Mods done to date on my SS, results and pics (as promised)
10-23-2005, 08:49 PM
#26
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hey drew, whats up.
On topic: It wouldnt matter if its on a mustang dyno or not. After the Intake and header, he didnt gain 1 HP. Hell, he lost 5 hp. Notice that all his runs are on a mustang dyno, so that doesnt matter. He should see SOME sort of improvement.
Recalibrated PCMs are VERY important. Now you guys see why I was pushing for someone in the chicago area to contact DHP so you guys could get a PCM out. Hell, if there was enough interest, they could release a complete PCM tuner for you guys (aka the Powertuner) and you could compelty tune your own setup, far more things you can do with a PCM tuner than a piggyback.
Im sorry that you "wasted" your money, but tuning (especially with smaller pulleys) is VERY important. You cant expect to stuff more air into your engine, and assume the PCM will automatically do everything for you. Dont give up. Get a piggyback installed, and have fun again. I assure you that you will love your car once you get it tuned. Youve just learned a valuable lesson, which hopefully everyone will take with them. You mod the wrong way, you will not get the HP you desire. Pulley, Header, DP, Intake are all great mods. But if youre not tuned for them, they will leave you with a big dissapointment. Dont give up. Modding cars should be fun. you made some bad choices (not really bad choices, just you should have gotten other things first) and you learned from them. Dont give up and keep your head up.
On topic: It wouldnt matter if its on a mustang dyno or not. After the Intake and header, he didnt gain 1 HP. Hell, he lost 5 hp. Notice that all his runs are on a mustang dyno, so that doesnt matter. He should see SOME sort of improvement.
Recalibrated PCMs are VERY important. Now you guys see why I was pushing for someone in the chicago area to contact DHP so you guys could get a PCM out. Hell, if there was enough interest, they could release a complete PCM tuner for you guys (aka the Powertuner) and you could compelty tune your own setup, far more things you can do with a PCM tuner than a piggyback.
Im sorry that you "wasted" your money, but tuning (especially with smaller pulleys) is VERY important. You cant expect to stuff more air into your engine, and assume the PCM will automatically do everything for you. Dont give up. Get a piggyback installed, and have fun again. I assure you that you will love your car once you get it tuned. Youve just learned a valuable lesson, which hopefully everyone will take with them. You mod the wrong way, you will not get the HP you desire. Pulley, Header, DP, Intake are all great mods. But if youre not tuned for them, they will leave you with a big dissapointment. Dont give up. Modding cars should be fun. you made some bad choices (not really bad choices, just you should have gotten other things first) and you learned from them. Dont give up and keep your head up.
10-23-2005, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by stuffy236
hey drew, whats up.
Recalibrated PCMs are VERY important. Now you guys see why I was pushing for someone in the chicago area to contact DHP so you guys could get a PCM out. Hell, if there was enough interest, they could release a complete PCM tuner for you guys (aka the Powertuner) and you could compelty tune your own setup, far more things you can do with a PCM tuner than a piggyback.
Recalibrated PCMs are VERY important. Now you guys see why I was pushing for someone in the chicago area to contact DHP so you guys could get a PCM out. Hell, if there was enough interest, they could release a complete PCM tuner for you guys (aka the Powertuner) and you could compelty tune your own setup, far more things you can do with a PCM tuner than a piggyback.
10-23-2005, 09:27 PM
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Jesus if I was in Chicago I would definately leave my car. If it wasn't winter coming I would consider driving down there if they gave me a hotel for a week LOL!!!
10-23-2005, 10:08 PM
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Other informations ...
Originally Posted by SCdyne
Here is how I see it:
Other than a smaller pulley, no properly designed intake, header or exhaust will free up more air than would be seen between the difference of a vehicle located at sea level and one at 6000' ASL in Colorado. Because of the fact that vehicles are operated at both sea level (and even better than sea level conditions) and at high altitudes the PCM is able to adjust for the change and everything in between.
Exhaust wise all you can do at best is provide no restriction as the engine opens the valves and expels the gas from it. Its not possible to actually suck more air in the engine because the volume of air entering the engine is defined by the supercharger and equally so the throttle body.
Now for the intake side of things you are in a position to change the opening size by changing the size of the throttle body and since its a MAF based system you can make the PCM think it has either less or more air entering the engine based on the velocity of air passing over the sensor.
Has anyone measured the inside diameter of the stock intake at the MAF sensor and compared that to the inside diameter of any aftermarket intake? No matter what any vendor says it should be the EXACT same profile. Additionally the MAF sensor needs to be located in the EXACT same position in the tube. Any changes to this and it will have big impacts on how the PCM responds to the air entering the engine.
