Zach06CobaltSC

Ok guys let me try and make a really long story short.

This is basically what happened, I blew up my motor, I was expecting my warranty company would want to rebuild it, so I bought some parts to build it, forged pistons, head studs, valve springs, etc. The warranty company decided to send me another long block. My machinist is now to busy to do the build, so that's that.

Here are my options.
1. I can pay ottp to build up the motor, put in the forged pistons, arp head studs, possibly a ported head and valve springs etc, and stay on the m62.

Now one of the "downsides" to have ottp build the motor is that they leave the block in the car. My shop said the best call would be to remove the block, get the cyl walls honed and then balance the motor.

Do I need to have the motor balanced if I am just changing pistons/head?

Option 2.
I can pay zzp slightly more to build the motor, they will pull the block and machine it, hone out the cyl walls, balance the motor etc.

Option 3.
I can stay with stock internals and sell off the diamond forged pistons and other goodies to pay for a TVS setup.

Option 4.
Try to come up with enough money to do the motor build + a tvs setup.

Option 5.
Sell off everything that I can and save up some money to go with a zzp twincharged kit on stock internals.

The last option is just to be happy with what I have *stock internal, 2.8, 60lber car*.

What do you guys think I should do? The price difference is only a couple hundred dollars from having ottp build it to having zzp build it. What do you guys think?

BlkWdoSS

iTrader: (7)

I would go with what would make you happiest in the end.

I would NOT have the motor rebuilt in the car. It needs to be decked, it needs clearances checked, it needs several things that would need to be done with the block out of the car. If I were going through a motor build process it would definitely spend sum time being honed, balanced, and blue printed.

If it were my money being invested, I would ditch the SC and get a turbo. More power potential long term and cheaper to upgrade.

TVS - $1800+
GT42R - ~$1400

Ive seen cars with GT42Rs hit 500whp and just keep on going, I havent seen a TVS SC on a 2.0L motor capable of doing anything close to that yet.

l8r,
PD

Black SS 07

iTrader: (1)

one thing on you list that i dont see is a clutch and flywheel setup. that at least another 1,000

if you really wanted (since ive been talking to you thru PM) if you wanted to go ZZP style.. and didnt want to ship the motor.. i go up there usually once or twice a month.. we have a lake house about 30 mins north west of ZZP's shop. just a offer hah

builds always end up costing at least 1000 - 2000 more than expected...

Zach06CobaltSC

I already have a gm upgraded clutch on a new stock flywheel, there both pretty new and grabs really hard. I have pushed over 350whp on my motor and the clutch held fine. Thanks for the offer about the lake house, it would be really fun to all go out there if they build up my car =D

2K5SS/SC?

Alright, let me straighten one thing out for you. If you do not have the means to pull the motor out yourself, then you shouldn't be building it. Josh is currently building a motor that is not inside the car, so I'm not sure where you got that one from. So, here is my suggestion.

1. Save a few more bones and sleeve the block.
2. Have OTTP send it to their machine shop for final prep and then allow Josh to assemble it.
3. Worry about the TVS or turbo later.

Zach06CobaltSC

*Waves to 2k5ss/sc?* It's been awhile since we've talked.

I can't build the motor myself because of my back. I broke it in 3 different places in a car accident, had a few surgeries etc and I just can't wrench on cars like I used to.

As far as ottp building the motor, sean is saying that the block does NOT need to be pulled out of the car because the forged pistons weigh the same as the stock pistons. I know Josh is more then capable of pulling the block, it just didn't sound like it was necessary to do.

I would love to sleeve the block however I can't really afford dropping 800 dollars on sleeves + machine work. Although I know Victory has a sleeved lsj block for 1200, but I have no idea what I could sell my short block for. It would probably be cheaper to just sleeve mine but I don't know.

I plan on building the motor first and then worrying about the tvs/twincharged/turbo setup stuff later on. I think a nice 2.6, 80lber, e85 tune might be in order though =D. Also thinking about dropping the meth, don't know though.

