if they have them out at the time of my car's rebirth then yes.

 

very nice good luck

 

thanks.

 

Extreme cylinder pressure is my guess. Not boost, just cyl pressure. Meth will raise the cyl pressure quite a bit, coupled with the air flow of the TVS and ported head.

I wasn't knocking or anything when mine popped, and I was only on 19degrees of timing.

 

i'll have the pictures up sometime today showing the cylinder.

 

Trust me that root cause of that was the knock.

I ran pretty high cly pressure on the 2.5" with meth on stock head back in the day.

That may have been the the final straw however but that car did not like the knock it was seeing from the jbp header and tuning process with it.

 

There still seems to be some confusion here on what's caused this to happen. I tell you it's not the tuner, and you still speculate. I'll explain everyting in just a minute.

First of all, let's go back to September of last year. That's when I talked to who was my friend at the time, Justin, and asked him to take care of my car, and eventually I would be going into the block to drop in some forged pistons. (On the car was the tvs on the 3.15" pulley, 60's, and the entire hahn exhaust setup. It had been the same since the tvs was put on in mid august of last year. I never bothered to go past a base tune to make sure that there was no knock when I ran the car hard. I was running on stage 2 timing tables with two more degrees added in the upper end.)

I talked to Justin, and told him that I wanted the jbody header to be installed on the car, and it happened just after I left for deployment which was in mid september. He installed my header, along with my centerforce clutch the following weekend. I told him that he could drive the car but not to drive around like an asshat everywhere he went. I didn't have any problems with the car before, and I didn't want to have anything happen while I was gone. Anyway, a few weeks later, I get an email saying that the car was acting funny, and he didn't know what was wrong. Supposedly, he was driving with his girl when the car just started running like ****.

Eventually, Justin asked Joe to scan the car and see what was going on. After driving for a little while, there was smoke coming from the exhaust, so they quit the scan on the road. It was discovered that the no.1 and no.2 pistons were destroyed along the sides. Big chunks of the ringlands were just gone. I already had it in mind that the engine was going to be rebuilt so it wasn't a big deal. No one could explain why the car would all of a sudden just take a **** and destroy two pistons at once. I didn't ask any questions since it wasn't like I needed a car to drive at the time.

When I gave him the money to have the pistons replaced in the motor, the shop did a visual inspection of the block and found no issues with the cylinder sleeves or the walls themselves. The cylinder sleeves were left as-is, and the rest of the machining work was done. The machining was supposed to be done in December, but took much longer than that. It wasn't until February when he actually started to try and put things back together.

If I gave anyone looking at this seven months to tear down and put back together an engine, I don't think anyone here would call that unreasonable. Yet, he was acting like I was rushing him, and telling me false things just to bring me to ease. In march, when I had just over a month before I was due back, he then started asking for the money to get the necessary seals for the motor. By that time, I pretty much knew that things weren't going to be done when I got back.

At that time, I figured out the error in my decision. That he pretty much had no idea whatsoever in what he was doing. He was asking help at every turn, and lying to everyone that is in the area and the group about what I said he could and couldn't do. When I got back on April 14, the car still wasn't done. It was actually another eight days before I actually got to drive the car. I'll break down the different issues I had to fix on the car since I got back from my deployment, and tell me what you think. Maybe I'm wrong for feeling the way that I do.

1. Cam timing sensor- When I got the car, he told me that for some reason the car didn't want to start right the first time, and I had to step down on the gas pedal to get it to crank. Because I was so upset, I didn't realize that something was wrong with how he put it back together. I tried it his way maybe once or twice, but I didn't understand that having the gas pedal pinned to the floor would solve anything. I just would try several times for it to turn over..., sometimes on the first time, others taking like 5 tries. Joe took the cam timing sensor out and realized that there was a certain way that it should go in place. Apparently, he was too much of a god to know that you just match up the arrows and it works fine.

2. Oil Cooler- Once again, after I got the car, I noticed that it had been leaking on the driver's side from time to time. It would come out kinda quick in the first minute or two, then settle in as the block got warm. Joe got into the oil cooler from underneath and realized that the bolts used to secure the oil cooler were too long and bottoming out before the cooler was secured to the block, hence the leak. Reason being: he didn't separate bolts when he was taking things apart.

