Timing Chain Rattle & Hesitation
01-10-2009, 10:57 AM
#26
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search it, they had the wrong part randomly put on the assembly line during production- just our luck
01-10-2009, 06:15 PM
#27
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Don't get me started on the warranty deal. I'm highly pissed at GM because of that, but that's a story for another time.
Ok, here it is.
The required wrench/socket size is 32mm, 1-1/4" should do in a pinch. You may need a breaker bar to break the original loose, just make sure you're turnin' it the right way. First things first, after you get your new tensioner, make sure it came with a gasket/washer. This should be included and already installed on it passed the threads, but you never know when an assembly line is gonna screw somethin' up.
The first pic is one of the tensioner itself just to let you know what you're dealing with...
The second pic here is just a wide angle pic from the accessory end (passenger side) of the engine to give you an idea of where to start looking, just follow the yellow arrow....
The thrid pic is a little closer for a little better idea of the location. Again, this is the accessory end (passenger side) of the engine.
The fourth image here is a close up of the hex head of the tensioner. Throw the wrench or socket to it, break it loose and then it should be possible to finish removal with just your fingers.
Once removed, simply thread the new tensioner in and tighten with a wrench/ratchet. Don't over-tighten the tensioner, but it does need to be tight enough that it won't vibrate loose. Given the amount of space available, you probably won't be able to over tighten it anyway, so don't be afraid to put a little ass into it. Again, before installation, make sure that the washer/gasket is installed on the new tensioner and that the old one came off with the old tensioner as double gaskets with certainly cause an oil leak.
Hope this is helpful to all of you.
Any more questions, just ask.
Ok, here it is.
The required wrench/socket size is 32mm, 1-1/4" should do in a pinch. You may need a breaker bar to break the original loose, just make sure you're turnin' it the right way. First things first, after you get your new tensioner, make sure it came with a gasket/washer. This should be included and already installed on it passed the threads, but you never know when an assembly line is gonna screw somethin' up. The first pic is one of the tensioner itself just to let you know what you're dealing with...
The second pic here is just a wide angle pic from the accessory end (passenger side) of the engine to give you an idea of where to start looking, just follow the yellow arrow....
The thrid pic is a little closer for a little better idea of the location. Again, this is the accessory end (passenger side) of the engine.
The fourth image here is a close up of the hex head of the tensioner. Throw the wrench or socket to it, break it loose and then it should be possible to finish removal with just your fingers.
Once removed, simply thread the new tensioner in and tighten with a wrench/ratchet. Don't over-tighten the tensioner, but it does need to be tight enough that it won't vibrate loose. Given the amount of space available, you probably won't be able to over tighten it anyway, so don't be afraid to put a little ass into it. Again, before installation, make sure that the washer/gasket is installed on the new tensioner and that the old one came off with the old tensioner as double gaskets with certainly cause an oil leak.
Hope this is helpful to all of you.
Any more questions, just ask.
Last edited by Whiney 2.0; 01-10-2009 at 06:35 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
01-10-2009, 06:53 PM
#28
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Whiney , i had my dealer order me one cause mine is the older style and it does make some noise at startup . The question i have is .....How do you know the the chain is ridding in the craddle at the end of the tensioner without taking off the valve cover?
Or have i over thought this and it's a simple removal /installation? thanks.
EDIT
Here are the instructions from dealer world , this is what scared me off.....releasing of the timming chain tensioner after it is installed.
The timing chain tensioner is released by compressing it 2 mm (0.079 in) which will release the locking mechanism in the ratchet. To release the timing chain tensioner, use a suitable tool with a rubber tip on the end. Feed the tool down through the cam drive chest to rest on the cam chain. Then give a sharp jolt diagonally downwards to release the tensioner.
If the timing chain tensioner is not in the compressed state, perform the following steps:
17.1. Remove the piston assembly from the body of the timing chain tensioner by pulling it out.
17.2. Install the J 45027-2 (2) into a vise.
17.3. Install the notch end of the piston assembly into the J 45027-2 (2).
17.4. Using the J 45027-1 (1), turn the ratchet cylinder into the piston.
Inspect the bore of the tensioner body for dirt, debris, and damage. If any damage appears, replace the tensioner. Clean dirt or debris out with a lint free cloth.
