2008 Cobalt SS is Turbocharged. the proof is in....
05-29-2006, 03:57 PM
#101
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I really don't see the LSJ being phased out that quickley, I work in the Automotive buisness (production side), and really doesn't make sense to me. GM went with a supercharge for a vary specific reason, it's not like the 2.0T is a newer engine then the LSJ. this engine was already available on the Opel & Vauxhaul Astras before I even ordered my SS/SC (I ordered it in Oct.2004). and what about the stage kits, why even go through all that trouble if there where plans to phase out the engine.
I understand plenty as far as it goes for model refreshing after a few years is commen, but that's usually in terms of reskinning the car, and the tooling is disgned to absorbe and compensate for these changes, and rarely effects the under body (I would know beacuse I've already design a dozen assembly lines and modified them for model changes or refreshing). but changeing over to a turbo is not soo easily done especially when it comes to the engine layout.
I understand plenty as far as it goes for model refreshing after a few years is commen, but that's usually in terms of reskinning the car, and the tooling is disgned to absorbe and compensate for these changes, and rarely effects the under body (I would know beacuse I've already design a dozen assembly lines and modified them for model changes or refreshing). but changeing over to a turbo is not soo easily done especially when it comes to the engine layout.
05-29-2006, 04:23 PM
#102
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260 hp...man I really hope all those 2008 Cobalt SS AWD (google cobalt ss awd) rumors were true, you guys wont have a chance of getting traction...and I'd LOVE to see this car with a turbocharger.
The only way I would get beat by them when I was stock is the S/C would just keep spinning and my turbo would run out of steam. So it would be the typical old get the jump on you crap and then you come walking back by. This would definately level the playing field.
I realize a turbocharger is more efficent then a supercharger but there was something about a supercharger that I just liked. It was different and interesting. Plus it made a hella cool noise with an intake.
At least with a turbocharged car upgrading it is practically limitless. Want more power, throw on a bigger turbo. On my car thats a whopping hours worth of work. Removing the stock cats from the exhaust on a turbocharged car usually can net 20-50hp. Of course alot of dynotuning is required.
The only way I would get beat by them when I was stock is the S/C would just keep spinning and my turbo would run out of steam. So it would be the typical old get the jump on you crap and then you come walking back by. This would definately level the playing field.
I realize a turbocharger is more efficent then a supercharger but there was something about a supercharger that I just liked. It was different and interesting. Plus it made a hella cool noise with an intake.
At least with a turbocharged car upgrading it is practically limitless. Want more power, throw on a bigger turbo. On my car thats a whopping hours worth of work. Removing the stock cats from the exhaust on a turbocharged car usually can net 20-50hp. Of course alot of dynotuning is required.
05-29-2006, 04:26 PM
#104
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Don't hold you breath in regards to an AWD Cobalt....I'm not saying its not a neat idea...I just really don't see it happening. GM's never really been into the Car + AWD scene.
05-29-2006, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by CynicX
At least with a turbocharged car upgrading it is practically limitless. Want more power, throw on a bigger turbo. On my car thats a whopping hours worth of work. Removing the stock cats from the exhaust on a turbocharged car usually can net 20-50hp. Of course alot of dynotuning is required.
hell with a supercharger you could easily effect the cars power and efficiency but +or - 15HP just by swapping pulleys, it doesnt get much easier then that
05-29-2006, 04:58 PM
#106
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Originally Posted by player_1
you do realize that the same statement is true for a supercharger, just use gm stage one as an example.
hell with a supercharger you could easily effect the cars power and efficiency but +or - 15HP just by swapping pulleys, it doesnt get much easier then that
hell with a supercharger you could easily effect the cars power and efficiency but +or - 15HP just by swapping pulleys, it doesnt get much easier then that
But once you put the smallest pulley on and get that 15+ hp then what do you do? Thats FAR from limitless to me.
Where as a turbocharger, take mine for example since I know more about my WRX then I know about other turbocharged cars. Stock I have the rather small TD04 turbo, I can max it out around 260ish AWHP (this is where I'm at now, stock is around 200-220 dyno depending), then I could go to any turbo I want VF39 (same thats on the STI) for around 200-300 bucks used and max it out around 280-300 HP. Or an 18g and max it out around 330ish HP. I could keep going to any turbo setup I want GT30 - 390 HP, GT35 - 400+HP.
