cams and daily driving.
09-04-2007, 11:17 AM
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cams and daily driving.
seeing as i do not have the luxury of a second car right now. i know some people on here have cams in their lil 4 banger cars. do you drive your car every day. to work, home, whatever it may be. im a picky owner, i want to be able to drive it daily. have the power, and really not lose any reliability out of the car itself.
i myself pretty much baby the car as it is, am an avid fan of the a/c. just kicking around different idea's. im not in the mood to change injectors, so this may **** off the 42's even more then it is now.
yes/no/maybe/magic 8 ball says?
i myself pretty much baby the car as it is, am an avid fan of the a/c. just kicking around different idea's. im not in the mood to change injectors, so this may **** off the 42's even more then it is now.
yes/no/maybe/magic 8 ball says?
09-05-2007, 12:14 PM
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Area, you know that cams have a big effect on where the power is produced in the RPM band.
Most aftermarket cams are designed for higher rpm racing use and generally decrease low end torque. Unfortunately you can't have both, you have to sacrifice low power for high.
Stock cams are the best compromise GM could come up with. That is also the reason for VVT, by shifting cam lobe centers they can somewhat adjust between more low torque and high-rpm HP.
Radical cams absolutely suck on the street. Some won't even idle well below 2K rpm so driving in traffic sucks.
You may be able to get cams that aren't too radical and not lose too much daily driver torque but it is hard to say if the expense would be worth it.
And if you get hot cams you'll probably need to P&P your head and that will decrease low end torque somewhat too.
Most aftermarket cams are designed for higher rpm racing use and generally decrease low end torque. Unfortunately you can't have both, you have to sacrifice low power for high.
Stock cams are the best compromise GM could come up with. That is also the reason for VVT, by shifting cam lobe centers they can somewhat adjust between more low torque and high-rpm HP.
Radical cams absolutely suck on the street. Some won't even idle well below 2K rpm so driving in traffic sucks.
You may be able to get cams that aren't too radical and not lose too much daily driver torque but it is hard to say if the expense would be worth it.
And if you get hot cams you'll probably need to P&P your head and that will decrease low end torque somewhat too.
09-05-2007, 12:17 PM
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If you wanted a cheap alternative to buying a new set of cams. Just have the exhaust cam reground to something hotter. I was considering just keeping the intake cam stock and going to a regound exhaust cam. You will keep the low end torque and in essence just have better top end.
What are the stock LSJ cam specs?
What are the stock LSJ cam specs?
09-05-2007, 12:37 PM
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We really need someone like Adam to step in here. There are many forces at work, things like gas velocity and airflow characteristics, it is quite complicated and just bumping the valves open quicker/longer doesn't always increase power.
And generally changing the exhaust cam will also affect the intake side because they both contribute to cylinder filling/evacuation.
It is a complicated enough science that there aren't too many good cam grinders out there.
If I were wanting to get a set of cams I'd have to see dyno charts to see exactly what I'd be gaining/losing.
And generally changing the exhaust cam will also affect the intake side because they both contribute to cylinder filling/evacuation.
It is a complicated enough science that there aren't too many good cam grinders out there.
If I were wanting to get a set of cams I'd have to see dyno charts to see exactly what I'd be gaining/losing.
09-05-2007, 12:48 PM
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it will lower static compression. thats a given. as far as power goes. i have yet to see any numbers what so ever from anyone with cams. all i have heard is "omg it pulls so hard now!" hell a change in the timing tables can do this.
09-05-2007, 12:50 PM
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09-05-2007, 12:53 PM
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i would like to add, with cams, you def want to get it tuned. long valve duration=tune.
then why buy a set of cams if you dont plan on extending valve duration? to me that pointless. the amount of effort, and time it takes to put in,and money spent. i want the biggest bang for my buck
long valve duration=more stress on valve springs and rocker arms.
then why buy a set of cams if you dont plan on extending valve duration? to me that pointless. the amount of effort, and time it takes to put in,and money spent. i want the biggest bang for my buck
long valve duration=more stress on valve springs and rocker arms.
Last edited by 07cobaltss; 09-05-2007 at 12:54 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
09-05-2007, 01:01 PM
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Mine idles just fine when I don't have an exhaust leak, lol...
However, the JBP aren't as aggressive as cams like the HKS 272 grind. My AC works just fine, and my car is daily driven, mainly city cause it's 1 mile to work for me. As far as power goes, even though JBP states that the "Tri-Flow" makes power both high and low, I did not see it in the dyno. I have yet to get a good dyno; though, because by the time we figured out what the tuning issues were w/ my car, we only got like two runs in and gave up cause it was the end of the day. I'm getting the exhaust leak taken care of this weekend and then going to get the tune perfected by the end of the month. Hopefully w/ cold weather and low humidity, I can put down some decent numbers. The only graph I have isn't even the best, but it was 243.9whp on a mustang. I wish I had another 2.8" pullied car's graph from that dyno to compare it to. That would make it much easier to see if the cams helped and where...
