $1000 if you can prove me wrong and the dyno time will be free. If you lose, dyno time is still free but you owe me $1000. Cash bet.
Now, adding alcohol alone raises octane and will allow more boost or timing thus increasing the HP potential, however in this case you took a car with a ZZP tune and added alcohol AKA more fuel. The car is now running rich and these cars lose massive HP running rich compared to lean.
3. An exhaust will make your car faster. The scientific methods of some of you guys is terrible. You do a test and then make all sorts of conclusions based on it without controlling the experiment. If you went to aftermarket exhaust components and the car slowed down then one of many things happed. Either a. The car is much heavier b. The tune changed from the increase in flow robbing HP c. the exhaust had an issue making it flow worse than stock d. there is something else we haven't discovered.
But I hear this stuff all the time. I added boost and my car got slower! Seriously, NA guys have told me that. So what should we assume? That there is a problem or that boost doesn't work?
05-22-2008, 12:01 PM
#54
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so, what you're blindly saying is. a car that is perfectly tuned, then meth was added, the car won't see anymore power if it was tuned for the meth?
well, i can see the untuned for meth part killing power. i have done that myself. once tweeked on. it picked up a lot.
well, i can see the untuned for meth part killing power. i have done that myself. once tweeked on. it picked up a lot.
05-22-2008, 12:06 PM
#55
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I got tuned saturday on a dyno and I picked up 15-20 hp running a 50/50 mix and Stevo can back me on this cuz he was the tuner.
05-22-2008, 12:49 PM
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05-22-2008, 01:03 PM
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And why the hell would anyone make an aftermarket performance exhaust if it actually hurt performance... Companies wouldn't be waisting their time making performance exhausts if they decreased performance. I'm sure they are dyno'd to produce more power.
05-22-2008, 02:05 PM
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this is what i got from reading it too... the only reason i am running meth is because i was the one making all those posts about if you could run the GM STAGE# 100OCT TUNE with meth inj insteads of race gas in the tank... which worked very well... and was basically a tune for meth, now that summer is back im running my zzp pcm so i can use ac...
but yes of coarse it will run richer when meth is injected BUT shouldent we be able to say that.......
1. when you spray a dry shot of nitrious, the ecm detects lean cond and the fuel injectors add more fuel....
2. so shouldent you be able to say this would have the other effect if the o2 senses to rich then the inj should decrease fuel flow.... is there something im missing?
but yes of coarse it will run richer when meth is injected BUT shouldent we be able to say that.......
1. when you spray a dry shot of nitrious, the ecm detects lean cond and the fuel injectors add more fuel....
2. so shouldent you be able to say this would have the other effect if the o2 senses to rich then the inj should decrease fuel flow.... is there something im missing?
05-22-2008, 02:08 PM
#61
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05-22-2008, 02:11 PM
#62
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Lot's of things I see people failing to understand in this thread. Let me state a few things for the record. These are based on me and my company spending nearly every day of the last 8 years working on this and testing parts/ideas.
1. Every dyno reads differently. You cannot compare one dyno directly with another unless it's the same dyno. There can be variations of up to 10% but there will always be some variation.
2. You cannot tune the Ecotec and then add Meth injection without changing the tune. First of all a 50/50 mix with 1/2 being water will always have a net negative HP potential. It's not possible on this platform to increase HP over a properly tuned setup by adding that mixture and retuning. If you managed to gain HP over the run w/o the 50/50 mix, it was because the car wasn't optimumly tuned in the first place. Want to challenge me? We own a dyno. I'll put up $1000 if you can prove me wrong and the dyno time will be free. If you lose, dyno time is still free but you owe me $1000. Cash bet.
Now, adding alcohol alone raises octane and will allow more boost or timing thus increasing the HP potential, however in this case you took a car with a ZZP tune and added alcohol AKA more fuel. The car is now running rich and these cars lose massive HP running rich compared to lean.
3. An exhaust will make your car faster. The scientific methods of some of you guys is terrible. You do a test and then make all sorts of conclusions based on it without controlling the experiment. If you went to aftermarket exhaust components and the car slowed down then one of many things happed. Either a. The car is much heavier b. The tune changed from the increase in flow robbing HP c. the exhaust had an issue making it flow worse than stock d. there is something else we haven't discovered.
But I hear this stuff all the time. I added boost and my car got slower! Seriously, NA guys have told me that. So what should we assume? That there is a problem or that boost doesn't work?
1. Every dyno reads differently. You cannot compare one dyno directly with another unless it's the same dyno. There can be variations of up to 10% but there will always be some variation.
