J-Body Performance Header
07-11-2006, 06:03 PM
#76
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you will be waiting a while for vibrant since they were supposed to release a header about 7 months ago.
As for the JBP I would be willing to pay the price, but I need some performance numbers for a 600 dollar header.
As for the JBP I would be willing to pay the price, but I need some performance numbers for a 600 dollar header.
07-11-2006, 08:31 PM
#77
Senior Member
Originally Posted by zinner
you will be waiting a while for vibrant since they were supposed to release a header about 7 months ago.
As for the JBP I would be willing to pay the price, but I need some performance numbers for a 600 dollar header.
As for the JBP I would be willing to pay the price, but I need some performance numbers for a 600 dollar header.
07-12-2006, 09:48 AM
#79
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yea me too.... I think 2 a week is cool ...the people on the bottom of the list will just be getting more excited about it when they start hearing about peoples gains and ****. HEY JUST DONT FORGET TO COUNT ME IN ON THIS IM NEW TO THIS AND I DONT WANT TO MISS OUT.
07-12-2006, 05:24 PM
#80
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Hello,
We got new stainless pricing, however, we're somewhat disappointed for a mass order of 200 bends that we only received $2.25 off the regular price. It equates to a drop in price of $30CDN (~$26USD)... At least its something.
So the final GP price would be $659CDN (~$593USD)
+ Taxes for Canadian Citizens
+ Shipping (need zip codes/postal codes for estimatation)
We got new stainless pricing, however, we're somewhat disappointed for a mass order of 200 bends that we only received $2.25 off the regular price. It equates to a drop in price of $30CDN (~$26USD)... At least its something.
So the final GP price would be $659CDN (~$593USD)
+ Taxes for Canadian Citizens
+ Shipping (need zip codes/postal codes for estimatation)
07-12-2006, 08:45 PM
#81
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turboeco, It's a very hard margin to work with. I was hoping for more of a discount on the piping to accomadate a price drop in the header profit because we can't take anymore off the top of our profit for man hours. It took the two of us, about 22 man hours to build the header, the jig and a very costly startup in materials, which we absorb into prototyping. We gauged that it will probably take 5.5 man hours to make each header. Which means that we're working for about $25 bucks and hour. We can't take a hit into the profit if it moves the product the first time, but subsequent GPs we can't do that... I drive a cobalt and am currently in the mids of getting married, all the T.O. guys can tell you that. There really is no money in this header other than the fame that goes with making such a piece.
All in all if you do the simple arithmetic with the numbers I posted, you can gauge how much we're making off the header... I'll bow down as a good show of faith for this GP for the $600USD shipped, but we can't do it in the future.... Thanks for understanding guys.
All in all if you do the simple arithmetic with the numbers I posted, you can gauge how much we're making off the header... I'll bow down as a good show of faith for this GP for the $600USD shipped, but we can't do it in the future.... Thanks for understanding guys.
07-13-2006, 06:02 PM
#82
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has this part been dynoed yet? I mean its nice looking and all but a dyno is a MUST or you might just be buying a $600 rice item....and $600 is just the header no b pipe(down)
07-14-2006, 09:57 AM
#83
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25$ an hour is 50 000 a year... like my friend says "sympathy, you'll find it in the dictionary between **** and Syphelis"...
600$ for a header...no testing
give me a break, and I doubt your cost on tubing is 462$
sorry to be the "bad guy" but before posting what your profit is or what you pay yourself or employees, with no guarantee that your part will gain anything (I sugest you test your spify header against the more generic non equalengh one) you ought to have some good proof it is worth 600 bucks...
600$ for a header...no testing
give me a break, and I doubt your cost on tubing is 462$
sorry to be the "bad guy" but before posting what your profit is or what you pay yourself or employees, with no guarantee that your part will gain anything (I sugest you test your spify header against the more generic non equalengh one) you ought to have some good proof it is worth 600 bucks...
07-14-2006, 10:17 AM
#84
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Gees give him time to get the prototype back and tested,
hes not asking you to buy it right now, it's the members on this board that are jumping the gun and starting and asking about a GP.
just like with every other product that comes out that they're interested in.
give him time, I sure you won't be dissapointed with the gains.
hes not asking you to buy it right now, it's the members on this board that are jumping the gun and starting and asking about a GP.
just like with every other product that comes out that they're interested in.
give him time, I sure you won't be dissapointed with the gains.