Other than a smaller pulley, no properly designed intake, header or exhaust will free up more air than would be seen between the difference of a vehicle located at sea level and one at 6000' ASL in Colorado. Because of the fact that vehicles are operated at both sea level (and even better than sea level conditions) and at high altitudes the PCM is able to adjust for the change and everything in between.
Exhaust wise all you can do at best is provide no restriction as the engine opens the valves and expels the gas from it. Its not possible to actually suck more air in the engine because the volume of air entering the engine is defined by the supercharger and equally so the throttle body.
Now for the intake side of things you are in a position to change the opening size by changing the size of the throttle body and since its a MAF based system you can make the PCM think it has either less or more air entering the engine based on the velocity of air passing over the sensor.
Has anyone measured the inside diameter of the stock intake at the MAF sensor and compared that to the inside diameter of any aftermarket intake? No matter what any vendor says it should be the EXACT same profile. Additionally the MAF sensor needs to be located in the EXACT same position in the tube. Any changes to this and it will have big impacts on how the PCM responds to the air entering the engine.
I just measured the stock Cobalt SS intake inside diameter at MAF location and it's measuring the same as Fujita CAI, around 2,875 inches. Both are round (not oval). One thing is different: On the stock air box, the MAF is not perpendicular from the flow, it is roughly at 60 degrees. I don't think it's the main problem, because as previously said on another thread, I have myself whitnessed (on 2 Cobalt SS) a dyno loss by only replacing the stock air filter with a high flow K&N drop-in filter.
We should'nt forget that Cobalt's stock intake aren't the same as Ion Redline's one. Maybe on Redline a CAI will produce some extra HP, but I have not seen yet an independant dyno test who prove HP gains on the Cobalt.
10-23-2005, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by SCdyne
Digial Horse Power Inc who probably already has the source code/ hardware to make it happen.
10-23-2005, 11:18 PM
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It really isn't that technical. The stock ECM is tuned to stock parts and from what I have seen it doesn't want to be friends with the aftermarket. Using a piggy back is a band aid fix and it lacks true potential.
Solution, deal with the fact that we must wait a little longer for GM to release the re-flashes.
Now I just hope this **** won't have to be dealer ******* installed to retain my warranty.
Solution, deal with the fact that we must wait a little longer for GM to release the re-flashes.
Now I just hope this **** won't have to be dealer ******* installed to retain my warranty.
10-23-2005, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by BlAckOnBLaCK
So you think that may prevent the CEL for the mean time as long as you don't drive the hell out of the car until the car can be flashed?
I think Jmc007 is on the money w/ the problem being a lack of fuel in the higher RPMs. I had gone almost two weeks with no CEL problems then on Friday I was cruising around and getting on it a lot more than usual and boom, that's when my CEL came on. I used my friends scanner to reset the DTC's that same night. Now yesterday I drove around very modestly, babied her around. Skip to tonight, a few friends and I went cruising around (great weather today hehe), got on her pretty good for an hour, and boom CEL came back on. Seems like the more I bring her up into the higher RPM's (consistantly within a few hours), the likelyer I get a CEL.
10-23-2005, 11:53 PM
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Lets not forget that a few people have DTC P0171 in STOCK form. I also talk to a guy last nite at a car meet who said his car was reflash for this problem. He also said there is a TSB on it. I've never heard of it.
10-24-2005, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by GotBoost?
Does the psi-fi lit come with the piggyback?
10-25-2005, 12:42 AM
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Would this product help any with the "lean" problems with modding your air intake/exhaust? The MSD FUEL THINGGYhttp://www.maximumboost.net/cob0520essairfuel.html 
10-25-2005, 11:56 AM
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DHP makes excellent products. They are the best company in the Grand Prix community for tuning. I'm running their PCM right now, and love it. I really think they could help you guys. They've always been great to us, with the best customer service.
I'd keep emailing or calling, especially if one of you guys lives close enough to swing by or drop your car off and get this rolling.
I'd keep emailing or calling, especially if one of you guys lives close enough to swing by or drop your car off and get this rolling.
10-25-2005, 02:39 PM
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Yeah I found it. Here you go Jmc007
http://65.109.52.43/faq.htm
http://65.109.52.43/faq.htm
10-25-2005, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by BlAckOnBLaCK
Yeah I found it. Here you go Jmc007
http://65.109.52.43/faq.htm
http://65.109.52.43/faq.htm
)
10-25-2005, 07:50 PM
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Let's continue this thread ... computer timing.
