Right, you and I, along with many others, have discussed this before... the support around the sleeve is different between the GenI and the GenII. I know you know this.

The LNF's are supported better and are stronger out of the box. The sleeves are identical, the difference is in the support structure. The LSJ's, however, are better and more receptive to aftermarket sleeves. Pretty sure ZZP did a thread on this a few years back.

Most of the work is in the tune... but a factory GenII block is stronger than a factory GenI block.

There are a ton of people you can ask about LSJ sleeves, as well. As we all know, cmiller pushed the limits of his block. **** happens.



There have been a few LNF blocks pushed well into the 500's and to the edge of the 600's. You cannot say the same about any LSJ block on factory sleeves.

Precision doesn't map their turbos... or at least they don't release that info. I looked for the PT5557 map for a long time until someone in the know clued me in that they don't make that information available.

 

Teh boost gauge needle is all crazy. Unless I'm wot

 

So thinner is better? I think that's so bull lol. Just saying. I have read a ton of threads about the strength of the lsj motor, so why are there more stock lsj motors making more power than lnf stock motors?

 

There aren't. Plain and simple. I haven't seen one stock block LSJ make 600whp... much less 500whp. I know of 3 LNF's to hit 600whp, with a few more over 500whp - cmiller being one of them.

When talking about the ZZP Girdled blocks, that's a different story...

 

this is all good info, but even zzp states that the LNF block is weaker, they said that GM tried to cool the block better on the LNF making the material thinner in that area to increase coolant flow... http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/...lock-Gen3.aspx

 

Right. I've also been away from the site for quite a while and do now see where ZZP is saying the block itself likes to crack - but as far as I can tell, it's not a sleeve problem.

None of it matters to me for my block, as I will most likely be sticking with low 400's.


I also see on ZZP's website where they mention GenIII blocks... which I know nothing about. Must be a new thing. This is what happens when you stop paying attention to a community, I guess.

 

Has MrB had anyone test his sleeves to full potential?

 

paul did 490 on a stock short block
06black did 600+ on stock rods n sleeves.

 

and cmiller's block also split in half and zzp's gen2 block were splitting in half also a gen1 or a sand cast gen3 is the best bang out there

 

only one is running them(c-130aviator) mine will be up soon and another will be up sooner c

 

Oh ok then mrb so what exactly is the weak point of our lsj's

 

you must not have dug deep enough. I found a compressor map of my 6262 before i purchased it.

and i will be pushing the stock lsj sleeves to their limits with one of the best tuners out there. we will see how they hold that combined with my 10.1 compression and built and ported head im curious. But like i said i have a big sleeve block already in the works

 

i soon will test the same components as well. Still being on stock sleeves and rods

 

everyone has their own thoughts on that i did what i did because of the stock sleeves are junk from gm they are a finished sleeve and when you put them into the block they go out of round past the spec which will cause problems in the long run i honestly think the main reason so many lsj have busted the block is due to incorrect piston to wall clearances and out of spec bores

 

My idea of full potential is not to destroy my sleeves or see how much power it takes to break them but it is to see the longevity of the block with a large amount of daily driving and WOT pulls. I got mrbelvedere sleeves for longevity. The most I think my sleeves will see for a while is this 20g. I have had my block to 420whp on them already and peaked at 28 psi. Engine didnt even break a sweat (knock, show signs of problems) on the dyno. I think with fuel mods I will see this turbo do 450 wheel, thats over 500 crank. Unless I come into some money soon or someone wants to set me up with a bigger turbo for free, I wont be testing mrvelvedere sleeves to failure. I would stop at 500 whp anyway. That is where I would feel confident that my car would give me years of reliability and still be more than I ever really wanted.

I can tell you right now at 410 I am having a blast in this car. I dont even wait for people to get over anymore on the highway, just drop to 3rd and you are around them before they put their blinker on (or with some the like to think they own the lane and just sit there, I get by them before they try and pace me to keep me from passing). I can promise you at these power levels the car is just stupid fun. I have to get a go pro vid of peoples reaction to the turboxs h-rfl BOV.

 

You see more LNF blocks making 500hp before they break because they either start with an upgraded turbo or the DI is already lacking in adding fuel so people are using a 5th injector from the start to keep their blocks from going lean. It appears that less are breaking but I thinks its because the majority of modded LNF's were already in a upgrade the turbo mindset.