With a supercharger you stuck unless someone offers a bolt up replacment.
Really the sky is the limit for turbos. Obviously much past a 20G turbo is the limits of the stock block. There are members of nasioc.com (subaru form) that have gotten low 12's in the 06 WRX with exhaust, STI top mount intercooler, STI VF39 Turbo, engine managment.
So I guess what I was trying to say, but worded a little more clearly is. You can get max power with mimal work and money from turbocharged vehicles vs supercharged vehicles.
05-29-2006, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Spoony
Don't hold you breath in regards to an AWD Cobalt....I'm not saying its not a neat idea...I just really don't see it happening. GM's never really been into the Car + AWD scene.
05-29-2006, 06:24 PM
#108
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Originally Posted by JCswoosher2
I was readingthe brand new GM High Tech performance and on page 10 it says. that the 260 hp turbocharged engine will be going into the 2008 Cobalt SS and Redline. Go check it out yourself. Its a small paragraph right up. but all i can say about it is DAMNIT!!!!
I should have waited. A Turbo'ed Cobalt SS will whip a Superchargered SS. IMO
I should have waited. A Turbo'ed Cobalt SS will whip a Superchargered SS. IMO
This is the same engine as the '07 Solstice GXP. 260hp/260tq
05-29-2006, 06:30 PM
#109
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You don't have to wait until the '08 SS comes out. I'm guessing if you want to know how the engine runs/feel...then buy or test drive an '07 Solistice
I would love to but I'm in the Uk
Another pic(bad web cam)
I would love to but I'm in the UkAnother pic(bad web cam)
05-29-2006, 08:41 PM
#110
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Originally Posted by Spoony
Don't hold you breath in regards to an AWD Cobalt....I'm not saying its not a neat idea...I just really don't see it happening. GM's never really been into the Car + AWD scene.
05-29-2006, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by CynicX
I realize it easier to increase the HP of a supercharger by reducing pulley size, yes. I've owned 2 supercharged vehicles in my life.
But once you put the smallest pulley on and get that 15+ hp then what do you do? Thats FAR from limitless to me.
Where as a turbocharger, take mine for example since I know more about my WRX then I know about other turbocharged cars. Stock I have the rather small TD04 turbo, I can max it out around 260ish AWHP (this is where I'm at now, stock is around 200-220 dyno depending), then I could go to any turbo I want VF39 (same thats on the STI) for around 200-300 bucks used and max it out around 280-300 HP. Or an 18g and max it out around 330ish HP. I could keep going to any turbo setup I want GT30 - 390 HP, GT35 - 400+HP.
With a supercharger you stuck unless someone offers a bolt up replacment.
Really the sky is the limit for turbos. Obviously much past a 20G turbo is the limits of the stock block. There are members of nasioc.com (subaru form) that have gotten low 12's in the 06 WRX with exhaust, STI top mount intercooler, STI VF39 Turbo, engine managment.
So I guess what I was trying to say, but worded a little more clearly is. You can get max power with mimal work and money from turbocharged vehicles vs supercharged vehicles.
But once you put the smallest pulley on and get that 15+ hp then what do you do? Thats FAR from limitless to me.
Where as a turbocharger, take mine for example since I know more about my WRX then I know about other turbocharged cars. Stock I have the rather small TD04 turbo, I can max it out around 260ish AWHP (this is where I'm at now, stock is around 200-220 dyno depending), then I could go to any turbo I want VF39 (same thats on the STI) for around 200-300 bucks used and max it out around 280-300 HP. Or an 18g and max it out around 330ish HP. I could keep going to any turbo setup I want GT30 - 390 HP, GT35 - 400+HP.
With a supercharger you stuck unless someone offers a bolt up replacment.
Really the sky is the limit for turbos. Obviously much past a 20G turbo is the limits of the stock block. There are members of nasioc.com (subaru form) that have gotten low 12's in the 06 WRX with exhaust, STI top mount intercooler, STI VF39 Turbo, engine managment.
So I guess what I was trying to say, but worded a little more clearly is. You can get max power with mimal work and money from turbocharged vehicles vs supercharged vehicles.
hit 4k rpms and that thing pulls!