Today I was thinking about why a CAI and a header didn't gave me any HP. First I was suspecting the CAI, since I had already got bad dyno results with a replaced drop-in high flow filter. About my air / fuel ratio, it was already high with only the 3" pulley, and is much higher with the CAI and header ! So today I came to the conclusion that maybe the PCM pulls timing ! And since I was suspecting the CAI, I even wrote a e-mail to Fujita. Here is my e-mail and their answer; they replied with the same conclusion !
From: Jean-Marc
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 7:20 PM
To: info@f5air.com
Subject: No gain from the CA-1416 Cobalt SS intake.
Hi ! I am from Quebec City, Canada. I purchased this very intake from Ptuning. I got 2 baseline runs (210 WHP on a mustang dyno in 4th gear)) and after I got the CAI and a performance header installed, then get 2 other dyno runs on the same day, which gaves me 210 and 215 WHP; no improvement at all. We didn't reset the PCM between the part swapping. Is there something I should do to achieve the advertised 14 WHP gain ? My air / fuel ratio is a bit lean at 13.5 or 13.8 on the very last few RPM's. My modifications are a 10% smaller supercharger puller, a replaced muffler and a header. Or could I expect a refund ? Since the MAF on the Cobalt are very tricky to deal with ...
Thanks, have a nice day !
Jean-Marc
Quebec City, Canada
Your car is running more lean because of the smaller pulley and increased boost. Did you do anything to your fuel mapping ? It is very possible for your computer to go in safe mode and back off timing to prevent detonation. Our dyno is based off of a stock vehicle and is a realistic number. We did extensive testing and feel our numbers are repeatable. Perhaps you should dyno each part independently. If you have any questions, please call Brian at 951-694-9177.
Regards,
Ryan Takashima
Fujita Air
42136 Remington Ave.
Temecula, CA 92590
Tel 951-694-9177 x102
Fax 951-694-9277
www.F5air.com
AIM F5AirRyan
So what you guys think about that ? Thanks, have a nice day !
From: Jean-Marc
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 7:20 PM
To: info@f5air.com
Subject: No gain from the CA-1416 Cobalt SS intake.
Hi ! I am from Quebec City, Canada. I purchased this very intake from Ptuning. I got 2 baseline runs (210 WHP on a mustang dyno in 4th gear)) and after I got the CAI and a performance header installed, then get 2 other dyno runs on the same day, which gaves me 210 and 215 WHP; no improvement at all. We didn't reset the PCM between the part swapping. Is there something I should do to achieve the advertised 14 WHP gain ? My air / fuel ratio is a bit lean at 13.5 or 13.8 on the very last few RPM's. My modifications are a 10% smaller supercharger puller, a replaced muffler and a header. Or could I expect a refund ? Since the MAF on the Cobalt are very tricky to deal with ...
Thanks, have a nice day !
Jean-Marc
Quebec City, Canada
Your car is running more lean because of the smaller pulley and increased boost. Did you do anything to your fuel mapping ? It is very possible for your computer to go in safe mode and back off timing to prevent detonation. Our dyno is based off of a stock vehicle and is a realistic number. We did extensive testing and feel our numbers are repeatable. Perhaps you should dyno each part independently. If you have any questions, please call Brian at 951-694-9177.
Regards,
Ryan Takashima
Fujita Air
42136 Remington Ave.
Temecula, CA 92590
Tel 951-694-9177 x102
Fax 951-694-9277
www.F5air.com
AIM F5AirRyan
So what you guys think about that ? Thanks, have a nice day !
10-25-2005, 07:59 PM
#47
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Another information ...
Forgot to say that here in Quebec City, Canada, the highest octane pump gas available is only at 91. It didn't help me with this issue. Maybe I could use some octane booster or whatever ? Thanks ...
10-25-2005, 08:27 PM
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I'm still running the stock plugs ... Maybe some one range colder plugs would help (if there is any knock) ? But if it haven't any knock, does swapping the plugs could help to avoid the PCM pulling timing ?
10-25-2005, 08:44 PM
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What is the stock gap? As soon as the the US post office finds my 3" pulley in the mail system I plan to install one step colder gapped at .35 like it says on the SouthFloridaPulley HQ web site.
10-25-2005, 10:57 PM
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The PCM should only pull timing if there is knock. If your not getting any knock, theres no point in changing the plugs. Maybe adjusting the gaps to help with high rpm misfires.
But trying some colder plugs is cheap and easy and always worth a shot, if you can scan the car at the same time.
But trying some colder plugs is cheap and easy and always worth a shot, if you can scan the car at the same time.