With the LSJ you have a whole community of supercharger guys/gals trying to make huge power without a complete turbo swap gives the impression that block breaks with less power when its just bad tuning/supporting mods in my opinion.

The ZZP LSJ twinchargers was making near 500 before breaking stuff and that was with the slamming the block takes with supercharged air. I dont think there has been enough members that have actually had a stock block tested with proper sleeves (cromoly, not out of round).

I had my sleeves bored after install so they are in place before setup for my diamond pistons. As mrb stated. The stock sleeves are installed and not honed to spec. BUT there are a few people out there beating on the stock LSJ block with great results but they are few and far between. Blazin07ss comes to mind.

 

mine took extreme back to back abuse since 4 miles on the odometer. Had the meth not failed id still be rocking a stock block

 

you were one of the Wednesday built motors I was talking about. And the meth failing... I have seen that so many times it hurts. There has to be a way of keeping your car from blowing up if meth fails.

 

blocks don't run lean the afr will as for the lnf making 500hp there isn't as many as you think there has also been more lnf blocks replaced do to porosity problems and that would be more of a reason of why they are weaker then lsj block and as why zzp probably isn't using them anymore

2.0 T/C - All Out POWER POTENTIAL!!
Slap a big snail on it, build the motor, get nitrous injected, whatever it takes to MAKE POWER on a 2.0 T/C LNF
1. Matt M (ZZP) 607whp, 547wtq Verified Mustang TK/CP/IC/CAM/CB/E85 Graph
2. FasterIsBetter, 508whp, 473wtq, Verified Mustang Dyno, E/T/ZZPtk/PI/PH/FI/E85/OB/FS/CP/IC/C/GM1S/CD/ZZPGirdledBlock, Graph
3. cmiller8006, 501whp, 447wtq Verified Mustang Dyno, E, T, ZZPtk, CD, TB, C, RG, IC, CP, FI Graph
4. gone_in_10_sec, 486whp, 517wtq ZZPtck/H/DP/CD/SRI/CP/IC/T/C02/N2O-75/RG Graph
5. 1badBlueberrySC, 455whp, 410wtq Verified Dynojet, PTE2871r(22psi)/H/DP/CD/CP/WI/T/E Graph


what do you mean making huge power without a complete turbo swap? most broken blocks happened after a piston swap because when you have .010 or more piston to wall clearance it will beat the sleeve into submission

as with the slamming the block takes with supercharged air ? to be honest a snail will put pressure faster on the block then the s/c will sc is rpm dependent

the stock sleeves from gm are a finished sleeve junk made and honed to spec the ones I get (the ones in your engine) are not stock and are not finished

 

message too short error blah blah blah

 

Superchargers have a lot more area under the dyno curve than a turbo (thats a lot more work for the engine, basic physics, shooowt basic understanding of mechanics. There is more mechanical work being performed at lower rpms.

a turbo still boost faster then a blower and will put more pressure on the engine faster then a supercharger will/ It takes a snail what a 1000 or less rpm(guessing) to reach full spool and full load on the engine it takes from your starting rpm to 7000 to or were ever you pull to reach full boost so the load is spread out over a few thousand rpm


you said earlier The stock sleeves are installed and not honed to spec. and that is incorrect the stock sleeves from gm are finished

 

there is we left the kr learn factors alone so the car will pull timing if needed. Unfortuately on the track running what i did the P12 computer in our cars just dont have the refresh rate to pull it in time and thats all she wrote

 

are the finished before they go in the block? I read somewhere they are all sized at 86mm before going in the block. At any rate we are all in agreement that the material is subpar compared to the stuff available today. If you are going to do a build spend a little extra and get the cromo sleeves. I cant tell you how good it feels to have a snug piston, knowing how loose they were in my stock block was disconcerning. These things fit so good in the new finished to order cromo sleeves they were a pain to get the rings past the piston ring clamp when installing them in the cylinder.

 

the sleeves you get from gm are finished and ready to use before installation pop and roll with them being out of round yours which aren't stock nor are they a gm piece were un finished

 

Right but you had them finished with a machine shop and had my block decked and honed. Right. LOL, I was confused cause you mean unfinished when ordered new then you installed them and finished them. I was thinking you meant unfinished when I got the block. My heart skipped a beat. Almost 'd a little.