Install the compressed piston assembly back into the timing chain tensioner body until it stops at the bottom of the bore. Do not compress the piston assembly against the bottom of the bore. If the piston assembly is compressed against the bottom of the bore, it will activate the tensioner, which will then need to be reset again.
At this point the tensioner should measure approximately 72 mm (2.83 in) (a) from end to end. If the tensioner does not read 72 mm (2.83 in) (a) from end to end repeat steps 17.1 and 17.4.
Inspect to ensure all dirt and debris is removed from the timing chain tensioner threaded hole in the cylinder head.
Important: Make sure the timing chain tensioner seal is centered throughout the torque procedure to eliminate the possibility of an oil leak.
Install the new timing chain tensioner assembly.
Tighten
Tighten the timing chain tensioner to 75 Nˇm (55 lb ft).
The timing chain tensioner is released by compressing it 2 mm (0.079 in) which will release the locking mechanism in the ratchet. To release the timing chain tensioner, use a suitable tool with a rubber tip on the end. Feed the tool down through the cam drive chest to rest on the cam chain. Then give a sharp jolt diagonally downwards to release the tensioner.
Or have i over thought this and it's a simple removal /installation? thanks.
EDIT
Here are the instructions from dealer world , this is what scared me off.....releasing of the timming chain tensioner after it is installed.
The timing chain tensioner is released by compressing it 2 mm (0.079 in) which will release the locking mechanism in the ratchet. To release the timing chain tensioner, use a suitable tool with a rubber tip on the end. Feed the tool down through the cam drive chest to rest on the cam chain. Then give a sharp jolt diagonally downwards to release the tensioner.
If the timing chain tensioner is not in the compressed state, perform the following steps:
17.1. Remove the piston assembly from the body of the timing chain tensioner by pulling it out.
17.2. Install the J 45027-2 (2) into a vise.
17.3. Install the notch end of the piston assembly into the J 45027-2 (2).
17.4. Using the J 45027-1 (1), turn the ratchet cylinder into the piston.
Inspect the bore of the tensioner body for dirt, debris, and damage. If any damage appears, replace the tensioner. Clean dirt or debris out with a lint free cloth.
Install the compressed piston assembly back into the timing chain tensioner body until it stops at the bottom of the bore. Do not compress the piston assembly against the bottom of the bore. If the piston assembly is compressed against the bottom of the bore, it will activate the tensioner, which will then need to be reset again.
At this point the tensioner should measure approximately 72 mm (2.83 in) (a) from end to end. If the tensioner does not read 72 mm (2.83 in) (a) from end to end repeat steps 17.1 and 17.4.
Inspect to ensure all dirt and debris is removed from the timing chain tensioner threaded hole in the cylinder head.
Important: Make sure the timing chain tensioner seal is centered throughout the torque procedure to eliminate the possibility of an oil leak.
Install the new timing chain tensioner assembly.
Tighten
Tighten the timing chain tensioner to 75 Nˇm (55 lb ft).
The timing chain tensioner is released by compressing it 2 mm (0.079 in) which will release the locking mechanism in the ratchet. To release the timing chain tensioner, use a suitable tool with a rubber tip on the end. Feed the tool down through the cam drive chest to rest on the cam chain. Then give a sharp jolt diagonally downwards to release the tensioner.
01-10-2009, 07:47 PM
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the tensioner should release on its own once you begin tightening it.
also i've been told by others that a couple taps on the tensioner with a rubber mallet once screwed in will release the tensioner as well.
also i've been told by others that a couple taps on the tensioner with a rubber mallet once screwed in will release the tensioner as well.
