Justinian

The Intense PCM from their higher stages SHOULD make the car feel like it's running faster, because they are rated for more power. Everybody knows that and nobody's arguing it. I don't understand what your problem is. The people who got GM stage 2 are happy because their car is faster and they still have a warranty. I don't think I've seen ANYBODY claim that GM stage 2 is faster than Intense stage 5, so I have no idea what the hell you're complaining about.

red_wing_2121

How are the SS's able to handle the power from the stage 4 or 5? I mean the clutches are horrible.

undrgrndcobalt

my point exactly... with stage 2 u will destroy the clutch....

WopOnTour

That's all total Bullshit
You dont know what you are talking about...STFU
Wop

Darksun

Sorry you don't agree of course theres other factors but thats my feelings. Or what you saying that a gm flash runs harder than the intense pcm even though you know there tune will be more aggressive than the one from corporate GM? Instead of saying its all bullshit and telling me to shut up defend your case mister all knowing. Come on I've seen you post before you usually have facts and such to back up your arguments. I said what i said from what I've seen between both cars running side by side plus what fast06SS has said in a thread before back when they first got a hold of the flash about how terrible the gm flash is. I didn't believe it at first cause i thought he was being biased also but really the only gain in that kit is from the higher redline. but even so from the dynos i've seen people are still dynoing in or around 245-250 whp but taking them the extra 500 rpms to do it. Your smarter than this. If you want to own me at least back up your statments a little better. If where gonna have a debate and argue than lets argue.

Darksun

I don't remeber saying anything about the intense stage 5 either are you reading what i posted or just assuming what i typed? I never argued that if some one wants to be faster than a stock cobalt and keep a warrenty that stage 2 is the way to go but if getting truly faster is what there aiming for i don't think the gm flash is the thing to build it off of. Oh yeah when i made those post i was having a bad cobalt day parting out my car so i came off a little harsh. A little outta charcter for me. I'll check that a little better next time.

Justinian

Cool, I agree man. GM stage 2 is a good upgrade but yeah, I agree, like most factory upgrades it's not really a platform for further major tuning. We all have bad days occasionally, don't sweat it.

WopOnTour

What does the Intense tunes have to do with what you posted? (ie 3" pulley> GM Stage 2) WTF are you talking about?? Maybe go back and read what you've written...

Besides with what do you plan to argue with? I have HPT and ALL the stock and stage tune data to back my statements up, what do YOU have?? I expect you dont have one shred of real data to back up your statements. Do you even have HPTuners? Have you compared ANY aspects of the Stage tunes yourself? Pretty obviously not.(or you wouldnt be saying it)
It's obvious that all you're doing is regurgitating someone else's comments.(Perhaps someone that has something to GAIN from bashing the Stage tunes?) I suggest you purchase HPT, spend a few months to learn it, compare the files you're spoutin' off about yourself- then get back to us.
Wop

PS> Here's a quick comparison of just one of the tables the Stage calibration altered. If you DO have HPT and some "aftermarket" tune why dont you open the same table and compare it to what some so-called "expert tuners" have done
V__STOCK__V vs. V_GM STAGE_V

WopOnTour

Remember not everyone is all about drag racing or childish dyno wars.
The GM Stage tunes (like ANY factory tune) are a COMPROMISE between performance, emissions, drivability, economy and the durability of the rest of the powertrain.
Can a few more ponies be messaged from the GM Stage tune? -Certainly!! (That's already been proven)

But NOT without sacrificing SOMETHING and at the very least your warranty if that's important to you (unless of course you plan to be totally dishonest and crooked about it- and expect GM warranty to cover your clutches and axles because they should have made them able to withstand ANY horsepower)
So for many the Stage kits will continue to represent the ONLY viable option for improving the performance of their SS/SC or Redline without giving up their warranty or vanquishing the option to bring their car to their dealer when it's not running right or fails an emissions test.
JMO
WopOnTour

gforce477

Yeah sorry Darksun, the argument that a 3.0 pulley "runs harder" than GM Stage 2 holds no truth. Also I have read enough of WOP's posts to know that he is very knowledgeable.

Also to WOP I see you on the redline forums as well, I was involved in a disagreement with someone named ender in a thread titled "wet vs. dry". I respect your knowledge base and would apprieciate if you read some of the arguments on the later pages and let me know what you think. I am gforce4460 on there. Of course only if you are interested.

Dom

LittleMT

In the SRT world many thought and still think Stage 2 is a waste of money, as a building platform...

I begg'd to differ, as our thinking was the more mild less aggressive timing maps from the Mopar Stage 2 PCM were in fact ideal for big boost applications... such as 35psi from a DBB GT35R Snail....

