WSFrazier

Rofl

aj_92rs

See. Exactly my point.

I see two quench areas in each of those chambers. The flat areas, one between the intake valves, and one between the exhaust valves.

Those two areas help to promote swirl and squish within the chamber. Based on the shape of the pistons in other pictures you have in that album, increasing the distance between those areas by use of a thicker head gasket will decrease squish and effective swirl within the chamber which can increase hot spots.

You don't see that?

Witt

Those are not considered quench areas and have no effect on detonation. I can dig a pic up on google if you want to see what one is, however I'm sure you know, and were just unaware that Ecotecs did not have a quench area.

aj_92rs

OK. What's the clearance height of those two areas between the piston with the stock gasket in place?

Prove to me with modeling clay that it's more than .045" and I'll believe they have no effect on quench and swirl within that chamber.

Witt

Its not my position to prove to you a thing. Anyone who has torn a head off an eco or has any experience tearing a head off any car and then looking at that picture can tell that the height between the flat spot you refer to and the top of the deck before the head gasket is even installed is greater than .045". Add the stock head gasket thickness which is between .027" and .040" depending on engine used and guess what? No quench!

Modelling clay, rofl, gtfo.

And start another thread if you wanna argue quench area on an Ecotec please.

NJHK

Here you go:

WSFrazier

^^^^ He wanted measurements if I recall.

aj_92rs

I said the area between the piston and those flat spots, nothing about deck height.

I want to be proven wrong. Why? Because I know I'm right. Unless you convince me otherwise that I know nothing about basic engine design, I'll stick to what I know is true.

Can ya' feel the love?

And Adam, why? I come here to help and offer insight. You saw this when I first joined this forum. After all, YOU pm'ed me asking me to join EcotecForum.com, that was until I challenged you on a statement you made here. Now, all of a sudden I'm a troll?

alleycat58

This thread sorely needs some love from Big Dan...

WSFrazier

Too bad he's stuffing his face in Slowburg.

Witt

Nah, its the fact that you came in here and flamed then ended up being wrong is why they're busting your *****. Don't flame if you don't want it in return.

Eco's stock piston crown does not extend past the deck. It easy to see what I mean by looking at the pic again and you'll notice the dome shape on the chamber in the head. The crown won't physically fit past the deck. Its a given that to measure quench you measure the area between the quench area to the bottom of the head, then add the head gasket thickness. As you are aware, effective quench happens at .045". Remember how small half of a tenth of an inch is, then use the picture again for reference. That area would have to be .018" tall max for an LSJ. Also your .045" figure is assuming an engine that has a full ring as a quench area, not two tiny spots.

Now already, this is offtopic from the OP's original post; we have the pictures to prove my point, however you now want modelling clay to prove an arguement you started, just stop.

aj_92rs

It is difficult to tell from that picture that the pistons do not protrude above the deck height. Everything is, afterall, flat black, and there is no straight shot from the side.

The small ring on the piston would, i.e., appear to be the reference point for which to judge deck height. Afterall, ever other piston in the world uses that frame of reference.

Using that, and the fact that I've seen written documentation that the deck height on an LSJ block is .000", I concluded that the crowns of said pistons protrude above deck height.

Evidenlty not?

If so, I have been proven wrong and I stand corrected, which I have no problem accepting.

Witt

I was there, and did half the work, thats how I know where the crown sits at TDC, but trust me, it does not protrude past the deck. I can't prove to you with any measurements or clay right now because that is not my engine nor is it at my house.

Vman81

Dude whats up with the ***** in the pics? Is there something we should know about? LOL

Anyways, you guys are in for a real treat building the motor. Get ready to spend about 500 bucks in just machine work, bolts, mls gasket, and arp studs alone...probably more than that...

I detonated my #4 piston and my car should be going back together next week. Block is in the machine shop right now getting the new sleeve put in.

Later,
Vince.

aj_92rs

I'm going on good faith that you speak the truth.

Perhaps it's just difficult for me to picture an engine that doesn't utilize any quench area to promote swirl, especially when I can cleary see a flat ring around the edge of the piston.

BOT,

Will changing the gasket thickness bare any problems with stability of the head on the cylinder block?

This truly could be a very effective way to lower compression in these engines that I just never thought of based on the years and years of experience I have telling me NOT to.

Witt

I think I may now see some confusion here. Stock piston crown does not extend past zero deck. However the aftermarket 10-1 and 10.5-1 Diamond LSJ ones are domed in that area and do in fact protrude past zero deck, if that helps at all.

WSFrazier

I think 10K should cover it. No worries. Gonna be built like a brick shithouse.

Witt

The rubber dick was the cause of the head gasket failure we found out. Long story really. At least we got it back to the rightful owner.

WSFrazier

I know I am just going to stick with LSJ specific gaskets myself.

aj_92rs

Did someone blow a seal, or was it just a little ice cream?

LMAO!!!

Vman81

Also, lowering the compression would be stupid, even if you were going straight turbo later on. I would highly recommend going with the Diamond Racing 10:1 pistons with the ceramic coated tops and moly coated skirts and then go with the .027 thick Cometic MLS gasket for the LSJ. If you go with the 2.2 Cometic gasket, it is a thicker gasket (.060 I believe) and is NOT made for an LSJ.

I know that countless people have used those gaskets with no problems, but Cometic states that there are differences between that gasket and the new LSJ gasket they have just came out with.

Anyway, get you some ARP head studs and put it all back together. That's what I'm about to do next weekend if I can just get all my parts together.

You are also going to have to have the following:

New cam bolts
New crank pulley bolt
New main bolts(expensive)
New flywheel bolts(if needed)
And some loctite for some of the bolts.

Plan on spending about 100 bucks in just bolts, not including the head studs.
The machine work is probably gonna run you around 250...thats what its going to be for me but that's including cleaning and surfacing my flywheel for my new clutch.

That's all I know of at the moment.

Good luck with it,
Vince.

Witt

We just found any excuse to build the engines. We're doing a couple at once so parts having been rolling in almost daily.

Balance shafts
Valve Springs
Both came yesterday. Trying to get em done before the track opens for its first weekend.

Oh and that photo album, yeah, I had nothing to do with anything else anyone finds in there.

NJHK

I never said you were a troll, I don't hate you or anything, I'm juts being honest and just having some fun. I thought it was kind of funny that you asked for a clay figure to prove his statement.

Wasn't trying to insult you or anything, just saying.

You're still welcome to the forum, i was just putting some humor into the situation.

aj_92rs

A'ight.

It's just I've been accused of being a troll by others here, which couldn't be further from the truth.

Besides, conflict is what discussions are for.

NJHK

It's all good.