3. Driveshaft stage 2 axles- I got two aftermarket axles to put on the car. He installed the axles, and realized that one of them was leaking out grease. Instead of putting the stock axles back in, he left them in knowing something was wrong. About a week later, the driver's side axle popped out of the transmission because he didn't properly install them in the first place.

4. Intake manifold laminovas- While starting the tuning in May, when temps were starting to get nice outside, we noticed the car was seeing consistent degrees of timing pulled due to kr. At first we thought that there might have been some resonance from the exhaust resting on the torsion beam. Fixed that, but no change. Pull timing, no change. For some reason, while doing back to back pulls, I noticed that my temps were getting stratospheric for the iat2's. Like almost 180*. Both of us agreed that the issue was most likely doing with the plumbing for the dual pass, option b, and heat exchanger. Not only was all of that fucked up, but he put on the dual pass endplate without switching around the laminovas. I found that out after taking off the intake manifold. Basically I didn't have a working coolant loop by any means.

I'm sure that there are other things that I've forgot, but that should be enough for you.

Now to the jbp issue. Pay attention to what I said in the beginning. I asked him to put the header on once I left for deployment. Also not to drive the car like an ass. He chose to drive the car like a dick, and try to impress his friends. It only took less than three weeks before the engine was done. That was the ONLY TIME that something was added to my car since I'd been working with Joe, and the car wasn't scanned. That was my fault, not having him take the car to Joe to make sure things were straight. Now think about now, with the amount of timing that had to be pulled from the header being on the car just to get it to run without knocking.

It was 10 degrees of timing that had to be pulled from the tune that was on the car before I left from deployment. And the same tune that I ran with the stock numbers on that dyno I posted. Even though the block was checked out visually, something must have been weakened because he was ******* the **** out of my car when I was gone. Every dyno run was done with one degree or less of kr. So I know that the tuning wasn't the issue.

I have more time doing datalogging on the street in the last 5 months then most have the whole time they've owned their car. And I've done 17 dyno runs just for the header testing. If tuning was the issue, the engine would have gave way much earlier than now. It wouldn't have handled being flooded out with water meth, but it did. And everyday, I ran 22.34 psi. Our motors weren't designed with that amount of pressure in mind. And now I'm going to fix that. If you want to call me stupid because I'm doing this twice then that's fine. And that's your opinion. But don't take down the tuner that checked time and time again, where being conservative is an understatement. He made sure that his aspect of things was airtight.

I don't know what more proof I can give you. I still have a picture of the pistons that were destroyed when I was on deployment, and I think the conversation talking about what happened to the motor. You can ask the guys on the va beach/tidewater forum about what happened, and they'll all vouch for me. How many times he lied about things to them and telling me something completely different. It's all there.

I hope you understand now.

 

So... I'm not going to sift through the millions of pages of bullshit and **** ups... but did anyone admit that this whole test is totally fucked, and that the results are bunk?

BTW, did the OP ever reply to Rippin07, who had documented proof that the whole JBP test is fucked?

 

Damn, you've been through some crazy **** with this whole situation. I hate to be the one to ask, but are you and justin still friends after this?

 

Did someone get a document notorized or some **** saying the test was bunk?

Last i saw was a bunch of opinions...

Are you really that fussy about the test?

 

See this is the exact reason why I don't post anything I test out on here anymore. ******* people do not understand what it is like to try and put your hard earned money into doing something different and the process this sort of thing takes. Instead of understanding and having compassion, all they do is slam you for it and tell you that your all fucked up. I say screw the testing and build the motor bigger and better for yourself this time.

I have had a similar experience with an old friend of mine, and since things have not been the same between us. I had to buy a whole new engine for my Integra, and fix the things he screwed up on it while I was gone. Never did I receive a dime or even a hand to fix the car either from him. I feel your pain bro.

 

Hmmm, Did Omega 5 ever bother to offer up some ideas since he believed that this test is bunk? Or did Omega 5 just run around talking **** about other people on different forums...