07-14-2006, 10:28 AM
#85
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Originally Posted by player_1
Gees give him time to get the prototype back and tested,
hes not asking you to buy it right now, it's the members on this board that are jumping the gun and starting and asking about a GP.
just like with every other product that comes out that they're interested in.
give him time, I sure you won't be dissapointed with the gains.
hes not asking you to buy it right now, it's the members on this board that are jumping the gun and starting and asking about a GP.
just like with every other product that comes out that they're interested in.
give him time, I sure you won't be dissapointed with the gains.
07-14-2006, 10:44 AM
#86
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Originally Posted by NightmareRacing
25$ an hour is 50 000 a year... like my friend says "sympathy, you'll find it in the dictionary between **** and Syphelis"...
Originally Posted by NightmareRacing
600$ for a header...no testing
give me a break, and I doubt your cost on tubing is 462$
give me a break, and I doubt your cost on tubing is 462$
Originally Posted by NightmareRacing
sorry to be the "bad guy" but before posting what your profit is or what you pay yourself or employees, with no guarantee that your part will gain anything (I sugest you test your spify header against the more generic non equalengh one) you ought to have some good proof it is worth 600 bucks...
no need to apologize, as we are warranted in dealing with the public. We are ready to answer most questions (serrated or not) dealing with our products. The people I prefer to do business with is an educated customer....
07-14-2006, 10:57 AM
#87
Senior Member
Originally Posted by JBP
Sympathy? We're stating the facts about the product costs and profit margin. It's hard to find companies who are willing to state that, if not down right impossible.
wrong, its $496 for all stainless material supply.
no need to apologize, as we are warranted in dealing with the public. We are ready to answer most questions (serrated or not) dealing with our products. The people I prefer to do business with is an educated customer....
wrong, its $496 for all stainless material supply.
no need to apologize, as we are warranted in dealing with the public. We are ready to answer most questions (serrated or not) dealing with our products. The people I prefer to do business with is an educated customer....
One look at there Vortex 3" Exhaust and you can see the quality and work that they put in their products.
They take great pride in their products and it shows. Cant wait to see the final product! Look for my Front page review on their 3" Vortex stainless Steel Exhaust in the next few weeks.
07-14-2006, 11:21 AM
#88
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Originally Posted by denny
I can vouch for JBP as being a high quality and very professional Performance Shop.
One look at there Vortex 3" Exhaust and you can see the quality and work that they put in their products.
They take great pride in their products and it shows. Cant wait to see the final product! Look for my Front page review on their 3" Vortex stainless Steel Exhaust in the next few weeks.
One look at there Vortex 3" Exhaust and you can see the quality and work that they put in their products.
They take great pride in their products and it shows. Cant wait to see the final product! Look for my Front page review on their 3" Vortex stainless Steel Exhaust in the next few weeks.
for $100 more you can get a header with a cat and b pipe...so gains are a minimum requirement here...
07-14-2006, 11:57 AM
#89
LSX RWD S/C conversion
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Originally Posted by NightmareRacing
25$ an hour is 50 000 a year...
dollars and second I am a journeyman tradesman and for me to work for $25\hr I better really like you or I ain't even getting out of bed for that kind of money. There are lots of people who work cheaper but everyone gets what they pay for.
07-14-2006, 11:59 AM
#90
Senior Member
Originally Posted by SS_SC_Cobalt
Denny its not about vouching for the biz, its getting some concrete gains for the cash outlay, $600 is a LOT for a shorty header no matter how you cut it!
for $100 more you can get a header with a cat and b pipe...so gains are a minimum requirement here...
for $100 more you can get a header with a cat and b pipe...so gains are a minimum requirement here...
07-14-2006, 12:42 PM
#91
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Originally Posted by denny
I was vouching for the quality and hard work that JBP put in producing parts for us. I havent dyno'd any of their parts yet but I will very soon. Dont forget that a lot of time's you get what you pay for!
07-19-2006, 02:23 AM
#93
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quick question.i have a 2.4 with a magnaflow right now.correct me if I am wrong but the 4-2-1 would bolt up directly from the engine to where the magnaflow starts?Also with the 4-1 header,it would need the b pipe to connect to the magnaflow?