Now my car is extremely built, however she still employs the Stage 2 PCM, Tip and Map sensors...

Car now makes 636hp/596tq...

To those that are for some reason genius' that are able to forsee the future, let me suggest to you it is much early in the game to dismiss GM's Stage 2 PCM for big power.
However my preference is HP Tuners, wish I had such a option for the SRT for the low price it sells at...

The factory upgrades are very wonderful power upgrades, I am grateful that GM even bothers to release them... Something to cater to each and everyone of us.

Darksun

See now was that so hard. And no i have nothing to gain from bashing the stage tunes I finally finished Demoding my cobalt the day i made my original post and have no intentions of remodding it in the future. Yes I have messed with hpt tuners software before and no I'm not comfortable with it but can deal. I don't have access to that kinda data as easily as you thats why i said you should post it up since i know you have it knocking around. But My argument was stock pcm with 3.0 pulley (alright and some kinda intake or intake mod) vs stage 2 so even though you posted those two comparisons which i thank you for i would still have to come up with a stock pcm on 3.0 pulley which i can't do.
BUT...................Since i can't come up with written proof I just finished putting a 3.0 pulley and intake mod on a friends cobalt today and one of my boys has stage 2 with my old exhaust. I"ll have them go at it on vid thats the best i can do. Even though this 3.0 pulley cobalt ain't as fast as my old car yet it should be more than enough i think/hope. Oh yeah he'll be on my lighter rims too. that should be fair enough some kinda real time situation of a stage 2 vs 3.0 and welfare airbox mod?

Blk06CobaltSS

Some of you people are ******* killing me, holyshit

glockglade

And you say a stock cobalt w/ a non flashed car will run "harder" than a stage 2 with a 7000 rpm limit. Dude not trying to start an arguement but your statement is ridiculous. If you are running 500 rpm's more at top end your car is definately running way harder. And that is why I bought the stage 2 and not the intense stage 3 b/c I can put a cam on it and not worry about ir running to lean. However that was b/f the pcms came out so I bet they are a lot better now. I am just worried about my car going booom.

CTCOBALTSSS

Just look at it like this. If you throw intense stage 3 or 4 or whatever on and your motor blows, who's gonna pay for it. You are. If you go GM stage 2, you have a fighting chance of them paying for it. BTW, GLOCKGLADE That smaller pulley and exhaust give you a lot of torque hah? I'm getting the same HP but 212 for torque. Nice!

zinner

3.0 inch pulley is gonna do nothing unless you did a boost bypass mod of some kind.

Also stock rev limit is 6500 and stage 1 is 7000. Plus you need more fuel for the extra 500 rpms and more boost.

I have done a 3 inch pulley and I have try different intake setups and I have tried 2.8 inch pulleys and I have tried different PCM tunes and I have compared the stage and stock tunes. And so has WOP. We speak from experience.

Darksun

by "running harder I'm not talking about being able to rev 500 rpms more. But a good point would be if that flash didn't at least give you the rev limit increase how good would it truly be? Thats what im poking at.

Darksun

I know theres always that "whats on paper" aspect of these type of things but I'm sure you guys know that just cause the stage 2 cobalt is suposed to be "Better" on paper doesn't mean it really is. The Stage kit is suposed to win against a just intake mod /pulley/ bypass mod cobalt but half the fun for me is trying to prove it's not such an easy clear cut win like you guys think. My theory even though not safe or good for the car is that a 3.0 pulley cobalt running lean and ragged as all hell can take out a nice safe stage 2 cobalt. I wanna prove that. I'm not scurrying off either I think im gonna ride this thread out cause i like a good upset. Oh yeah Warrenty be damned people need to stop brining that into the argument as a plus for the stage kit cause this argument im instigating is not about who keeps a warrenty its about which car will run the best for if you had to go put down times at a track. A fuel starved 3.0 pulley cobalt with some welfare mods or an of the shelf stage 2 cobalt. And I know some one is gonna say "well having your car run lean is stupid and your gay and stupid" and this and that blah blah blah but if you wanna get pickey 50 dollar 3.0 pulley cobalt with a couple free mods vs a $600 stage 2 cobalt who runs harder and who would win? Warrenties and faster interior argument's need not apply here (sorry joke that aways happens over at clubrsx)

gforce477

I think no one else should reply to this thread after this post unless your name is darksun.

Seriously

WopOnTour

Look there's a LOT more changed in the GM Stage tunes than just the rev limiter. So much so that "professional tuners" are copying many portions of the tunes and claiming them as their own.
I'll said it before and I'll say it again.
What you are saying is TOTAL BULLSHIT
You DONT know what you are talking about , so STFU!
Wop

PS> Here's a video of a drag race between the GM Stage 2 cobalt and a stock SS/SC
http://media.putfile.com/JekylvsJase

LittleMT

+1

..........