05-29-2006, 11:59 PM
#113
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Originally Posted by Spoony
This is true, turbo generally makes power CHEAPER, but to say it makes alot more power ehh...it's true again but kinda misleading, as it leads to the thinking that "turbo > supercharger". There's always a tradeoff, turbo's have more potential issues then superchargers. Boost leaks, hoses blowing off, all the extra heat created, turbo lag (yes, to make a LOT Of power you're going to want to put a larger turbo on there, which means you will have some lag). Look at S3 for the SRT..what's included in it? a new Turbo, Larger turbo = more turbo lag. Look at cars like the high HP supra's, I've seen videos where cars are ahead of them for a good while until the turbo's spool up and then they take off like a rocketship...this is fun for the kick in the ass feeling...but for a daily driver? no thanks.
Before you max out the stock supercharger you're going to need to replace some engine internals anyway, I believe this is right around the 300hp point. Not to mention some people have mentioned axels breaking and things of this nature before the 300hp mark. The supercharger isn't what's holding this car back, and when it comes to the point that it is, you would have to modify (see intense stage kits) or replace it with a larger(or more efficient) S/C. I'm in no way saying superchargers don't have drawbacks, they do but I can't for the life of me figure out why everyone wants a turbo...if it's to beat SRT-4's their turbo isn't the only reason they're faster, they also have .4l more displacement. Dodge had to make some comprimises that affect comfort / Daily driving pleasure to make that car as fast as it is...to sum it all up. You shoulda just bought an SRT-4 if all you wanted was a really fast car.
edit: If Turbo's were outright superior to Superchargers, they'd be used on pro drag cars...but they're not, I wonder why that is?
I realize our cars have nothing to do with pro drag cars, but neither does a turbo vs supercharger argument.
Before you max out the stock supercharger you're going to need to replace some engine internals anyway, I believe this is right around the 300hp point. Not to mention some people have mentioned axels breaking and things of this nature before the 300hp mark. The supercharger isn't what's holding this car back, and when it comes to the point that it is, you would have to modify (see intense stage kits) or replace it with a larger(or more efficient) S/C. I'm in no way saying superchargers don't have drawbacks, they do but I can't for the life of me figure out why everyone wants a turbo...if it's to beat SRT-4's their turbo isn't the only reason they're faster, they also have .4l more displacement. Dodge had to make some comprimises that affect comfort / Daily driving pleasure to make that car as fast as it is...to sum it all up. You shoulda just bought an SRT-4 if all you wanted was a really fast car.
edit: If Turbo's were outright superior to Superchargers, they'd be used on pro drag cars...but they're not, I wonder why that is?
I realize our cars have nothing to do with pro drag cars, but neither does a turbo vs supercharger argument.
05-30-2006, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by 8cd03gro
i am not trying to be an ass, and please don't take this offensively, but the redline just doesnt appeal to very many people. It has alot of cool features and a very different look, but that look just doesnt appeal to many. i think it is pretty cool and it really stands out, but many people think it is ugly, and most people don't just buy a car for performance.
05-30-2006, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by TxLonghorn#1
You don't have to wait until the '08 SS comes out. I'm guessing if you want to know how the engine runs/feel...then buy or test drive an '07 Solistice I would love to but I'm in the Uk
Another pic(bad web cam)
I would love to but I'm in the UkAnother pic(bad web cam)
even if GM decided to change ALL the mounting points and shift the engine forward (a catastrophy of engineering changes and reprocusions. for every peice of tooling that makes even a secondary contact and probaly a change in some PLP holes) if they were to changes like that at a whim
for GM decads ago.as for the options of upgrading turbos the same can be done with superchargers.
definitely not as easy. but you really should have to upgrade your FI sytem, until your internals have been fully upgraded.
when a FI system is selected and sized for a car, you always best to size it correctly.
if you just throw a bigger turbo, or supercharger, then you'll either get turbo lag. or your supercharger will draw more power from the engine.
there has got to be a point when you have to tell yourself that hey. throwing in a bigger turbo is not providing enough benifits, and now what. I've always been a firm beleiver that if you want real power you build inside out. because once you built you engine up, then you'll be able to proberly size you FI upgrade, so you don't get lag, or to much power draw.
05-30-2006, 09:23 AM
#117
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Originally Posted by Spoony
Don't hold you breath in regards to an AWD Cobalt....I'm not saying its not a neat idea...I just really don't see it happening. GM's never really been into the Car + AWD scene.