I am quite curious in this header.I am very interested in buying this and what numbers would you expect because I have a 2.4L.
I am quite curious in this header.I am very interested in buying this and what numbers would you expect because I have a 2.4L.
07-19-2006, 03:32 AM
#94
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first off a 4-2-1 is a long tube header set-up...but technically yes it would bolt to where the magnaflow starts.
NOW with the JBP header in question it is a 4-1 equal length "shorty" (for names sake since with all the tubing its not all that short) header and would bolt right to the stock downpipe with the cat. it is a straight bolt on header.
in terms of gains this is probably hands down the best header that is going to be on the market for a long time considering the amount of workmanship and material (all stainless) that is put into each one.
Sure you will save a lot of money buying a standard un-equal mass produced header...but..they are not the best. For me personally i bought this car to mod it and i will only use top of the line parts. You dont buy a car you want to squeeze every little bit of power out of it just to buy cheap parts..it seems like a waste to me.
oh and dont listen to all this long tube vs short tube header crap...everyone thinks just cuz long tube header's are better because they are bigger, better looking, and more expensive then shorty headers doesnt mean they are better....yes they are GREAT for v8 engines..but are not too good for 4 bangers.
long tube = higher rpm hp/tq gains
short tube= mid-high rmp hp/tq gains
NOW with the JBP header in question it is a 4-1 equal length "shorty" (for names sake since with all the tubing its not all that short) header and would bolt right to the stock downpipe with the cat. it is a straight bolt on header.
in terms of gains this is probably hands down the best header that is going to be on the market for a long time considering the amount of workmanship and material (all stainless) that is put into each one.
Sure you will save a lot of money buying a standard un-equal mass produced header...but..they are not the best. For me personally i bought this car to mod it and i will only use top of the line parts. You dont buy a car you want to squeeze every little bit of power out of it just to buy cheap parts..it seems like a waste to me.
oh and dont listen to all this long tube vs short tube header crap...everyone thinks just cuz long tube header's are better because they are bigger, better looking, and more expensive then shorty headers doesnt mean they are better....yes they are GREAT for v8 engines..but are not too good for 4 bangers.
long tube = higher rpm hp/tq gains
short tube= mid-high rmp hp/tq gains
07-19-2006, 04:33 PM
#95
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not to talk bad about the shorty header but honestly it is wierd how a header with curved tubing provide hp gains.if anything it looks like it would decrease power because there is more restriction due to the bends.Can anyone tell me why you get a power gain with a header shaped like that?
also,if i were to get the 4-1 header,would it be a good idea to get the zz bpipe inbetween my magnaflow and the 4-1 header?im sure it would fit wouldnt it?
also,if i were to get the 4-1 header,would it be a good idea to get the zz bpipe inbetween my magnaflow and the 4-1 header?im sure it would fit wouldnt it?
07-19-2006, 05:14 PM
#96
LSX RWD S/C conversion
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Originally Posted by myfriendscobalt
not to talk bad about the shorty header but honestly it is wierd how a header with curved tubing provide hp gains.if anything it looks like it would decrease power because there is more restriction due to the bends.Can anyone tell me why you get a power gain with a header shaped like that?
also,if i were to get the 4-1 header,would it be a good idea to get the zz bpipe inbetween my magnaflow and the 4-1 header?im sure it would fit wouldnt it?
also,if i were to get the 4-1 header,would it be a good idea to get the zz bpipe inbetween my magnaflow and the 4-1 header?im sure it would fit wouldnt it?
Originally Posted by JBP
First and foremost: We do not want to market our header as a typical "shorty" header, because it is nothing of the sort.
Continuing, our header design is the product of three constants.
1) Space limitation
2) Tube length and design
3) Stock compatibility and ease of installation
1) This is the limitation in space emposed by the firewall, water pump, water feed, thermostat and cylinder head. We incorporated an optimal length which was first estimated by hand mathematically and then computer modeled by Reza Manni (Laser scientist) and reproduced by myself (Mev), in to the tack welded piece you saw on the previous page. The design of a header is much like that of a pressure tube, in which you have a time limit from when the exhaust gases and flowing and not flowing. Without getting to complex, we made a header length that is optimal for the design that incorporates constants 1 and 3.