And I put out a blatant challenge to Rippin 07, both on here and over a pm. That was over 5 weeks ago. No response. Maybe he was busy? Maybe you should post that info for him since you believe the test was bunked? Maybe I should send you that header that I received from them so you can understand why it fucked up my car? Why should I wait another year to get a replacement for something I had to wait 4 months to get after I paid for it? JBP has the best customer service. That's why they can't post a ******* dyno sheet.

You had the pictures to look at on there. I even offered to put someone elses on my car to rectify things. You don't read into pages of bullshit but you don't hesitate to add your own.

You're a class act.

No. He's traded parts off of my car while I was gone, even stole the exhaust off of my car and put it on his, thinking I wouldn't realize. He just sold his cobalt at his own dealership yesterday for a maxima. I told him either he was going to court, or he was overdue for a visit from my younger brother, who looks like a living, breathing refridgerator.

I don't know why he's ass hurt over a header. I just posted what I noticed. the header made it so I had to pull timing. And just for the record, I'm not taking a shot at rippin 07, he just hasn't replied back to me.

 

stock head/ported head. Pretty big difference.

But I agree, contributing factors came way before that. I just believe that the high cyl pressure was the final straw.

 

damn, sorry to hear about the motor, i hope all goes well this time around!

 

100% agree if his friend was beating on it that bad it was barely holding on when he got back probably.

 

I fully understand... even after constant barrages you never seem to fall off your rocker and you keep a steady head... so i have respect for that...

Its quite funny how they have to use "you ******* idiot" and "you have a bunked test because some ******* said so".. yet you seem to make them look like morons without losing your cool...

 

^thanks for the kind words. I for one won't be selling my LSJ anytime soon.

 

Umm, we need to talk.



Btw, to the rest of you, I'm not Justin.

 

I wanna show you guys something. Since he wanted to go around talking trash about the work I was doing, I'll show you one of his posts directly concerning me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by qwikredline11
so (not retorical) you conclude that 1 equal primary length is not that important, 2. real nice burns stainless style merge collector not worth it, and
(3) 3 inch through out from the merge collector important for an s/c car.

So (again not retorical) why does the Vibrant 2.5 seem to be so good fo death, (sold my vibrante, it wasnt 3 inch ) sold my Hahn shorty,( it wasnt made well at the flange with a port mismatch) kinda like my CTI (but wondering about primary length, not equal)

Omega 5...
"Well, I wouldn't say that length isn't important, as it can also determine how long a cylinder maintains a certain velocity. As well, although I feel that when we are talking about WOT conditions, that scavenging isn't important.... I will maintain that it is important for part throttle (no boost) situations.
As far as the collector... IMO, a rotational collector isn't important, as it is a scavenging mechanism... however, a well flowing collector is important. I feel that many of the header companies out there have let us down by using 'fill style' collectors, as opposed to cone finish collectors... but that's just me.
With respect to the collector diameter, I will maintain the stand point that if you are using a 2.5" exhaust, use a 2.5" collector... if your using a 3", use a 3" collector. I hate seeing step downs in a system, as it's disrupting the velocity, and causing unrecoverable flow losses.

About deathsythe's situation with the vibrant... I can't really agree that it's 'good' for him. As far as I'm concerned, his motor has a problem that is beyond bolt-ons. I feel that his entire test if bunk, as it was not controlled (ie; he should have dyno'd all the headers on the same day, with the same generic tune).

As far as your car... what are the spec's on the CTI? What are you looking to get out of it (top end power, or torquey daily driving)? How much air are you moving? Cams, ported head?
I think there is a large amount of work in finding the perfect header... just like the old 'matched' system for the SBC's, there is an almost perfect match for these motors as well."


If had read just the first page, he would have seen that I already tried that. Unless I had five or six people, and a "working" jbp header, it wouldn't have made a difference. I even ran the jbody header the first time on the dyno without making any changes to the tune, and it was only 3 hp different than what was seen with the kr taken out.

This is what happens when people don't read.

