blacksssc06

ok i see well if that the case maybe zzp should work on a intake manfoild for our cars i vote 10x for that we need it ours is to restrictive i dont know just a idea zzp

djt81185

Id like more specific details on this boost references setup on the twincharged car... from what I seen of that car I dont see any provisions for boost reference. Tho there is a lot of vacuum hoses going everywhere. Im interested in the removal of the old reg and installation of new one, the new filter you installed when replacing the old setup, and how you specifically boost referenced it with closed loop control.

Also I did address your bernoulli concerns in the turbo manifold thread and am eagerly awaiting a reply.

ShortStack

I just noticed that too..


YAY for first post deleted!!

Nice to know you cant expose vendors for who they are.

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

We'll have a write up and diagrams on the site shortly. I think you'll be impressed by the simple, creative solution.

I have heard about 'vacuum hoses going everywhere' multiple times but the install looks very clean to me

I'm not a big fan of deletings posts but I don't control this message board. There was a post on c.com with someone ripping on ZZP about our stage 5 kit blowing up everyone's car. Turns out we don't even sell a stage 5 kit and it was another vendor. The post being left gave us a chance to set the record straight. There was another about a guy who got screwed buying our race transmission. Same deal, turned out he was running our competitor's trans but this Cobalt guy was for some reason hell bent on blaming ZZP. Confused and spreading it, we were able to address the acusation and correct him. I don't know what you posted but I would guess it to be of similar nature and if anyone has 'something they heard' about ZZP that they are concerned with, I would urge you to email it and discuss.

djt81185

Esp around the evap area...or lack there of...if im seeing correctly the lack of the solenoid

Or you are using the evap system tank line as a pressure carrying line to something near the tank of the car

ShortStack

No zoomer.. i understand slander like that "stage 5 kit from zzp" hurts a company without an actual basis.

I was stating about how i felt you guys calling us uneducated... And really, im over it, so its no big deal to me anymore..

I think i maybe just used the word "arrogant ass" too many times

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

THis is an "If the shoe fits" comment. Clearly if you understand what is being spoken, then my words are not directed towards you. If you don't then they are. I can't go through and list every forum members name and call them educated or uneducated. I believe it was a comment in reference to the full length return style fuel system and people believing it offered better fueling to the car at the same fuel pressure as the short loop return system.

Matt M

In your pic, I see a minimum of 2 vacuum hoses that we did not install here. Consequently, those are the two that stand out as sloppy. One is clear vinyl hose running to the wastegate and the other is black silicone hose with a check valve or fitting in line and the hose loops around aimlessly. Once again, these are the two hoses that stick out like a sore thumb and I can honestly say that we did not install them here.

ShortStack

Okay... i guess im trying to have a one on one with you now, because ive always been a very unbiased person.

It just always seems that when a vendor or a customer states something you see unfit as true, you obviously try and state your point...

What the whole thing is though, is that there are WAYY more people who say the same thing and agree upon each other than there who are agreeing with you, which so far i havent really seen one other than your employees.

This just looks VERY strange from incoming customer and/or new forumer who doesnt have ANY IDEA who you are. I didnt know who you guys were till a few months after getting my cobalt...

What customers see is this very forthcoming (overly aggressive, from a customers POV) company who is trying to make their point with information that NO OTHER CUSTOMER or even Forum Senior can up.

And they next that customer does after being flamed for not searching, is type in your name in the search tool...

Whats gonna come up next?

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

You may feel this way but it was not the intention of my post. I got in a thread where there was someone making an untrue statement about the ZZP manifold. I think if you built a product and someone was making a statement to the negative that was clearly untrue, you would clarify, right?

Then we got onto the full length return system and it became clear and members did not understand the mechanics and the reason that the OTT kit enabled a lower duty cycle. People even cited the dyno numbers as proof without knowing that it was only the increased fuel pressure giving the gains. So as people were flaming me for disagreeing?? I pointed to some physics and ask people to google. They did not and instead kept arguing points clearly demonstrating that they don't understand what we're talking about. Case in point is someone saying our numbers don't match another sites on Walbro flow. So then we have to explain that you cannot compare numbers from one site to another without knowing the unit of measure. This is then really annoying because not only did the poster say they didn't match, they called us out as if we were lying. So now ZZP is in a position where someone who doesn't understand junior high math is calling us out. I point this out and I'm hearing "your an ass, I don't need to know how it works". And the chaos insues. It's mind numbing.

Matt M

You are right in that it comes across as over-aggressive, but try to look at it from another angle. When I started posting on this forum, I was instantly attacked with crazy claims of us screwing over customers:
Examples:
Claims of our stage 5 kits blowing up motors, when it is Intense that sells stage 5 kits.
Claims of 3 people from Alabama and Florida that we ripped off.
Customer #1 had a full ZZP build, yet his car was not running right so it was stated that it was our fault. After he sold his car, it ended up back in our shop for repair and the issues were both with factory parts that we don't even sell.
Customer #2 supposedly had trans failure related to ZZP adding additives to his trans fluid. You can easily find two instances where he changed the fluid and filter months and even years before the trans failed. He even had coolant in his trans at one point!(not his fault)
Customer #3 was reported to have a ZZP trans that failed after 1 or 2 trips to the track, but after investigation, I found that he was actually running an Intense trans.

That was 4 cases of completely bogus information being used to slam ZZP. Unfortunately, when we defend ourselves by pointing out the incorrect information, crapfests inevitably ensue.

ShortStack

I understands the d-bags that called you liars and all that such would just boggle your mind...