01-10-2009, 11:07 PM
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You've over-thought it. The cradle in the end of the piston rides on a ridge on the chain guide between the tensioner and the chain. The way it's designed it'll self center on the guide when you start the engine after installation and oil pressure gets to it. Note: before installation, the plunger in the new tensioner will move in and out and rotate very freely. It's supposed to do that. When they get tight is when they start causin' problems. They can eventually stick to the point that the oil pressure won't extend the plunger to take up slack in the timing chain. Thus you get a rattle from a loose chain. I'd say the instructions you've got there are certainly for a different type of tensioner all together, or for the disassembly of the tensioner itself. You don't have to worry about any of that. Just follow the directions obove and you won't have a problem.
flash13, on mine, I heard it the most while driving along side of a bank or buildings or barriers etc. Sometimes you would hear it at idle and if you popped the hood and listened closely, it sounded like it was coming more from the timing end of the engine instead of up top. It also seemed louder during deceleration than acceleration.
If anyone is experiencing a rattle at start-up that clears up almost instantly, I would try dumping a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil in at the next oil change because it could possibly just be clogged/sticky tappets. Also try to listen and make sure which area of the engine the noise is coming from.
flash13, on mine, I heard it the most while driving along side of a bank or buildings or barriers etc. Sometimes you would hear it at idle and if you popped the hood and listened closely, it sounded like it was coming more from the timing end of the engine instead of up top. It also seemed louder during deceleration than acceleration.
If anyone is experiencing a rattle at start-up that clears up almost instantly, I would try dumping a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil in at the next oil change because it could possibly just be clogged/sticky tappets. Also try to listen and make sure which area of the engine the noise is coming from.
Last edited by Whiney 2.0; 01-10-2009 at 11:07 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
01-10-2009, 11:15 PM
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Depends on how you look at it. It was a steady problem, but the noise would vary depending on temperature, whether you were accelerating or decelerating, idle or higher rpm. So the noise wasn't really steady, but it was always there if you listened closely.
01-11-2009, 03:03 AM
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. I'd say the instructions you've got there are certainly for a different type of tensioner all together, or for the disassembly of the tensioner itself. You don't have to worry about any of that. Just follow the directions obove and you won't have a problem.
flash13, on mine, I heard it the most while driving along side of a bank or buildings or barriers etc. Sometimes you would hear it at idle and if you popped the hood and listened closely, it sounded like it was coming more from the timing end of the engine instead of up top. It also seemed louder during deceleration than acceleration.
flash13, on mine, I heard it the most while driving along side of a bank or buildings or barriers etc. Sometimes you would hear it at idle and if you popped the hood and listened closely, it sounded like it was coming more from the timing end of the engine instead of up top. It also seemed louder during deceleration than acceleration.
The instructions i posted are for the same timing chain tensioner , the pictures don't show up when i copy from dealerworld but it's the exact same one you replaced. Maybe GM didn't update the instructions when they change the tensioner design and thats why it's throwing me off? lol who knows hehe
I notice mine when in a drive thru and near any barriers on the road , i thought it was the throw out bearing at first, it makes the same type noise . Thanks for the help.
01-11-2009, 01:12 PM
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Yup yup. I'm not sure what you might have to do to re-install the factory tensionor. I wouldn't think it would be that complicated. But I do know that when you install the new one, the plunger is gonna move freely and you don't have to worry a bout unlocking anything. Just thread it in and the oil takes care of the rest.
01-11-2009, 02:27 PM
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same thing happened when i had my 07 ss/sc timing chain/tensioner went twice and the 2nd time my cams were gone. so i traded it in and bought the gti.
and i only had 14k on it at the time it went the first time.
and i only had 14k on it at the time it went the first time.
01-11-2009, 03:49 PM
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Hey all, I have an ariel atom with the 2.0LSJ motor, with about 6,000 miles...anywho the car was sitting for about a month while the exhaust was being re-coated, and upon startup I noticed a loud knocking/tapping noise coming from the side of the motor where the belts are, and definitely seems louder on top.
Anyways I used my cell phone to record the sound it makes there's video too but that was not my intent. Please have a listen and see if you think my problem is what you're describing...$50 repair would be frickin awesome if that's all it was.
Anyways I used my cell phone to record the sound it makes there's video too but that was not my intent. Please have a listen and see if you think my problem is what you're describing...$50 repair would be frickin awesome if that's all it was.
Last edited by silver; 01-11-2009 at 04:07 PM.