I appreciate that man. I've made my mistakes, and I'm not afraid to admit that. I've never outright attacked anyone, and I help when I can. I don't care if someone takes a shot at me. I've been honest and up front the whole time, so a closet stalker decides to poke his head in.

I'll go to the circus if I want to see clowns. But it's nice to know that entertainment is just around the corner.

 

I don't understand that my quote to John has to do with anything... but whatever.

Again, you can 'try' to do a controlled test... but the point is that you didn't. If you don't have the resources to perform such a test, maybe leave it to someone who can.

With respect to the test; you ran a non-repeatable, non-controlled test. Anyone who does any testing professionally can see with their ass that this is a load of bullshit.
How about when your done rebuilding your motor you try something controlled... like say; a back to back test, one day, one dyno, one tune. Stock manifold - dyno. Up on the lift, swap. JBP - dyno. Up on the lift, swap. Vibrant - dyno... etc, etc.

And with respect to you calling out Rippin.... your story doesn't really match his. From what I heard, he PM'd you his logs of his car running 24* of timing, with no knock, and no issues.... and YOU were the one that chose to not reply.

Either way, there are three of us in the same area here... all running the JBP header, and all run a decent amount of timing, and all make more than the 260HP that your test claims is 'the limit' for the JBP. Which coincidentally brings us to the other point, that your test are not repeatable, if you can't repeat what three of us hove done.

In the end, it comes down to one thing... something was fucked in your test.

And for the record, CSS is work blocked... hence why I post on RLF. If you want to bitch at me for telling it like it is, post it up over there. Until then, fix your ******* car.

Who are you?

 

Umm, who gives a **** dude. At least this guy had the ***** to even attempt doing testing for the rest of us, I give him credit for that. I don't see anyone else out there making an effort to do so.

 

Awesome reply! Here I go...

Leaving things for others to do will just be a waiting game. I waited for you to come out with something concerning an air to air manifold you were talking about over two years ago. Funny thing is I'm still waiting. People have other things they'd like to do with their lives, so I know not to expect much, especially from you. Once again, not attacking you, just stating facts. Please don't be mad since I had a gnat's ass of free time once I got back from my deployment, and tried to do something different.

Uhhh, if you want me to show you the pm's that were sent back and forth, then fine

edit:
I'll just go ahead and post them since you have so much faith in the medusa header.
Re: JBP foul

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rippin07
Death, I do not post **** on here about my gains etc because every week this forum picks a new hero and swings from their nuts. I said I would not mess up this thread and I won't. As I said before I appreciate what your doing and it will give me the information I am looking for to see if I can make even more gains. I will post up my dyno #s after all your testing is through as I am not trying to turn this into a soap opera, I questioned the information, and as you have taken pictures of your header to prove, I see that we have two very different headers, unfortunate but true.
Thank you for clearing up how much air your moving through the maf, this tells me plenty. You see, I am averaging 48lbs and seeing that your at 40 does tell me their is a problem with something when you were at 44 w/ the stock mani.
For what you are doing I hope you can appreciate the critical thinking on this.
Cheers.

My response
The two of us were looking at the same coin from different sides. Your stance was expected by me from someone on here, but please believe that my tuner and I did everything we could to figure out what was causing the great loss in power. That's why we did it again. And we knew it would be controversial, but it was the truth so I decided to post it and deal with the consequences.

However, I do appreciate you being open-minded to all the info I have to offer. Maybe there is a way to resolve this, but I'd rather you not just stay in the shadows in all this. I am going to try and get my hands on one that isn't being used at the time. And in the end, I almost know the best won't be the jbp header.

If you could, at least give me some breakdown numbers of one of your scan logs. I'm not asking to see a tune file, but just to understand things like maf readings, boost level at what rpm, injector duty cycle, such like that. That would at least give me an idea of how mine compares to yours without you having to give up any real details. I'm pretty sure that there is much we can benefit from by exchanging information and findings.


Re: Agreed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rippin07
You are right, both looking at the opposite side of the coin and I did come off brash, sorry.
I will send you a log file of a run with my set up this week so as to compare, no problem.
I also agree the Jbp is probably not the best at these levels of modifications as the primaries are too small. I am also going to strap the car on our dyno again this week as to give the most up to date numbers. We have both a Mustang and a dyno jet, they read within 2-5hp of each other but I will use the mustang as everyone likes to bitch about dyno jets ( go figure??)
Later.