Going back to the uneducated point for a sec, i just want you to know its not about calling me uneducated (cause i know i am lost at some things) but the point that you would make a generalization of that towards your entire clientele. Just makes you look like the bad guy. (i am done with that subject now it really doesnt matter anymore lol)

You have to realize that the people that everyone listens to are against you and your facts. I think about 7 pages ago in that other thread you should have said. Okay, well, heres what WE can do you for. Leave it at that, come back in a week with some dyno sheets proving or disproving your point.
Show us your 1/3 as expensive whichimajig (make sure you add on your profit to that number, please) lowers the idcs the same as otts kit.

Josh@ottp

iTrader: (4)

That person who "can't understand junior high math" is me. And all I was saying is that your info was incomplete. There was no voltage listed or any unit of measurement. So why don't you post up the walbro numbers in here with all of the info so we can all understand what your test proved.

06blackg85ss

iTrader: (1)

speaking of which, it's still been months, and not a single one of my posts on the twincharge have been answered

djt81185

That clear line would have had to been there reguardless since its a wastegate control line. That front line i have no idea. So even if the rear line was black...I still rest my case.

I addressed your physics issues in this post:

https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/show...&postcount=128

Matt M

The fact that there needs to be a line there does not mean that we installed it. We ran quality silicone tubing throughout. Someone added more components and changed out one of the lines with some vinyl hose.

The test was done to find out which pumps flowed the best at 60 psi and then again at 80psi. The results are easy to understand and allow you to make an educated decision as to which pump will work better in certain applications. I'm not sure what you are looking for here.

I don't know of any questions that you asked. You can send me an email (stattama@aol.com) and I will see if I can answer your questions.

06blackg85ss

iTrader: (1)

well the only reason I see to run a line to the top of the wastegate (the vent) is if you are running a electronic boost controller where you are trying to limit boost in different gears. Other than that, it should be open to the atmosphere.

just look back in the turbo mani thread, should be on the 1st or 2nd page.

Josh@ottp

iTrader: (4)

I am looking for what unit of measurement the flow numbers are listed in.

Matt M

Different mechanical boost controllers have different methods of operation. Some simply interupt the boost signal to the bottom of the wastegate until the boost setting is reached. Hallmans are popular and use this method.

Another way to adjust boost is to use a pressure control regulator. Turbonetics sells this type of boost controller. The design is quite simple in that it allows you to send a certain amount of boost to the top of the wastegate. This boost pressure is added to the spring pressure and raises the overall boost level by the amount of pressure sent to the top of the wastegate. In other words, if you have a 10psi spring and you have a regulator sending 5 psi to the top of the gate and actual boost pressure sent to the bottom of the wastegate, it will take 15psi to open the wastegate valve. Once you picture in your head what it's doing, you'll see that its a very simple concept.

blacksssc06

so never got a answer what about R&D a intake manfoild for our cars

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

We understand this and your question itself is meaningless for the sake of our discussion. The fact that you would ask it shows that you either a. don't undertand what we're talking about or b. are trying to prove us wrong in some fashion.

I think a lot of you have a drastic misconception of the company ZZPerformance. We are large and affiliated with many vendors and manufactures. We are frequently commissioned by other companies to either test their parts or verify their work. When Eaton has something cool, they normally send it to us and ask what we think and if we'll run the #'s. Eaton is a large company on a global scale, perhaps you've heard of them? Granted, they have their own test equipment much more sophisticated than ours but the fact that we are an authorized dealer and they like our facilities gives us a little bump in credibility.

Currently we're working on a project testing Parker check valves for an oil water separator that goes to a V12 engine used by the military. They asked for specs at one and a half inches of water and we have to label each valve. That's it. That's our entire involvement.

ZZP is the standard. We do this type of work for other companies and for ourselves as needed. I'm not going to have our work challenged because you went to a rinky dink web site with two guys in a pole barn and a project car testing something. Our facilities and personel are professionals and it's annoying to have you asking a question with absolutely no relevance.


Because the users on this forum are new to the scene of modding and haven't been involved in high performance enough to understand complex mathmatics related to flow, our flow numbers are simple. They are accurate for a basis of comparison which is all you need and tested at one voltage (real world) and two pressures. This is all the data we needed. If we wanted to, we could test at various voltages and fuel pressures and make complex diagrams along with explanations of what's going on but it would further confuse the audience. People are already asking why flow changes with pressure and asking about voltages and saying 'see, the walbro flows more at 60psi'. If we did get overly complex it would serve no purpose, waste time and money and confuse people to the point of just shutting down and ignoring the entire post. We're providing information that cost us money. We're giving it out for free to help people mod their cars and save money by not buying parts they don't need. I hope it's appreciated by some members.

ShortStack

ZZP will never do that because they dont see any problem with the one that comes with our cars.

CobaltSSRacer1980

That is OTTP for you. 2 guys (brothers) in a garage (at their parents home?)

Shouldnt this be about members and the vendor(ZZP), not OTTP trying to make themselves look better?

Just think it would be better without another vendor putting their comments out there, causing conflicts. I think this is in the rules?

Josh@ottp

iTrader: (4)

Go ahead and call me names and make fun of me, and brag about your business and accomplishments all you want. The fact of the matter is that you called our product out and posted half assed info about fuel pumps and systems. Then I was comparing your data to other respected companies and you just want to call names and tell me I don't know how to compare things and you still won't post up the rest of the data. Instead you would rather think that the community and I don't know a damn thing and that you and your company know it all.

Aaron at TTR^^^^^ I know that is you. The IP adress is a funny thing. And you do business out of your home just like I do. The only difference is I don't hide it.

Matt M

We use our own graduated units for quick accurate testing with repeatability. In our tests, the Cobalt SS pump outflowed the Walbro 340 by 9% at 80psi. I hope you realize that it would still be 9% more if the units are lbs/hr, liters/hour, gallons/hour, grams/second, CC/minute, coffee mugs/afternoon, or ponds/year.