I Went To The Dark Side With A Gen 3 Motor
01-01-2014, 12:31 AM
#51
Junior Member
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: 01-27-11
Location: Fort Wayne, IN. USA
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm curious to see what you get out of it. Like I said I was pretty set on the 256 et until my winter vehicle blew up, but now with researching more (in hopes and dreams) I have heard the success of the 252 et. The spool time is definitely friendlier for a stock engine (I know you won't be running a stock lsj) and users seem to really enjoy it. Not to mention, like you said in your first post, it is ZZP'S favorite turbo for the lsj. Not that I live or die by them but I respect what they have done and continue to do for the platform.
01-01-2014, 06:50 PM
#61
New Member
Join Date: 03-28-10
Location: Honolulu HI
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sad to see a TVS Champion go down, but I came to that conclusion before buying in, that fuel would be a problem. So I am sitting on the twin screw option praying and hoping I can get it together with the new developements and keep her supercharged but run like a turbo.
Shouldn't be too hard once it goes together, much more familiar with the Whipple then I am the Eaton or Harrop. Until the Cobalt I had never heard of these turbo's they seem pretty legit though. I can't blame you for going turbo, similairly the GTi VW makes does pretty good with the method, but our balts are alot sexyer then the nerfed hatchbacks, or GLi sedans.
I avoid meth at all costs, I've seen it fail or bring down so many builds. Biggest reason I'm hoping the future brings about some good changes.
Shouldn't be too hard once it goes together, much more familiar with the Whipple then I am the Eaton or Harrop. Until the Cobalt I had never heard of these turbo's they seem pretty legit though. I can't blame you for going turbo, similairly the GTi VW makes does pretty good with the method, but our balts are alot sexyer then the nerfed hatchbacks, or GLi sedans.
I avoid meth at all costs, I've seen it fail or bring down so many builds. Biggest reason I'm hoping the future brings about some good changes.
01-01-2014, 08:14 PM
#62
It all really comes down to your power goals. The TVS can make decent power even on 91. Do you have access to E85? That's a big jump in power right there. If not there's always the nitrous route. But pushing a button every time I want to have some fun just doesn't really appeal to me much.
01-01-2014, 08:43 PM
#64
Not really. Nobody has just put any real effort here to take an sc all out. They get discouraged so easily with the difficulty in what it takes for one.
Heck in the v8 world roots sc's are making well over 1000 hp and even some 1500+ builds with way more instant torque down low at 1500 rpm then any turbo build. You just dont have the instant hit a sc can give you coming from a turbo.
Heck in the v8 world roots sc's are making well over 1000 hp and even some 1500+ builds with way more instant torque down low at 1500 rpm then any turbo build. You just dont have the instant hit a sc can give you coming from a turbo.
01-01-2014, 09:10 PM
#65
New Member
Join Date: 03-28-10
Location: Honolulu HI
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Twin Screws are the modern supercharger, Roots superchargers are cheap as hell to manufacture it's why Chevy used em. Kennebell and Whipple are both putting quad digit cars down the line, it's only going to be so long before the ZL1 and ZR1 become kit quad cars like the SRT8 and Mustang GT/ GT500 Cobra (and yes it is a Cobra just trust me on it) have had available for some time. Chevy owners for some reason snub the nose to superchargers on modern vehicles above 800. Roots are like 20-40% efficient at making power per lb of boost, TVS is a sad 50ish, and whipple or kennebell sits parallel to turbo at 80-90%. Not many turbo's exceed 80%, but then again you'd see better gains lb for lb with a turbo because it hits the powerband low to do it's job rather than a steady tax across the entire band.
But imagine how far you could go with double the reliability and output!
I'm hoping for 600, any more is pointless without putting large wheels up front to contain it.
But imagine how far you could go with double the reliability and output!
I'm hoping for 600, any more is pointless without putting large wheels up front to contain it.
01-01-2014, 09:13 PM
#66
Not really. Nobody has just put any real effort here to take an sc all out. They get discouraged so easily with the difficulty in what it takes for one.
Heck in the v8 world roots sc's are making well over 1000 hp and even some 1500+ builds with way more instant torque down low at 1500 rpm then any turbo build. You just dont have the instant hit a sc can give you coming from a turbo.
Heck in the v8 world roots sc's are making well over 1000 hp and even some 1500+ builds with way more instant torque down low at 1500 rpm then any turbo build. You just dont have the instant hit a sc can give you coming from a turbo.
01-01-2014, 09:18 PM
#67
Not really. Nobody has just put any real effort here to take an sc all out. They get discouraged so easily with the difficulty in what it takes for one.
Heck in the v8 world roots sc's are making well over 1000 hp and even some 1500+ builds with way more instant torque down low at 1500 rpm then any turbo build. You just dont have the instant hit a sc can give you coming from a turbo.
Heck in the v8 world roots sc's are making well over 1000 hp and even some 1500+ builds with way more instant torque down low at 1500 rpm then any turbo build. You just dont have the instant hit a sc can give you coming from a turbo.