Once again, my response.
It's cool. What matters is we have the same mindset. For the amount of air being moved, I think that 1 3/4" primaries would be better for flow, and not hurt scavenging in the process. You most likely are running a smaller pulley size than I am now, and a ported head would be monstrous on your powerplant. I appreciate you sending the log file, that would give myself and my tuner a much better idea of what things should have looked like with a properly working vortex header. And as far as the dyno, I would like to see what you are putting down, but that can be kept between us if you so wish. I just didn't want your words to be nothing but an empty claim like most on here, and that's why the challenge was put out.

I like the dynojet more or less because the software is easily accessible, and is easy to use. In any case, I look forward to your results.

Peace out. end/

Sooooo,
Why would I care about 260hp first of all? Only the medusa header made numbers like that on MY car. Every thing else produced over 300hp. Don't know why you're stuck on that number. Maybe it's magical or something to you. And there was no other pm. The two I posted are all there is. If he had sent them to me, then I would have posted information other than what I know. All the numbers I've made are for a heavily modified balt. I even said how I felt it would perform for other lower modded cars.

And please don't try to lecture me about what I need to do. Maybe try working on yours, and try to unwrap you head from the pole which is 260hp. I left my car in the wrong person's hands, I'm not crying about it. So my engine blew..., she'll be back on the road soon, probably before thanksgiving. The Phantom will rise again...

I'm assuming you have some sort of engineering background. One thing I've learned about engineering personnel: they have great knowledge, but lack common sense. I wonder why you would want to put your foot in your mouth, but looking at your avatar, you have eight, so I guess it makes no difference. Maybe their different flavors??? Self contained entertainment for your stupidity?

Ask questions before you decide to fire shots at me.

Rippin 07 seems like a nice guy, but I never received a return pm from him. And I have yet to lie on here to anyone about anything.

Lastly, I'm not a troll, nor am I a bitch. I'm not going to follow you to another forum to start a fight. You have a problem with me on here, let's deal here. You already sound stupid for trying to cut me down at the knees and failing. Guess you're used to failing. It's an engineering thing isn't it?

 

Tyler,

Do you think it would be feasible to have all the headers tested in a days time? I see where you are coming from with the consistency stand point but if the runs were all performed with the same cf (which i believe they were with the exception of vibrant) on the same dyno thats the best you can hope for in the real world.

Results were posted with the same tune for each one i thought? As well as a modified tune to each one so it performed the best. Would you honestly tell me if your car was knocking under load well on the dyno you wouldn't pull the timing?

I also believe it was stated and acknowledged that he had a sub par built header from jbp (not hard to believe becuase 3 different companies made them for them), and even offered to test someone else's. As for the 260 hp limit if thats all he could muster out of it then one could conclude that for his setup thats the limit.

Its hard to say when many people have that setup but only one has shown a dyno ( which also doesn't give accurate representation of gains because the tune was altered).

Regardless i see both sides of the coin i just think you might be looking into it to hard, really danew has nothing to gain or lose ( besides money and time spent) from posting the results.


As a side note the whole maf flow thing is not really valid becuase depending on how its tuned it can be skewed easily to whatever you want .

 

It's just a simple case of a defective header. JBP should have had better quality control IMO.

What about the meth problem, couldn't that have been a contributing factor to the engine damage as well?

 

From my perspective, that's all i've been saying. I received a poorly designed header, and it hurt MY car in many ways. They pushed the hype about the header when it was on the way to the market, and then every now and then, they come out to see if anyone else is interested. I don't know of one company that believes in their product and just doesn't bother to have hard proof of the gains from using that said product. Look up the thread from the first sale proposition of the vortex, and count how many times people asked for the same thing. They either couldn't or just didn't want to satisfy the consumer.

As for the meth controller going bad on me, that is always a possibility, one that I can't ignore. My block being flooded out with meth, and having to crank the engine over to pump it out definitely didn't help. It was just another strike against the block.