The big thing w/ cams is that when something changes, even small stuff like the size of the air filter or an exhaust leak, it changes things radically w/ idle. It's good that you have HPT Area, cause you will need it w/ a cammed car. It would be nice if I had a tune for warm weather and a tune for cold weather that I could change between. My AFR was dead on 11.4+/-(.1) through the whole pull in P.E. Who knows what it'll look like when the weather is 40degrees colder and humidity is less 35-40%...
However, the JBP aren't as aggressive as cams like the HKS 272 grind. My AC works just fine, and my car is daily driven, mainly city cause it's 1 mile to work for me. As far as power goes, even though JBP states that the "Tri-Flow" makes power both high and low, I did not see it in the dyno. I have yet to get a good dyno; though, because by the time we figured out what the tuning issues were w/ my car, we only got like two runs in and gave up cause it was the end of the day. I'm getting the exhaust leak taken care of this weekend and then going to get the tune perfected by the end of the month. Hopefully w/ cold weather and low humidity, I can put down some decent numbers. The only graph I have isn't even the best, but it was 243.9whp on a mustang. I wish I had another 2.8" pullied car's graph from that dyno to compare it to. That would make it much easier to see if the cams helped and where...
The big thing w/ cams is that when something changes, even small stuff like the size of the air filter or an exhaust leak, it changes things radically w/ idle. It's good that you have HPT Area, cause you will need it w/ a cammed car. It would be nice if I had a tune for warm weather and a tune for cold weather that I could change between. My AFR was dead on 11.4+/-(.1) through the whole pull in P.E. Who knows what it'll look like when the weather is 40degrees colder and humidity is less 35-40%...
Last edited by Edubs; 09-05-2007 at 01:01 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
09-05-2007, 01:14 PM
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i would like to add, with cams, you def want to get it tuned. long valve duration=tune.
then why buy a set of cams if you dont plan on extending valve duration? to me that pointless. the amount of effort, and time it takes to put in,and money spent. i want the biggest bang for my buck
long valve duration=more stress on valve springs and rocker arms.
then why buy a set of cams if you dont plan on extending valve duration? to me that pointless. the amount of effort, and time it takes to put in,and money spent. i want the biggest bang for my buck
long valve duration=more stress on valve springs and rocker arms.
09-05-2007, 01:18 PM
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JBP states that the "Tri-Flow" makes power both high and low
You've really gotta wonder when a company makes a claim like that. I'm no expert but unless Harry Potter makes their cams I don't see how that statement could be true. Again, I'd love to see a dyno chart.
You've really gotta wonder when a company makes a claim like that. I'm no expert but unless Harry Potter makes their cams I don't see how that statement could be true. Again, I'd love to see a dyno chart.
09-05-2007, 01:19 PM
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Mine idles just fine when I don't have an exhaust leak, lol...
However, the JBP aren't as aggressive as cams like the HKS 272 grind. My AC works just fine, and my car is daily driven, mainly city cause it's 1 mile to work for me. As far as power goes, even though JBP states that the "Tri-Flow" makes power both high and low, I did not see it in the dyno. I have yet to get a good dyno; though, because by the time we figured out what the tuning issues were w/ my car, we only got like two runs in and gave up cause it was the end of the day. I'm getting the exhaust leak taken care of this weekend and then going to get the tune perfected by the end of the month. Hopefully w/ cold weather and low humidity, I can put down some decent numbers. The only graph I have isn't even the best, but it was 243.9whp on a mustang. I wish I had another 2.8" pullied car's graph from that dyno to compare it to. That would make it much easier to see if the cams helped and where...
The big thing w/ cams is that when something changes, even small stuff like the size of the air filter or an exhaust leak, it changes things radically w/ idle. It's good that you have HPT Area, cause you will need it w/ a cammed car. It would be nice if I had a tune for warm weather and a tune for cold weather that I could change between. My AFR was dead on 11.4+/-(.1) through the whole pull in P.E. Who knows what it'll look like when the weather is 40degrees colder and humidity is less 35-40%...
However, the JBP aren't as aggressive as cams like the HKS 272 grind. My AC works just fine, and my car is daily driven, mainly city cause it's 1 mile to work for me. As far as power goes, even though JBP states that the "Tri-Flow" makes power both high and low, I did not see it in the dyno. I have yet to get a good dyno; though, because by the time we figured out what the tuning issues were w/ my car, we only got like two runs in and gave up cause it was the end of the day. I'm getting the exhaust leak taken care of this weekend and then going to get the tune perfected by the end of the month. Hopefully w/ cold weather and low humidity, I can put down some decent numbers. The only graph I have isn't even the best, but it was 243.9whp on a mustang. I wish I had another 2.8" pullied car's graph from that dyno to compare it to. That would make it much easier to see if the cams helped and where...