2) Tube length is computer modeled carefully with data from both engine flow, timing, and the appropriate runner length, in this case which ranges from about 16.55-17.74" long. Yes, that is the approximate length of the primaries. This number provides us with a base range that will assist us in the header design. We have one primary that is longer than the rest which is to assist in a technique in which we found during modeling to enhance the vaccuum effect of the header in the high RPM range. We've spent a lot of money on this project and forsee that the header will out perform even long tube headers.
3) Once again, the whole reason for having such an interesting looking piece is because of space constraints to achieve the primary length and a stock bolt-on compatibility. Customers questioned would like to have a header that bolts into the stock location. It makes it easier for installation and compatibility for future exhaust modifications.
I'm eagerly awaiting dyno testing on my own cobalt ss. Just have to finish a few final touches.
Continuing, our header design is the product of three constants.
1) Space limitation
2) Tube length and design
3) Stock compatibility and ease of installation
1) This is the limitation in space emposed by the firewall, water pump, water feed, thermostat and cylinder head. We incorporated an optimal length which was first estimated by hand mathematically and then computer modeled by Reza Manni (Laser scientist) and reproduced by myself (Mev), in to the tack welded piece you saw on the previous page. The design of a header is much like that of a pressure tube, in which you have a time limit from when the exhaust gases and flowing and not flowing. Without getting to complex, we made a header length that is optimal for the design that incorporates constants 1 and 3.
2) Tube length is computer modeled carefully with data from both engine flow, timing, and the appropriate runner length, in this case which ranges from about 16.55-17.74" long. Yes, that is the approximate length of the primaries. This number provides us with a base range that will assist us in the header design. We have one primary that is longer than the rest which is to assist in a technique in which we found during modeling to enhance the vaccuum effect of the header in the high RPM range. We've spent a lot of money on this project and forsee that the header will out perform even long tube headers.
3) Once again, the whole reason for having such an interesting looking piece is because of space constraints to achieve the primary length and a stock bolt-on compatibility. Customers questioned would like to have a header that bolts into the stock location. It makes it easier for installation and compatibility for future exhaust modifications.
I'm eagerly awaiting dyno testing on my own cobalt ss. Just have to finish a few final touches.
07-19-2006, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by myfriendscobalt
not to talk bad about the shorty header but honestly it is wierd how a header with curved tubing provide hp gains.if anything it looks like it would decrease power because there is more restriction due to the bends.Can anyone tell me why you get a power gain with a header shaped like that?
also,if i were to get the 4-1 header,would it be a good idea to get the zz bpipe inbetween my magnaflow and the 4-1 header?im sure it would fit wouldnt it?
also,if i were to get the 4-1 header,would it be a good idea to get the zz bpipe inbetween my magnaflow and the 4-1 header?im sure it would fit wouldnt it?
And $600 is way way way cheap for this thing.
Me and my dad made a set of equal length headers out of 304 stainless for our v8 race car. Materials alone set us back about $1200 not to mention that stainless is a pain in the ass to cut/sand/weld/workwith so when im not broke I think ill be getting one.
07-20-2006, 07:44 AM
#98
Senior Member
Originally Posted by turboeco
Well if they are for sale, you'd think they'd at least have finished pics and dyno numbers before selling it.
I'm interested, but I'd like to see what it can do.
I'm interested, but I'd like to see what it can do.
07-20-2006, 08:37 AM
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a pre-order GP Buy page was set-up, they are going to be for sale.
keep in mind how busy JBP is right now, They got Victory_Red_SS's motor they're building, plus the 3 or 4 other Cavi Motors for other people.
he's also redesigning my coilover's (making them even betterup)
plus all the other day to day buisness a phone calls and design on more products to come.
then, and most important Wedding to plan.
I know from the there Site it looks like a big buisness, but it's not. they're a small buiness that is producing a massiv amount of parts for it's size. Give they guy some time. you won't be disappointed.
keep in mind how busy JBP is right now, They got Victory_Red_SS's motor they're building, plus the 3 or 4 other Cavi Motors for other people.
he's also redesigning my coilover's (making them even better
up)plus all the other day to day buisness a phone calls and design on more products to come.
then, and most important Wedding to plan.
I know from the there Site it looks like a big buisness, but it's not. they're a small buiness that is producing a massiv amount of parts for it's size. Give they guy some time. you won't be disappointed.