Let me know what you think, if I only change the pistons and or head, do I need to balance the motor?

damien

iTrader: (3)

There are NO issues with building the motor in the car. I did it, many others have as well. I also did my own honing and no issues there either. All cylinders hold right around 200 on the comp test.

I've only got 3k on my build, but it's held strong through a dozen nx pulls.

Zach06CobaltSC

Thanks for your 2 cents damien! The more I read the less I think I need to get the block balanced if I am just changing the pistons/head. I mean if there was a lot of other work going on I could see it, but the crank, rods, etc are the same.

damien

iTrader: (3)

There was a post by Witt somewhere about balancing the motor. It's pretty much not needed but it won't hurt to have it balanced. I guess it depends on what you want to do, seeing as its your build ya know.

Zach06CobaltSC

If it's not going to cost a lot of extra money to have it balanced I think I am going to do it. Otherwise probably not.

What are your guys thoughts on tossing in some darton sleeves? I know a lot of people are having sleeve issues, but the darton sleeves are 800 dollars + machine work to get them in. I really don't know if it would be worth it or not.

Josh@ottp

iTrader: (4)

Zach, Sean gave you the price for the cheapest option which is just a piston swap. If you want to go further with the build let me know as I have some things in the works. Email is best sales@ottperformance.com

glen229

iTrader: (4)

option 3

Zach06CobaltSC

Josh I just shot you a pm.

glen - I am really leaning towards doing the motor build first and then later on doing the tvs swap.

2K5SS/SC?

It sure has been awhile bro. I've been busy and gone for what seems like forever! Sleeving your block will cost $1500 to include the sleeves, shipping, and bore. I would highly recommend this as it appears quite a few have cracked sleeves after rebuilds as of late. On the other hand there are plenty that have rebuilt the block inside the car as stated and had great success as well. This is where the dilemma comes in, extra cash to do it vs the possible destruction of those new forged pieces when knock hits. Also as a note, Diamonds pistons come with a tight weight tolerance and the factory rods have a tight tolerance as well, so there is no real need to have it all balanced. What rpms do you plan on running because GM Neutrals or a neutral delete kit will come into play as I'm sure you already know.

Rod's sleeved block is a steal, but it will require custom pistons for the bore and stainless steel o-rings to be custom made for it unfortunately. This will end up being more money in the end.

Sorry to hear about your back man. That really sucks and must be a huge bummer. I would definitely recommend Josh and the OTTP crew though. First rate guys right there that will go the extra mile for you.

Zach06CobaltSC

If I can afford it I will be getting the block sleeved, if I can't afford it I will probably put off the build until I can. I don't see any use in having to do this twice. Might as well do it right the first time. I do already have neutral balance shafts and 78lb valve springs so that will help. Do you know what kinda sleeves rod is using in that block? Are they darton, bates, jbp?

Ya I got into a huge car accident june 14th 2007. I spent several months in the hospital, was paralyzed for a month, had 2 spinal fusions, etc. It has been a really tough recovery but I am back up on my own 2 feet, unassisted, walking with just a slight limp. I can't run or anything yet, but I can walk with a limp which is more then any doctor ever expected =D.

Stiner

Sell the parts you have now and go turbo, these engines can handle alot in stock form. Once you pop it then rebuild. Paul was runnin 400+ on stocks for a while, Area runs alot of power for a sc'd set up and has alot of miles all stock everything but valve springs even stock clutch which seems to be underrated around here. Turbo set ups are easier on the engine with alot less heat.

If you choose to build the engine do everything don't skip sleeves, do it right.

twzted

glad you are doing better than expected...but has 2k5 has said OTTP will go the extra mile, and no the build does not have to be done outside the car...IE i know someone who did did a full engine build and his is pushing over 500hp and still just peachy, nothing wrong with doing that...its easier to build outside it tho

also, i would say e-mail josh/sean they answer better since they get 86748739 pms a day

ChriSS/SC

What made you blow your motor

Zach06CobaltSC

It was a combination of things. I was running a lot of timing, spraying a lot of nitrous, spraying a lot of methanol and just pushed everything to its limits I guess. The tune was spot on, but there was a lot of cyl pressure and as soon as I ran even more nitrous the piston ring decided to give out. I kept driving the motor 12k miles though, all in all there are 3 damaged pistons, oh wellz.