The big thing w/ cams is that when something changes, even small stuff like the size of the air filter or an exhaust leak, it changes things radically w/ idle. It's good that you have HPT Area, cause you will need it w/ a cammed car. It would be nice if I had a tune for warm weather and a tune for cold weather that I could change between. My AFR was dead on 11.4+/-(.1) through the whole pull in P.E. Who knows what it'll look like when the weather is 40degrees colder and humidity is less 35-40%...
didn't matt at ttp do the tune on your car? the thing with me having hpt is. i prefer to set the car and leave it alone. i hate luggin the laptop around with me all the damn time incase of temp change, or little things here and there. i have some 2.8 graphs, but they are all on a dynojet, and vary a great deal in numbers.
09-05-2007, 01:22 PM
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Yeah, Matt Hauffe did my tune. Great guy, great tuner. It wasn't his fault that we had trouble tuning it. Initially, I had restrictions on both the intake side and exhaust side (small filter/stock header/dp)...
After I cleaned those restrictions up, tune went just fine. But I had to change the filter after he tuned it which messed w/ the idle just a little and now w/ the exhaust leak it gets a little outta whack from time to time. Still idles great 80% of the time. Just wanna get everything cleared up so my car is 100%...
After I cleaned those restrictions up, tune went just fine. But I had to change the filter after he tuned it which messed w/ the idle just a little and now w/ the exhaust leak it gets a little outta whack from time to time. Still idles great 80% of the time. Just wanna get everything cleared up so my car is 100%...
09-05-2007, 01:24 PM
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Get a hold of Al. He daily drives his to work with his 272 cams. I've driven his car few times too, it's a fine DD. Although his car still can't keep up with mine 
Close though, impressive for a 2.8 pullied car.
Close though, impressive for a 2.8 pullied car.
09-05-2007, 01:26 PM
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I assume Al is Witt...
When's he getting to the dyno and track? I knew he was going to get dyno'd eventually, wasn't sure if he would ever take it to the track.
When's he getting to the dyno and track? I knew he was going to get dyno'd eventually, wasn't sure if he would ever take it to the track.
09-05-2007, 01:27 PM
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My cams rock of coarse they are try-flows so i gained power throughout the rpm range with no loss of low end torque,,these have not changed my daily driving one bit except for the fact I drive faster now.LOL!!
09-05-2007, 01:30 PM
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Yeah, sorry, forgot to put Witt. He recently is ran into some trouble with work and stuff so he isn't on much anymore. He's been working 24/7 so no time for the track or dyno. I keep meaning to call a local shop to have a Dyno day for both me and him though. Should be within a month or so.
Our track times suck around here, by time people get off work and what not it is very hard to make it out. He just got his slicks on though, with the spray, he should def be mid 12s.
Our track times suck around here, by time people get off work and what not it is very hard to make it out. He just got his slicks on though, with the spray, he should def be mid 12s.
09-05-2007, 01:44 PM
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lol
90% of my daily driving is spent on the highway cruising around between 55-75 mph. the reason i asked this question in general is im looking to do things, that are against the grain. people keep putting on smaller pulleys, bigger injectors, nitrous so on and so forth. here i am, a nutcase with a 2.8 and 42's. im not looking to install the 60's i have collecting dust right now, but i feel that if i go through with what i want to do, i won't have a choice.
off the wall question. milling the head. is there enough slack in the tensionor itself to make up for this? trying to maintain that static compression of 9.5:1 or somewhere around there. im not in the mood to pull the motor, put in pistons and rods, have it all balanced and be without my car for 2 months. like i said off the wall, not a cheap way of doing it. more or less a time constrained deal.
09-05-2007, 01:52 PM
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My head was actually milled, thought I had a blown headgasket. The tensionor will make up for it. I don't have exact numbers handy though. I don't really think rods are needed, and we never had our stuff balanced.
If you can fix the fuel rail to be a return style, you can probably get away with keeping the 42s even longer.
If you can fix the fuel rail to be a return style, you can probably get away with keeping the 42s even longer.
09-05-2007, 01:54 PM
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My head was actually milled, thought I had a blown headgasket. The tensionor will make up for it. I don't have exact numbers handy though. I don't really think rods are needed, and we never had our stuff balanced.
If you can fix the fuel rail to be a return style, you can probably get away with keeping the 42s even longer.
If you can fix the fuel rail to be a return style, you can probably get away with keeping the 42s even longer.