Omega_5

I suggest you don't do that....

What dimensions?... Pick any one of the 16G's (small, big, ported) and compare it to the GT35R.

There is no 2 ways around it, the GT flows more.

rrutter81

if both are flowing at 15 PSI, the smaller dimensions will flow less CFM.

Omega_5

Smaller dimension what?
Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean...

Smaller turbo? smaller outlet? smaller piping? What are you talking about?
Stop being so vague....

rrutter81

im trying to avoid bringing alot of equations in to the mix, because CFM will vary greatly on too many other features (which i purposely have left out of this convo). We could bring in altitude differences, temperature, dimensions, and certain bottlenecks which could fit your argument and then i would have to knock them all down another 10 pages from now. Arguing with 3 people who just argue for the sake of me being an ******* is not going to make physics change.

All of my arguments are based off identical variables that compare psi x dimensions x cfm. Strictly that.

edit:

Also this explains why i speak in terms of PSI.

When you know the PSI you know the restrictions of CFM. Knowing a problem will help you eliminate it.

In other words, when my piston is being shot through my block, i dont look at why my rods look so great. That doesnt identify the problem. I look at what could have caused this error.

PSI to me is an error BUT its a good baseline to go off of to identify how to free this restriction up to gain the proper amounts of CFM short of increasing dimensions.

I hope this clears THAT up.

Area47

im not contradicting anything. you're looking for a way out of the hole you dug.

how about you call up stegmeier in st charles missouri and explain to them that porting does nothing.

go ahead. i'll be waiting for the answer.

as psi goes up. so does cfm. untill you hit the end of the compressor map. then it's anyones guess. you are messing with a grey area that many have not delt with.

no matter how big an inlet is. it will only move so much air that the outlet will allow.

making an boosted engine more efficient will require less "psi" to make the same power, usually it makes more.

rrutter81

whoa... stop there.

Im talking about OUR car.... not other's.

The intake was never changed and IS the bottleneck. If that intake manifold did NOT increase PSI then you should have Stegmier (sp?) call up Eaton engineers and tell them what is up. Since obviously the engineers that designed it were sleeping like the GM techs.

The rest i agree with and have said prior.

Area47

what makes our cars different than any other boosted application?

rrutter81

the intake's dimensions vs the CFM capability of our tiny roots heaton.

Area47

nevermind.......

Pully Police

rutter, You have the answer right here - the light bulbs should be going off in your head right now...

Omega_5

Do you even read the stuff you post?

Why are you dragging our intake into this?... Yes it's a restriction, but that's a whole different discussion.

Right now, we are comparing a common closed system to itself, when simply changing the compressor. Meaning the same piping, intercooler, intake, motor (in it's entire) and exhaust system... with a different compressor.

Pully Police

Rutter, think about what Omega is saying:

Identical Engines, piping, Intercooler, atmospheric conditions, etc, etc. The ONLY thing that we change is replacing the supercharger / turbo with a larger unit and run it at the same PSI as the orginal unit. So....with the larger compressor running at the same PSI as the original compressor, what happens to the CFM of the system? And more importantly, WHY?

rrutter81

ok kids,

time for 3rd grade science.

Children lets do an experiment. Yes, you too can follow along at home and do this. We are going to explain to all these "math and engineering" whiz-kids what CFM, PSI, and why porting doesnt exist.

materials needed:
balloon
needle
scissors

ok before you blow the balloon up.... poke a needle sized hole in to that balloon. Dont blow it up BEFORE poking it (i have to explain this since 11+ pages and people cant grasp it)

now. Blow that balloon up and watch it leak air ever so slowly.

the air from your lungs to the balloon is like the eaton supercharger (lungs) in to the intake manifold (balloon). The air that is leaking (needle pin hole) is the proper CFM going to the cylinder.

Notice how little CFM or air comes out. Notice the PSI created from blowing the balloon up (intake)

ooooooo

Now, lets free that intake up and cut a hole where the needle hole is about the size of quarter. Again, blow up the balloon.

Thus creating more CFM (out of the bigger hole) and less PSI (balloon size)

now...

if you can afford another balloon. Lets try what everyone else was talking about.....

Open your mouth as wide as you can and blow that balloon up. Whats this?

can it be?

yup im sure of it. The same amount of PSI and CFM is flowing through the balloon (intake)

Now children, i am done gracing this thread with my intelligence and ridiculing you all on what CFM vs PSI vs Dimensions really means.

special thanks to my after-lunch smoke to come up with this little project

Omega_5

That's a novel experiment.... too bad it does not apply to this situation.

BOOSSTED 06

yuppers.

But if he would read through his little experiment a little more, and think, he would be causing another arguement as well pertaining to the psi side

Omega_5

lol... yeah... considering that the map is on the down side of the intake / intercooler....

rrutter81

proof please, otherwise your just in denial.

Also, this is what happens when you push too much air in to that "balloon" that it can not handle.


https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/show...astic+manifold


Its pretty fricken accurate.

Omega_5

Your talking about pre-cooler pressure build up.... not post cooler (engine side, map side, boost gauge side).
And besides that, your experiment does not explain your standing on why a ported blower doesn't work, all it proves is that an intercooler causes pressure drop, which we all know.

rrutter81

no

that is bull.

Blow that balloon up and put it in the freezer. THAT is intercooler pressure drop when it shrinks to the size of a pea"

BOOSSTED 06

no man your the one talking in circles and trying to use examples that do not pertain.

And putting it in the freezer sould not mimic intercooler pressure drop, that statement would make you the idiot(i was trying to avoid the name calling, but you seem ok with it)

that is not why there is pressure drop through an intercooler.

You need to learn more about the system before you try and preach buddy

rrutter81

i give you real-world examples of what is happening to our cobalts with the experiment. it is pretty damn accurate.

apologies for the name calling. that was out of line.

BOOSSTED 06

its not accurate and then your intercooler statement was even further off as well. Putting a balloon in a frezzer when its full of air and saying it will shrink is like pressure drop through and intercooler is an extremely wrong statement

rrutter81

intercooler 101

oh im sorry, maybe that whole bit about how molecules expand under heat was just b.s.

/sarcasm

read more please

Pully Police

Rutter,

In your experiment, you are assuming that the engine, piping, IC, etc etc are already at their maximum CFM capacity - which they are not.

Putting the balloon in the freezer does give you PSI drop - but it is due to the decrease in air temp causing the density to increase which results in a volume decrease.

rrutter81

my experiment is STRICTLY the intake.....

did you create 1 PSI?

then yes, it is at maximum. Please try again.

NEXT!