2. You cannot tune the Ecotec and then add Meth injection without changing the tune. First of all a 50/50 mix with 1/2 being water will always have a net negative HP potential. It's not possible on this platform to increase HP over a properly tuned setup by adding that mixture and retuning. If you managed to gain HP over the run w/o the 50/50 mix, it was because the car wasn't optimumly tuned in the first place. Want to challenge me? We own a dyno. I'll put up $1000 if you can prove me wrong and the dyno time will be free. If you lose, dyno time is still free but you owe me $1000. Cash bet.
Now, adding alcohol alone raises octane and will allow more boost or timing thus increasing the HP potential, however in this case you took a car with a ZZP tune and added alcohol AKA more fuel. The car is now running rich and these cars lose massive HP running rich compared to lean.
3. An exhaust will make your car faster. The scientific methods of some of you guys is terrible. You do a test and then make all sorts of conclusions based on it without controlling the experiment. If you went to aftermarket exhaust components and the car slowed down then one of many things happed. Either a. The car is much heavier b. The tune changed from the increase in flow robbing HP c. the exhaust had an issue making it flow worse than stock d. there is something else we haven't discovered.
But I hear this stuff all the time. I added boost and my car got slower! Seriously, NA guys have told me that. So what should we assume? That there is a problem or that boost doesn't work?
05-22-2008, 02:19 PM
#63
Senior Member
this is what i got from reading it too... the only reason i am running meth is because i was the one making all those posts about if you could run the GM STAGE# 100OCT TUNE with meth inj insteads of race gas in the tank... which worked very well... and was basically a tune for meth, now that summer is back im running my zzp pcm so i can use ac...
but yes of coarse it will run richer when meth is injected BUT shouldent we be able to say that.......
1. when you spray a dry shot of nitrious, the ecm detects lean cond and the fuel injectors add more fuel....
2. so shouldent you be able to say this would have the other effect if the o2 senses to rich then the inj should decrease fuel flow.... is there something im missing?
but yes of coarse it will run richer when meth is injected BUT shouldent we be able to say that.......
1. when you spray a dry shot of nitrious, the ecm detects lean cond and the fuel injectors add more fuel....
2. so shouldent you be able to say this would have the other effect if the o2 senses to rich then the inj should decrease fuel flow.... is there something im missing?
Last edited by Psykostevo; 05-22-2008 at 02:19 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
05-22-2008, 02:22 PM
#64
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okay, if you put a catless down pipe on your car and don't tune for it then its your fault you lost power. you have to turn off COT an a few other changes or else your second O2 sensor will tell your car that your cat is on fire. when it thinks that it dumps more fuel into your system, and your supercharger limits boost too if still on a canned tune. and running rich robs HP bad on these cars.
check out this link... nevermind ill just post what i have doneSpeed limiter removed
Raised rev limiter to 7200
Altered fan turn on keeps the IC radiator cooler at all times
WOT fueling is revamped to provide a safe, flat air/fuel ratio at all RPMs
420 code removed, COT turned off
Torque abuse modes are modified to eliminate bog during WOT
12 PSI boost limit is removed
Timing revamped for increased power
MAF/MAP tables adjusted for running smaller pulleys
Idle hunting from installation of larger injectors improved
05-22-2008, 08:03 PM
#65
Senior Member
so I suppose you turned the multipliers to nothing, and adjusted the temperature thresholds. code 420 is just the cat code, did you just disable the MIL light or set the code to "No Error Reported"?
05-23-2008, 12:58 AM
#67
you'd be suprised. markets like this buy on marketing hype and looks just as much as performance. We have tested many exhaust components that flowed worse than stock but were bought up by consumers who didn't know any better. Water injection is similar and easy to trick people because they measure temp drops and KR reduction and think that they are making more power.
05-23-2008, 10:29 AM
#69
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it depends on what you are injecting. If it's alcohol then of course you can tune in more power. Alcohol allows things that gas doesn't. If it's water, then no. There is no circumstance that water can make your car produce more power. If it's a mixture then it would depend on the concentration of each. In the case of an M62 powered Ecotec, a 50/50 mix cannot make power regardless of the tuning (unless it was out of tune for the gas only run).
you'd be suprised. markets like this buy on marketing hype and looks just as much as performance. We have tested many exhaust components that flowed worse than stock but were bought up by consumers who didn't know any better. Water injection is similar and easy to trick people because they measure temp drops and KR reduction and think that they are making more power.
you'd be suprised. markets like this buy on marketing hype and looks just as much as performance. We have tested many exhaust components that flowed worse than stock but were bought up by consumers who didn't know any better. Water injection is similar and easy to trick people because they measure temp drops and KR reduction and think that they are making more power.
gee, which ones makes more power.
id really like to see someone cram 24 degree's of timing down the throat of a none race gased/meth injected lsj on 12.0 afr at 3500 rpms.
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