Bluelightning

iTrader: (8)

That's what I mean!

And their cheaper price I think is just because of Black Friday. I believe it's on par with ZZP.

mrbelvedere

iTrader: (3)

they still need checked for valve to piston clearance and centerline if its off you will need to use adj cam gears and retime the hex but I would run the biggest cam they have

mrbelvedere

iTrader: (3)

to many variables to compare grinds

JapEatr

iTrader: (9)

How does stage four compare with yours John?

mrbelvedere

iTrader: (3)

my intake cam is .456 222@50 exh is .453 224@50

without putting a degree wheel on the s4 its hard to tell I could have a faster rate of lift then they or not my cams may have a bigger lobe then theirs to many variables in play but like I said above it all needs checked piston to valve and centerline and if the centerline is off then it needs adj and the hex retimed no cam is is 100&% plug and play if you want the most out of it

Bluelightning

iTrader: (8)

Ya that's the thing, I have a feeling nothing has really been tested with these cams. Unless josh will chime in with numbers. But good info john.

Bluelightning

iTrader: (8)

Speaking of cams $125 off at ZZP right now!

Powell Race Parts

iTrader: (3)

there is basically one camshaft outfit left in america its comp cams. its possible to have custom grinds made, and Mr. Belvedere did just that.

as for testing the only vendor on here tests engine stuff like that is ZZP. Its an interesting dynamic, just copying modifying and throwing stuff out there without testing just as Bluelightening has suggested. I wonder what Rudy at FMSR has tested.

does rudy have a dyno cell? we know ott doesnt. LIke it or not, it comes to ZZP have and do test a lot. The cams i buy from ZZP for our customers check out 100% everytime.

The only thing I do for engines is stuff that is either engineered or developed through OEM Channels. Most of it is lsj stuff from long ago. Our PCV stuff is new and evolving and I said at the get go, the science is right , but the customers are basically part of a pretty large field test program.... and the customer response has been very good and the individual reports very well thought out. Smart guys modding these cars.


The Cobalt scene is changing and its interesting to draw a comparison about vendors and the folks doing business with the members here, to the new goldfish in the fish bowl that think the ***** cat looking at them licking his lips is a cuddly friendly creature.

mrbelvedere

iTrader: (3)

I would not be afraid to try a set comp is pretty dam good at doing what they do but still you need to check things

Bluelightning

iTrader: (8)

I was JUST saying the exact same thing to a friend haha. They've got this 75% off Black Friday sale that most I've seen no results on.

mrbelvedere

iTrader: (3)

zzp never proved their cams either the few that have bought them did that

Bluelightning

iTrader: (8)

Directly tested no. But track times and records yes. What does OTTP or FMSR have for any of that?

mrbelvedere

iTrader: (3)

the only track times and records zzp have is on their stage 3 cams and a turbo grind nothing more so that point is basically useless and all of zzp sc grinds are comp turbo grinds with a few changes like I said I would not be one bit afraid to buy comps cams from ottp comp is good at what they do

Bluelightning

iTrader: (8)

I never said anything about steering away from OTTPs cams. I just mentioned about testing them. Your cams aren't just drop in and go. OTTPs S4's are similar to yours so how any people will just drop them in and go thinking that's what they are? Probably a lot. Nothing says otherwise.

Who knows maybe they are. Time will tell.

mrbelvedere

iTrader: (3)

no cam is 100% drop in and go to many timing components that are mass produced to throw the cams out

Bluelightning

iTrader: (8)

You get what I mean haha

Powell Race Parts

iTrader: (3)

just another silly comment JW . read this

https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/08-1...ml#post7206983

For engines, ZZP do more than any other vendor on here with first hand R&D not just plucking numbers ou t of the air and having it made. They have more experience I suggest than you do. It comes down to the number of experienced people and the sheer volume of work they do. I have worked on their conversions to cure issues, and there was nothing wrong at all with their builds, very well done. Issues with things like failed PCM or failed parts are just the way of life with a car.

I am not a nutswinger for ZZP. Its just clearly fair to give credit where credit is due and to review the facts.

I dont have a road wheel dyno, and based on what I see, I wont ever get one. Do you? NO. You surely have access to one, as do I, but thats a big difference to doing it in house.

equipment + expertise + a lot of money= r&d. I bet you JW DO NOT have the money to put into as much R&D as Zoomer and his crew have into engines.
Heck, I bet NO ONE on here as done as much track work R&D as I have with Cobalt /Delta.