Darksun

you keep showing me stuff stock vs GM stage 2 why? when i keep saying 3.0 pully /intake mod/ boost bypass vs gm stage 2. And I'll prove my point once my friend with his stage 2 cobalt comes back cause the 3.0 pulley one i just put together the other day will deffinately win. I'm watching him winning races against cars in my group that my friends stage 2 one couldn't beat. And if you wanna blame it on the driver than will switch the drivers outta both cars and go from there. HAHAHA I'm realizing that most the people here are just mad cause i said the Gm flash is garbage so they want me to keep quite and stop disrupting there illusions of being this fast ass cobalt on the gm flash. You guys are a trip. Well I'll keep talking and you can keep telling me to shut up. I never said you have to believe what i said but I'm damn sure gonna put it out there.

LittleMT

Your so-called buddy needs his head examined if he allows you to setp his car in this manner.

I'll take the richer runner safer car, hell, we could lean out my SRT and make more HP if I choose to, but we use our heads with what we are trying to do, and That is safe reliable HP.

With the Cobalt and HP Tuners my car will be tuned to ran as strong as possible while avoiding a 'lean running like ragged hell' situation.

Whats the agreement if your 'buddys' car blows up due to your expertise in the tuning of these vehicles?

If I miss understood and you are talking about your car, then by all means, blow it to kingdom come....

Darksun

your still missing my argument of can a 3.0 pulley cobalt with an air box mod and boost bypass mod beat a gm stage 2, all other factors like safety and warrenties and fast interiors be left out. But you guys keep throwing in stuff like "But my warrenties intack" when im not arguing that stuff just the performance aspect of the flash or lack there of. And you say my friend needs his head examined but the kid won't be getting jumped by stock srt-4's and sti's and losing these races and making boo hoo threads like these gm stage 2 members have been posting up as of late. Thats One of the main reasons I decided to hop in this thread and stir up the pot. I'm not a fan of the flash I'm voicing that t and have every right too. Yeah I came of dick headish at first but that was a misunder standing. But Now when im trying to talk it out the cronnies/whatevers just want me to stop "bashing" the flash. Nope not gonna happen. Cause if I'm even a little right that the flash gm gives is a bunch of Bs' with a 7000 rpm redline I want people to know my feelings. And if you've had an srt-4 I'm sure you've seen the Stage0>s1 or s2 threads on the srt forums nobody bashes other members for saying it though but I've seen plenty of s0 srt-4s whoop up on s1's and 2's non hom with similar mods list. So whos to say a stage 0 cobalt with a pullie can't beat up a stage 2. Problem is I'm still open minded to the fact that i could be wrong. I always give the benifit of the doubt when i argue but the people im arguing with won't even induldge anything else except "stage flash is the bestest!" than wanna tell me to shut up and go away. The regular noobs on here i'd exspect that from but WOT that surprised me a little. You even see that Zinner though he doesn't agree with me posted up a nice paragraph with why he thinks im wrong WOT's first was "your stupid shut up and go away" But i kinda deserved it cause my first couple post in this thread were rough around the edges too.

LittleMT

I for one, didn't buy this car for a warantee. Your little method of as you said, "My theory even though not safe or good for the car is that a 3.0 pulley cobalt running lean and ragged as all hell" is a ignorant strategy to say the least. Be our guest and blow your car up, and don't liken that silly 'theory' of yours to any debate on SRT forums of Stage 0 being better then Stage 1 or Stage 2, because nobody over there from what I have seen was saying anything remotely close to you foolish 'theory'...

These cars must be tuned and tuned properly, I personally think HP Tuners is the ticket, and if I was doing your 'setup' it would include bigger injectors and HP Tuners and a nice, safe tune.

Not some run it ragg'd to hell lean bullshit, cmon... Even if you are able to outrun a GM Stage option whom in their right mind would want there car running in such a manner, a ticking time bomb so to speak...

Folks of this board, take it from someone whom has been in this game for quite sometime, you will have foolish people pop up with mods that can be dangerous to your car, be very cautious of that, be cautious of 'the cheap way'.....

Rather, seek reliable HP, even if it means spending more money or putting off buying a part till you get more money, keep your car running and having fun with it.

With a boosted application, whether it be blown or turboed, avoid a lean running condition, you just might save yourself a engine, also, there is much expertise on these boards, it should be somewhat easy to spot those whoms advice is of value.

You can make great and safe power with this car.