01-01-2014, 10:11 PM
#68
I agree the wipples are making bigger #'s and should be as they're more efficient. I'm glad to see the aftermarket world is not just turbos making big numbers. To some people an sc is better suited for a certain build. Comparing v8's is a valid point because it is showing how far sc technology is coming for street/daily use as opposed to the big old 6:71 and 8:71 blowers, which are awesome btw, have come.
This is exactly my point. Till now, no one has done any real effort. People would do bolt on, get 383-350 and call it a day give up and go turbo because it was easier to make power from a turbo. Yes those guys, and myself included will be pushing the TVS hard. I have lots of plans and things set aside for my build and I have barely even begun mine.
What really needed is a great flowing head, a big fuel system with lots of octane, and bigger cubes help bring the blower back in its efficiency range. I have to humbly disagree that No2 will be needed to make big #'s. Yes it'll help put you over a certain goal, but my belief is we will start seeing 450+ blower only cars very soon.
A procharger set up has been done. It wasn't successful over a TVS.
What more could people be doing to a Cobalt that's not real effort? Sticking with the 2.0. Japeater, Infraredline, Mr.B and 100%METH have done a really good job of it. Tjolley built a 9k stroker motor. Granted none of them have all out dyno numbers yet but it comes down to if you aren't using nitrous, you can only make so much power with the TVS. It is limited. Saying what V8's do is comparing apples to oranges.
What more could people be doing to a Cobalt that's not real effort? Sticking with the 2.0. Japeater, Infraredline, Mr.B and 100%METH have done a really good job of it. Tjolley built a 9k stroker motor. Granted none of them have all out dyno numbers yet but it comes down to if you aren't using nitrous, you can only make so much power with the TVS. It is limited. Saying what V8's do is comparing apples to oranges.
What really needed is a great flowing head, a big fuel system with lots of octane, and bigger cubes help bring the blower back in its efficiency range. I have to humbly disagree that No2 will be needed to make big #'s. Yes it'll help put you over a certain goal, but my belief is we will start seeing 450+ blower only cars very soon.
01-01-2014, 10:51 PM
#70
My opinion 450 whp in a 2800lb car is pretty big numbers. That's a 500 hp motor. Nothing to sneeze at. Traction starts becoming your big enemy unless set up right.
Lots of the turbo guys are around that number. This community doesn't have A LOT of 500+whp cars. Although it think it would be cool if we did just for bragging rights. All motors, LSJ, LNF, LE5, etc the Ecotec in general, we can all agree and have seen it has the potential for it. Just takes sharing some tips/tricks and guidance along the way.
Lots of the turbo guys are around that number. This community doesn't have A LOT of 500+whp cars. Although it think it would be cool if we did just for bragging rights. All motors, LSJ, LNF, LE5, etc the Ecotec in general, we can all agree and have seen it has the potential for it. Just takes sharing some tips/tricks and guidance along the way.
01-02-2014, 09:44 AM
#72
What more could people be doing to a Cobalt that's not real effort? Sticking with the 2.0. Japeater, Infraredline, Mr.B and 100%METH have done a really good job of it. Tjolley built a 9k stroker motor. Granted none of them have all out dyno numbers yet but it comes down to if you aren't using nitrous, you can only make so much power with the TVS. It is limited. Saying what V8's do is comparing apples to oranges.
if most people knew what an honest 300hp and 300ftlbs from a 4cyl felt like they would **** their pants in all reality anything over 350 in a 4cyl is big power look at most boosted Hondas they are lucky to get over 200hp lol
it takes more then tips and tricks it takes dedication and patients and some money and set of nuts and in this platform with most owners you don't have that the majority are people who want to be spoon fed and to take the easy street out because they are afraid to take a risk and step out of the norm so I can understand why people in this platform wont share much information
01-02-2014, 10:47 AM
#73
get off of the crack pipe the fastest drag cars in the world are blown
the tvs is only as limited as you want it to be just like a any turbo can be and you don't need nitrous but its kinda like a turbo easy power
I wouldn't say that
if most people knew what an honest 300hp and 300ftlbs from a 4cyl felt like they would **** their pants in all reality anything over 350 in a 4cyl is big power look at most boosted Hondas they are lucky to get over 200hp lol
I agree 450 is rather **** sized
it takes more then tips and tricks it takes dedication and patients and some money and set of nuts and in this platform with most owners you don't have that the majority are people who want to be spoon fed and to take the easy street out because they are afraid to take a risk and step out of the norm so I can understand why people in this platform wont share much information
the tvs is only as limited as you want it to be just like a any turbo can be and you don't need nitrous but its kinda like a turbo easy power
I wouldn't say that
if most people knew what an honest 300hp and 300ftlbs from a 4cyl felt like they would **** their pants in all reality anything over 350 in a 4cyl is big power look at most boosted Hondas they are lucky to get over 200hp lol
I agree 450 is rather **** sized
it takes more then tips and tricks it takes dedication and patients and some money and set of nuts and in this platform with most owners you don't have that the majority are people who want to be spoon fed and to take the easy street out because they are afraid to take a risk and step out of the norm so I can understand why people in this platform wont share much information
But back on track and not turbo vs blower anymore haha. I'm off to Anahiem, Californa tomorrow for a week. When I return I hope to have everything else I've ordered (still waiting on my zzp Black Friday stuff) and have the car running in the next couple weeks.