Stiner - I don't see myself going with a straight turbo build. I like the midrange power that a twincharged setup has more then a straight turbo setup.

twzted - Thanks for the kind words. I am waiting for josh to email me back today with a price list of what everything should run me. If it's out of my budget then I think I will just wait and build it up when I can afford it.

On a side note I think it would be cheaper to buy the sleeves and find a machine shop to press them in, instead of shipping the block to darton and having them do it. Let me know what you guys think about that.

Stiner

A good turbo set up will yield you good midrange. I suggested straight turbo for affordability, you can sell your SC your intake manifold everything to do with the supercharger to a 2.2 or 2.4 guy leaves you with some good coin. It's what I did

383_Stroker

iTrader: (3)

Find a reputable one, and do it..

Zach06CobaltSC

That is true but then I would still be on stock internals and I have seen a lot of threads lately about people breaking pistons and sleeves. I figure the best route is to build up the motor and block to make it extremely strong, then later on I can save up and figure out what direction I want to go. Whether it be tvs, twincharged, turbo or just being happy with the m62, who knows. Either way I will let you guys know!

On a side note im going to head to bed, for some reason I couldn't sleep last night so I'm gonna sleep now. Once Josh shoots me an email back for the price list I will post it up and get your guys opinions on what you think should be done.

Thanks for all of the input!

Oh side note number 2 - the shop is supposed to be getting the long block from the warranty company in today. I should have pictures of it tomorrow when I go to pick up my s/c, valve cover, spark plug cover etc to paint =D. Gotta love extended warranties!

383 - I agree, I am going to ask Josh if he knows of a good machine shop out there. I have a spare short block that I could use but I would rather sell the entire long block for the extra cash. This might result in a day or so of down time but that's not a problem for me.

WickedSS2005

iTrader: (1)

Zach, see post 5? Do that

daythecountrydied21

what warranty company do you have that just dished out a new motor lol i need to transfer mine to them.

Zach06CobaltSC

haha, I don't know to be honest. It's just some random extended warranty lol. It's not a new motor though it's just "another" long block haha.

Tom - I will for sure be having ottp do the build for me, by removing the block etc.

UPDATE - So I got the price quote from Josh back. I am not going to say how much the total is, but I will let you guys know what will be done. Let me know what you think

1. Darton sleeves for 2.0L

2.Includes install sleeves in block and block decking. Shipping to and
from darton is included in price.

3.Custom Cometic Head gasket for use with larger bore.

4.Price includes Boring and Honing block to specs with torque plate.

5.Includes installing crankshaft, rods, pistons with file fit rings,
Balance shafts, water pump and their timing chain, Oil pan.

6.Includes Installing cylinder head, cams, timing chain, front cover,
and valve cover.

7.Includes complete balancing of the rotating assembly. *Does this need to be done?*

8.Sizing of the wrist pins to the rod small end bushing

9.Porting of the intake and exhaust ports. Includes gasket match,
bowl blending, valve guide machining, valve unshrouding, valve
job, deck skim, clean and assemble head.

10.GM Crank Bearings

11.Dis-assemble, inspect, and clean all parts.

12.GM Rod Bolts


So that is the detailed list of what would be going down on the build. The prices are extremely reasonable however I don't believe I can come up with the full amount as soon as I want. So I was thinking about doing the following. Deleting step 9, the porting of the head, this will save me a decent chunk of change, also if I sell off my neutral balance shafts and valve springs this will really help! Don't worry if I go this route, I will be getting a ported head, valve springs, and neutral balance shafts in the car at a later date!

This is starting to become a reality boys, if I skip step 9 and sell off the valve springs and NBS this could be done for sure!

In the long run by skipping step 9 this will cost me an extra 4-500 dollars probably but that is how the cookie crumbles sometimes .

Let me know your thoughts!