It may come as a shock to people, once they have built their cars mods and all, that there is now an equal amount of time and money or more, that has to be spent to make that modded car a sucessful completed project.
Some vendors here dont have one engine in house to check and develop parts on, let alone an inventory of different ones. ZZP have box cars full of engines.

mrbelvedere

iTrader: (3)

no its not just another silly comment they have never posted proof on this site about their cams if they have I never seen it but they were supposed to post dyno sheets showing the differences but they never did the proof has all been word of mouth by people who have bought them me included and the gov posting his dyno sheet with the stage2 cams that's it do the zzp cams work yea but there are better choices I wanted a set of cams that was not retweaked from another grind but tailored to what I wanted


comp cams just don't pull numbers out of their asses to grind cams they have more time and money spent into designing and grinding cams then anyone and they know what works and I would say that is why zzp went to them just because it dose not have the zzp or john powell stamped on it dose not make it untrust worthy junk

I like zzp they have some awesome stuff but there are more choices then just them

Powell Race Parts

iTrader: (3)

I posted info on stage 2 cams and said what the torque curve was,I said the customer waas happy but I ddint like the results, and you crapped all over what i said.

sooner or later, you have to wonder. that vendor with the fancy cams has a track record of picking numbers out of his ass and then putting them up for sale. ZZP do the grunt work.

I strongly dislike cams for an LSJ and this is the TVS thread, I have a TVS and I have experience with both hot cams and stock cams. I make my choice, I advice customers as I feel, and then do whatever they ask.

changing the lsa for driveability is common practice. lift and duration higher and longer the more difficult it becomes. Comp cams are pretty much the only game in town. so not a lot new here.

like you say you cant just pop them in unless someone does the pre fits. ZZP do that for everything I buy from them. I dont have the same confidence in other vendors. If I was to buy your cams from you I would be confident that you would do the prefit work. its all a question of who you beleive and the track record and background.

No vendors as far as I know have posted dyno sheets on long tube headers. I have done that work on my own.

just as i rated springs for the suspension.

mrbelvedere

iTrader: (3)

we know you don't like nothing but stock cams and that is fine and dandy but there are some of us who want more then what stock cams will give you. as for the vendor with the fancy cams and the magical numbers pulled from his ass i would say that they relied on the cam grinders mountain of experience to give the direction they needed to go in
but still just putting the hex in in the correct location dose not mean that you are installing the cams on the correct centerline they can still be off either way and if they are and you need to move the cam then that can throw the hex out of time and then you will need to decide if your willing to sacrifice some power loss or take the time and retime the hex so in all reality no cam is 100% drop in and run if done correctly
as for changing the centerline for drivability is not common practice that i know of i change it to change power delivery and cylinder pressure and just because you have more lift and duration doesn't mean it will be harder to drive
as for selling cams i don't sell cams i just had my own custom ground for me and the power delivery i wanted if you drove my car you would want the cams i have it drives better then a stock cammed engine

armcclure

iTrader: (2)

For the record, I will say that mrB's car runs and drives like an amplified stock car. Incrediy smooth. The cams don't "hit" as you would expect from something that large. It's just a nice smooth ever increasing pull.

zrated89

iTrader: (15)

yall aint ****

Powell Race Parts

iTrader: (3)

"we know you don't like nothing but stock cams and that is fine and dandy but there are some of us who want more then what stock cams will give you. as for the vendor with the fancy cams and the magical numbers pulled from his ass i would say that they relied on the cam grinders mountain of experience to give the direction they needed to go in
but still just putting the hex in in the correct location dose not mean that you are installing the cams on the correct centerline they can still be off either way and if they are and you need to move the cam then that can throw the hex out of time and then you will need to decide if your willing to sacrifice some power loss or take the time and retime the hex so in all reality no cam is 100% drop in and run if done correctly
as for changing the centerline for drivability is not common practice that i know of i change it to change power delivery and cylinder pressure and just because you have more lift and duration doesn't mean it will be harder to drive
as for selling cams i don't sell cams i just had my own custom ground for me and the power delivery i wanted if you drove my car you would want the cams i have it drives better then a stock cammed engine"




^^^ exactly Mr. B, we are in violent agreement. Except the part where you said I would want your cams. But never say never.....

Josh@ottp

iTrader: (4)

The comp 222 degree lobe is actually a more aggressive lobe than the 224. It is also bigger than it at .200" lift and up. It will make slightly more power than the 224 lobe all things equal. Has less overlap too.

mrbelvedere

iTrader: (3)

they still need checked