05-30-2006, 10:05 AM
#118
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Why do you guys talk about the Astra so much...you should be looking at the 2.0L Turbo from the Vauxhall VX220. It's the same as our motor and the platform the Sky and Solstice are on. And on Top Gear the host guy said it was the most fun car he has ever driven
05-30-2006, 10:31 AM
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the Astra is the car with our plateform and has the 2.0T looking at the VX220, is tha same as looking at the sky which does use no good, because the engines are mounted diferentely.
05-30-2006, 05:24 PM
#120
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Originally Posted by Spoony
edit: If Turbo's were outright superior to Superchargers, they'd be used on pro drag cars...but they're not, I wonder why that is? I realize our cars have nothing to do with pro drag cars, but neither does a turbo vs supercharger argument.
I realize our cars have nothing to do with pro drag cars, but neither does a turbo vs supercharger argument.I have owned and driven both, each has is advantage over the other. However, as long as you have forced induction, then your always going to be better off as far as producing large horsepower numbers. (If thats your intention).
Anywho, by the time the 08 cobalt is being pumped out, the new Camaro, GTO, Challanger, and GT 500 will all be out, or just about out. By that time, I hope to have one of those, and maybe retain the S/C I have now for just a daily commuter.
Chris~
05-30-2006, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by player_1
no way will that engine ever fit inside our engine bay.
even if GM decided to change ALL the mounting points and shift the engine forward (a catastrophy of engineering changes and reprocusions. for every peice of tooling that makes even a secondary contact and probaly a change in some PLP holes) if they were to changes like that at a whim for GM decads ago.
as for the options of upgrading turbos the same can be done with superchargers.
definitely not as easy. but you really should have to upgrade your FI sytem, until your internals have been fully upgraded.
when a FI system is selected and sized for a car, you always best to size it correctly.
if you just throw a bigger turbo, or supercharger, then you'll either get turbo lag. or your supercharger will draw more power from the engine.
there has got to be a point when you have to tell yourself that hey. throwing in a bigger turbo is not providing enough benifits, and now what. I've always been a firm beleiver that if you want real power you build inside out. because once you built you engine up, then you'll be able to proberly size you FI upgrade, so you don't get lag, or to much power draw.
even if GM decided to change ALL the mounting points and shift the engine forward (a catastrophy of engineering changes and reprocusions. for every peice of tooling that makes even a secondary contact and probaly a change in some PLP holes) if they were to changes like that at a whim
for GM decads ago.as for the options of upgrading turbos the same can be done with superchargers.
definitely not as easy. but you really should have to upgrade your FI sytem, until your internals have been fully upgraded.
when a FI system is selected and sized for a car, you always best to size it correctly.
if you just throw a bigger turbo, or supercharger, then you'll either get turbo lag. or your supercharger will draw more power from the engine.
there has got to be a point when you have to tell yourself that hey. throwing in a bigger turbo is not providing enough benifits, and now what. I've always been a firm beleiver that if you want real power you build inside out. because once you built you engine up, then you'll be able to proberly size you FI upgrade, so you don't get lag, or to much power draw.
05-31-2006, 02:07 AM
#123
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ive always said that the s/c's days were numbered , and i heard that before the cobalts came out
the s/c was gonna stay for a few years , then disapear to the use of a turbo
the s/c was gonna stay for a few years , then disapear to the use of a turbo
05-31-2006, 09:18 AM
#124
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Originally Posted by cobaltR
Why wont a turbo fit???? I'm not sure why u think a turbo wouldnt fit...maybe they'll adjust space via the firewall who knows....u have no idea what gm is going to do and neither do I. But if there are turbo kits coming out for the 2.2 and they fit fine...I know its not the 2.0...but the fact is a turbo can fit and maybe gm will use a smaller turbo than the one used for the 260hp version of the 2.0t. I dont think gm will need to go to the extreme of pushing the motor forward, tilted....changing mounts.....they're not going to put a turbo like this on the ss....then it would require do everything you've said...https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16139 thats just my opinion,
05-31-2006, 03:15 PM
#125
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The GTO is dead after this year, but there is rumor of a new Firebird/Trans Am based off the new Camaro. The 1st gen T/A looked like the 1st gen Camaro that the new Camaro is based off of. It's do-able. Look at this months Hot Rod Magazine. They also have a LS7 powered Solstice they built with GM performance in there to. BAD A$$!