Leafydialupking

iTrader: (1)

Its the best thing ever.

xxxxsh4d0wxxxx

iTrader: (1)

Funny, I saw no higher than 135*F when it was 88*F, in the beginnig of muggy ass humid Chicago summer.. With water, ZZP S3 FMHE, and STOCK end plate. My buddy who was the one logging is a member on here and I'm sure he would be happy to verify..

Doesn't seem like you're cooling much buddy....

Sharkey

iTrader: (1)

the part that takes time and money are designing and manufacturing a tank specific for the application. to us it doesnt seem all that hard, draw it up and have a company make it. the reality is for gm to build a part like that they have an engineer design and cad draw it, then send the design out to the company that will make it and have them check it over, then another company has to make the molds for it. after all that, then the molds can be poured and the tanks assembled. this all costs money, and for something thats going to be a low production piece. iirc there was less than 20,000 ss/sc cobalts produced, and how many get modded, and how many of those actually get to the point of dual pass and option b?? not that many, not enough to make designing and producing a special coolant tank just for this application. had they done that it would likely be a very expensive piece to cover production costs. now add in the ion redline guys, itll be a different tank, so the process has to start all over again for them.

what gm performance did was take an off the shelf part and made it work without modification for a better system.

and no, i have never measured the temps of my intercooler coolant, but i do know it doesnt get very hot. however if it goes up 5 degrees thats less ability it has to soak up heat from the charge air. in general, the cooler you can keep the intercooler coolant the more effective the system will be at cooling the charge air. adding a large flow through tank to hold more water, as i said before, will help at the dragstrip or dyno. it takes a lot longer to heat up 5 gallons of water than it does 1 gallon, even if we are only talking it heating up 5 degrees.

87gn06gto07irl

iTrader: (8)

Powell, sharkey, sh4dow, what are your opinions on a flow through WITH a bleed line? Sounds like a great idea to me, especially if you can add ice. Seems like the logical way to go.

Sharkey

iTrader: (1)

now keep in mind ive never run a flow through tank, i currently run dual pass with option b, but im using a small aluminum surge tank instead of the gm tank.

now i myself think the flow through tank has its benefits, but i wouldnt consider running one without the bleed line. the bleed line is an obvious positive thing, and it should function the same in a flow through tank as it does with the option b. your only going to see a benifit with it for drag racing or dyno runs, and possibly auto cross. road racing or street driving wont see much benefit over an option b

zfissette

iTrader: (5)

so about moving the main radiator to the trunk and using a aluminum radiator thats as big as a griffin + stock radiator as a h/e

mrbelvedere

iTrader: (3)

that would be the ****

there are good and bad points to each system mentioned

klloyd

iTrader: (3)

Whats the price on this aluminum tank? How are you guys with a dual pass running the lines in and out of this? I have option b but would like to get it as cold as possible, and my tank opening isn't big enough to fit ice in anyway.

***anyone have pictures with this mounted?

xxxxsh4d0wxxxx

iTrader: (1)

You are correct, it will take longer to heat a larger area if water as opposed to a smaller tank, for sure. The only thing wrong with that - The water is not heating up to infinite numbers. Like I said, the coolant really doesn't get as hot as you think. The stock LSJ sustem transfers heat very well due to the core design. Like John said the LSJ has a very interesting design.. I have a good friend with a 2004 5.7l GTO with a maggie supercharger on it, and the way it works, the blowe sits in this cooling tray which is connected right to the head. The blower/tray are essentially the intake manifold. The tray has coolant passages to disperse heat, yes it has a "flow through" system.. That system is absolutely nothing like the LSJ. Even his tank is only a bit bigger than our option b tank, and trust me it's worth noting that his blower is very large.. You're not in boost that much for it to make a significant difference, sure as hell not enough to warrant carrying a fish tank in the trunk and running lines under the car..

05Slowline

iTrader: (2)

this

06cobalt racer

iTrader: (11)

if you use the right fittings you wont have leaks. i used to use sealant to seal the fittings that were in my tank and they did leak. but then i got some fittings that had an o-ring and a plastic nut to tighten. since then i have had no leaks.

Leafydialupking

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, you dont want a fishing tank. You need to size the tank for your application. If you are doing drag mostly, build the tank to have 13 seconds worth of fluid in it. Going to auto-x build in 60, although that may not be possible. This is why air to air is recommended for road racing because it doesnt heat sink as much, but air to water works better before its heat sunk. You could experiment with fluids, find something with a lower heat capacity but the same or better heat transfer coef. As you lower the heat capacity you have to increase he fluid velocity and increase the size of the front mount h/e, though it will heat soak less. I dont know why I bother because no one will try this, I wont 50/50 dex cool is fine with me. Maybe next summer I'll switch to water + water whetter.

And leaks? You'll laugh if I show how hacked together my h/e setup is with some of the adaptations I made. No leaks, because I did the connections correctly.

xxxxsh4d0wxxxx

iTrader: (1)

I run 100% water and it works far better than 50/50 coolant. My temps recover extremely quickly also. That's another reason I say it's not needed. No one is pushing their **** so hard that the stock system can't keep up. Unless you're doing 15 back to back pulls in a 100*F heat wave.. It's just not happening. You'd have to be in heavy boost for some time to really heat it up to the extent that another 1gal of water is going to make a ***** difference.. I can do multiple pulls and still get out and my manifold is cool to the touch.