01-11-2009, 06:47 PM
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Flash 13, I wouldn't rule it out based on mileage. Mine was in the neighborhood of 20k when I first noticed the noise coming on.
Silver, I'm leaning toward tappet noise on your Atom Bomb there. Doesn't seem that the noise is concentrated in the timing area in the video. Try dumping a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil in it and run it for a bit. That may clear it up. If not you may have to pull the valve cover and check for collapsed/stuck tappets and replace them. If the tensioner was the problem the noise would be more concentrated at the end of the engine where your video started out and would be more of a constant rattle than a tapping noise. How long did it sit? It could be a combination of both the tappets and the chain, kind of hard to pick out any chain noise in the video though. Try the Mystery Oil and get back with me. It's a very useful product, it can be used in either conventional or synthetic oils, and is available at most auto parts stores and wal-mart. It's in a red quart bottle unless they've changed it.
Silver, I'm leaning toward tappet noise on your Atom Bomb there. Doesn't seem that the noise is concentrated in the timing area in the video. Try dumping a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil in it and run it for a bit. That may clear it up. If not you may have to pull the valve cover and check for collapsed/stuck tappets and replace them. If the tensioner was the problem the noise would be more concentrated at the end of the engine where your video started out and would be more of a constant rattle than a tapping noise. How long did it sit? It could be a combination of both the tappets and the chain, kind of hard to pick out any chain noise in the video though. Try the Mystery Oil and get back with me. It's a very useful product, it can be used in either conventional or synthetic oils, and is available at most auto parts stores and wal-mart. It's in a red quart bottle unless they've changed it.
01-11-2009, 07:37 PM
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Whiney....well turns out after posting the video on the atom forum, one of them suggested to check my header....which of course makes sense since I just reinstalled it from being re-coated....well the guy who built the exhaust didn't tell me how much to torque down the header bolts too so I just did it hand tight with a socket wrench.....that was the problem....after torquing them down to 45 ft/lbs, the rattling is completely gone!!
I took this video after just torquing a few of the nuts down a little more and before I got out the torque wrench, and the knocking sound is significantly reduced.
after I took this video is when I torqued down all the nuts to 45 ft/lbs and now there is absolutely no noise.
I took this video after just torquing a few of the nuts down a little more and before I got out the torque wrench, and the knocking sound is significantly reduced.
after I took this video is when I torqued down all the nuts to 45 ft/lbs and now there is absolutely no noise.
01-11-2009, 10:59 PM
#45
Thank you Whiney for the how 2!
I'm sure a bunch of us will be doing this!
Could someone sticky that post in the how to section for a quick find for other people wanting/needing to do this?
Thanks again, it is much appreciated!
I'm sure a bunch of us will be doing this!
Could someone sticky that post in the how to section for a quick find for other people wanting/needing to do this?
Thanks again, it is much appreciated!
01-11-2009, 11:05 PM
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Well my engine has started to sound different upon startup recently. I would rather spend the money now and not worry about it then regret it down the road.
01-12-2009, 01:32 AM
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Can't hurt to go ahead and try it. But, if it's only at start-up it could also be tappets. If you do the new tensioner and it doesn't seem to help it, try dumping a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil in it. It may be tappet noise you're hearing. Next time you're driving next to a barrier or another vehicle etc. (especially on the passenger side) listen for it. But yeah, if you've still got the factory tensioner, it definatately wouldn't hurt to go ahead and change it out because it seems with these cars you're destined to have problems with it eventually.
01-12-2009, 07:08 PM
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If Marvel doesn't fix it you'll have to buy a set of new tappets. Not sure how much they cost for these engines, nor if they can be installed without removing the cams. I can look it up at some point in time though.
01-13-2009, 08:14 AM
#50
Has anyone tried the one from autozone?
Is it the same?
About this product:
Cloyes / Timing Chain Tensioner
Part Number: 9-5374
Weight: 0.55 lbs.
Warranty: 3 MO
Pricing:
$24.99
Is it the same?
About this product:
Cloyes / Timing Chain Tensioner
Part Number: 9-5374
Weight: 0.55 lbs.
Warranty: 3 MO
Pricing:
$24.99