alaskacobalt

I just got done talking to Underground Performance here in Anchorage and they seem to think that they can get 350-400 WHP just by boring out the supercharger and engine, changing the compression, tuning, and basically doing a lot of things that don't involve any new parts, just making the current parts more efficient. I personally think that's a big stretch for the Balt. They are telling me they could hit these numbers and it would cost me $2-$5K to have it done. Anyone think this is ****? Somehow to me this just doesn't seem plausible to me without other serious upgrades.

Also... if I were able to hit that number, besides upgrading Axles, tranny parts what would I need to upgrade? I'm assuming some handling modifications, but when you are just enhancing efficiency, will I require other items such as the dual pass and H/E? I have a Stage 3 GM pulley on there right now... And should I switch from my 2 step colder plugs to Zex?

an0malous

pistons wont handle it for sure....

2K5SS/SC?

If they are boring out the blower and engine, then he will obviously need upgraded pistons to which 350whp will be very possible.

alaskacobalt

I was telling them that there's no way that the car could handle that much with all stock internals... but they have done quite a bit of work, with no complaints that I've heard of, but I'm sure that would change with me if I let them do the work without a few upgrades first...

alaskacobalt

What about upgraded springs? seals? That sort of stuff. This is definitely outside my area of specialty, hahaha... which is why I'm not doing it myself. I've got a stage 3 Clutch on order with a new flywheel to handle that side of things. I ordered a tranny mount, engine mount, and engine dampener... axles are on order as well... so I guess if I add in the upgraded racing pistons plus related internals... I should be good?

RedEcotecSS

make them warranty it. tell them if anything breaks, they are to fix it. then go for it!

FryLoch

iTrader: (5)

If it's bored out it has to have larger pistons. I dont think the crank could handle that power either.

XCRuna1201

Whens the BALT trip cause I will join yall from Atlanta

Area47

the blower won't support 350whp

Mikey851

Actually if they increased the displacement enough and changed the compression I believe the blower would flow JUST enough to support 350WHP if ported. It would be a HUGE stretch and IMO not worth it.

Let me look at the flow chart one more time just to make sure, but I'm pretty sure it would not be feasible to use the stock blower to make that kind of power, even with changes made to the engine.

The engine's weak point are the pistons. The crank and rods can take the 350WHP but the pistons cannot. Also you are correct that you will probably need springs to take the RPMs and new cam which you will need to make the power depending on your setup. Everything else on the engine is actually really stout.

I kind of like the direction that the shop you talked to seems to want to go in except for the fact that they want to use the M62. I don't know why people keep ignoring the GM 300HP+ build as a basis. It's 10.0:1 forged aluminum piston, springs, cams, dual pass plate and custom shorty headers. That coupled with the Stage II kit on a custom tune yeilded 300+HP and everything was stock except for what I mentioned above.

I'm not saying to follow their build exactly, but they did that build to specifically show how much the stock components can take and they made numerous comments about certain components being able to take much more power such as the crank.

Area47

is the juice worth the squeeze?
nope.
build a short block, port the head. leave the blower alone with a 2.8
60lbers
bigger pump
hit it with 100 shot

1fstss

you can do it with a piston swap, ported blower, supporting mods, good tuning and nitrous

Area47

id trust ray charles to port the blower before id pick someone else to do it.

you do not have to port the blower. it's not a gen III.

1fstss

porting the blower helps with spool up time. it makes a huge differance.

Mikey851

Damnit, you and your self answered questions j/k. I wouldn't go that route either, that's why I said it's not worth it in my post. Was I right? Yes I was .

alaskacobalt

The Baltrip is ONE Balt... hahaha... but if you want to join in the trip, by all means... that would be wicked if I got people to join me as I entered their state... and then we all met up in Florida... that would be one hell of a Cobalt party!

As for the upgrade, I am starting to really like the way they are directing me to go. Originally I was going to go all turbo, but by the sounds of it, with enhanced efficiency, I can achieve the same power, for less cost than what I would need for turbo. A turbo fully installed would cost me around $5K I would imagine and if they did all of this work, including the install of the clutch, flywheel, pistons, springs, H/E, dual pass, meth/water all at the same time for the same price as it would cost me for the turbo and install... I think this is the better way to go... but now I'm interested in the suggested engine swap... that could be a viable alternative, but I cringe at the thought of how expensive it would be to ship an engine to Alaska. That alone would probably bring the cost up so much that it wouldn't be worth it.

I guess ultimately with my goal of 350-400 whp, this should be more than enough, especially with aftermarket parts and some good tuning. Hell with all of the upgrades, I might even consider a little spray just for fun on the track.

R&C_rallySS

If they are changing the compression pistons would have to be in the equasion.

alaskacobalt

I was thinking this over myself... and it would be impossible for them to use stock pistons anyway... They are closed now, but I'll have to get back with them tomorrow and see what their intentions would be with the pistons, the springs, and the other aspects of the vehicle. If we can get those details fine tuned, then maybe we can start work on this. The major problem is that I only have about two weeks for everything to be completed and tested... and then I drive from Alaska ot Florida... that could be a mistake, but it could very well give me a chance to use Onstar for something... hahaha...

Mikey851

You won't reach 350-400WHP with the stock blower; it may be possible to reach 350 with nitrous but you won't break 300WHP w/o nitrous reliably without change in displacement or compression (Fairly extreme modification). Plus, even if you are in that range it will be a stress on everything even with a good tune.

I don't have the exact numbers, but IMO (And I think many would agree), the turbo would actually be cheaper in the end to hit 350WHP+. The main thing about the turbo is that you would achieve the power more efficiently with less strain.

alaskacobalt

Could we put together a focus group on this? hahaha... It seems like a total mix of ideas really, but it doesn't appear like a single person is 100% what will or will not work... what's the extent to which these cars have been pushed? Sounds like some numbers have just been thrown out and then accepted by the community because they seem right, rather than actually being tested numbers. This of course means that I would be diving into something that realistically no one really knows what will or will not happen. And while I love to be adventurous, sometimes when you're talking about a $20K 2007 vehicle, you worry about being too adventurous.

What about this engine swap option? I was looking around at CED and I can't tell how I'm supposed to find an engine that will fit the Balt.. is this just something you either know about or you don't? Or is there some sort of standard? Like does short block mean that all short blocks are the same size and are essentially interchangeable with appropriate supporting modifications?

Blown 4-banger

The stock blower will support over 400 whp. Rice eater from the redline forums made something like 425 whp with the stock blower and a 2.6" pulley. Now its true that he had a ported head, cams, and 10.5:1 compression, but it shows its still possible. I am doing the same thing, building the hell out of the motor with the stock blower. I'll have WAY more radical cams, more extensive head word, and lower compression, but it should be around 400 whp on stock blower.

alaskacobalt

And that's what I needed to hear... It's better when you see you aren't the first person to take the plunge, and I assumed I wasn't, but you rarely hear about anything near the 300 range, so pushing 400, I've yet to see any Cobalt up that high... but of course I haven't really looked too hard either.

Mikey851

I see what you're saying, but I was talking about operating in the blower's efficiency range not if it can do it at all. Sorry if I made it sound like that. I know it doesn't matter how you make it because power is power, but at a certain point it's the exact same thing as trying make alot of power on a turbo that is too small; at some point you have to increase the size of the compressor.

It looks to me like the gains you're talking about getting all come from increasing the engine's efficiency to use the blower's boost to it's advantage which is a good thing, it's just an expensive route to take because you're having to change components based on the blower itself you know what I mean?

Blown 4-banger

Well the Whipple W140AX with its 1274 cfm flow should more than please my motors air needs