Leafydialupking

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, 100% water would be better but I'm looking at getting a freeze in the next 2 months and with the current h/e I have to pull a hose to drain it. So its not worth it to me. The new h/e is going to have a petcock to drain it so I will be running water + water whetter in the summer.

zfissette

iTrader: (5)

seriously, if you can run a fish tank in your trunk, you can run a radiator. custom trunk lid, no wing, small air intakes right after the window near the front of the lid, louvers on the back face, put the reverse lights in the rear bumper like a pontiac grand am and eliminate the ones on the lid itself by switching to the g5 lid. a pair of small electric fans and run a drain down through the spare tire well from a tray bolted to the underside of the lid. its not a hard mod. there is already sufficient power run to the back of the car for amps and such, those lines will easily supply a pair of small fans, then of course there is the fact that a positive air pressure exiting the back of the trunk lid will help diffuse the drag pocket created by the car in motion. many different road racing cars used fans for this and it was very effective. they were banned because they worked too well. then the front of the car becomes available for a massive h/e in place of the stock radiator and h/e and the big electric fan would be retained to keep it cool. mummy wrap the header to put its heat out of the engine bay and youve turned the engine bay into a cold environment. heck eliminate the ac condenser and youve really changed the air flow equation for this mod, it should at that point be essentially impossible to raise the temp of the intercooler fluid by any meaningful amount. heck if you were Really lazy, you would just strip out the h/e and condenser and use the stock radiator as the h/e for the ic system. youd have to change nothing in the front end to make that work, youd just need to find a wide short radiator for the back, something like a manual jeep cherokee radiator.
then of course, eliminate the ac unit, move the alternator to the ac location and fab up a alternator delete and then remove the stock filter housing and youd be able to use double length lami cores in a custom lower intake manifold fabbed up from two stock manifolds, just cut one in half, cut the middle out of the other, remove the section where it meets the runners and weld the extended unit in place on them. weld up a small connection for the bypass and your in business.
but thats all assuming you want to keep your iat2s close to your iat1s instead of below them as you would with an active intercooling system. but thats a conversation for the advanced section.

xxxxsh4d0wxxxx

iTrader: (1)

There is a much quicker way to do it.. Takes maybe 4 minutes to swap from coolant to water or vise-versa.

Yeahhh you took it over the top...... No one is going to do all that work when the stock system is plenty efficient. Actually I shouldn't say that, I'm sure someone will try it... Lol

For now I'll just stick with what I know works.

Leafydialupking

iTrader: (1)

Yeah it may take 4 minutes but taking the hose off leads to half the coolant on the driveway.

xxxxsh4d0wxxxx

iTrader: (1)

Mm.. Last time I did it I just did my way which is constantly cycling the system inducing fresh coolant/water, collect it in a 5gal bucket and throw it on my buddy's fire pit.. Lol

mrbelvedere

iTrader: (3)

xxxxsh4d0wxxxx if the stock system is plenty efficient why are you running a zzp stage3 heat exchanger

xxxxsh4d0wxxxx

iTrader: (1)

Haven't really done research until lately, honestly. The FMHE actually blocks stock system. Not very efficient honestly.. I've been contemplating selling it really.. As John said, griffin is the best by far.

I didn't mean to come off as "do as I say, not as I do".

Powell Race Parts

iTrader: (3)

here's the thing. when we did time attack the gm guys wanted an ice bath. They made one it failed, so we made one for them that worked. Picture this. Tank sits in the passenger side where the seat is. we go to the proving grounds road course to test it, and Heinricy ( fastest man alive in a Cobalt for time attack) is to drive it.

we hire an ice truck. load 150 lbs of ice in it. works great/ power is there/ iat2 are arctic. For 2 minutes of track running time. Then its just a 150 lbs of water sloshing about.
Car is slower than when it was equopped with option B dual pass and High helix M62 etc.
Heinricy says "150 lbs is like a passenger in the seat". Forget it.

We spent about 5000 dollars that day to prove that it wont work for our application. For Bonneville, where they want a 5000 lb cobalt as the wheel spin is huge so they want mass, a big ice bath works. So they say.

So for us it did not. For me, mass is everything I dont want weight, for anything.
for drag racing it would not work either, its too much weight.

Now Flatgod, he is the mang here, has put all his energy into producing a"back to the future" IM with a killer chiller and about all the things that the crazies here would love.

He has already said that he will not build a second one.

so someone here figure this out. Load the ice into a bath. Say 50 lbs of ice.Then go to the lanes. then stage, and then run the 1320.

myguess is your ice is warm water by the time you get to the tree.

IonNinja

It would seem to me that with the coolant tank inline any air bubbles in the system will be worked out as soon it flows to the tank

I don't see why there would be a need for a bleeder line and flow through setup

Leafydialupking

iTrader: (1)

There isnt need. Mine self bleeds after just running the pump for a minute. Of course my system is not set up like the stock one and I went through great pains to make sure that it would be self bleeding.

Powell Race Parts

iTrader: (3)

How do you get entrained air out of a closed circuit cooling system? Or heating system with radiators in an old house heating system.? How do you get entrained air out of an engine oil dry sump system?
think about it. Tobe sure there are different answers, but all require some means of getting rid of the air. Just having circulation in the coolant lines wont do it.

An h/e cooling system is no different.

how does the air get 'worked out"?

Leafydialupking

iTrader: (1)

Yup, you have to route it correctly such that there are no high spots to get the air trapped. Its why going dual pass is worrying me in the back of my head. and why I'm considering running 1 in and 2 outs on it. And why with my cx racing intercooler I'm going to fill the intercooler from its own filler then fill the rest of the system (because the idiot who designed it didnt put the inlets and outlets in the correct spots)