Update: victory_red_SS project
06-21-2006, 10:19 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by JCswoosher2
do pistons alone on a car would be capable of how big of a gain? 30whp?
06-21-2006, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by JCswoosher2
do pistons alone on a car would be capable of how big of a gain? 30whp?
I can say for sure but GM says pistons 10.0:1, cams and timing gears, valve spings will net 300+
Just a thought - 245 is GM rated stage II HP from 205. People are dynoing 260. If you did the pistons with stage 2 and a 2.8 pulley you goto be close. HP TUNER and you be able to get there.
I am trying to decide which way I go cause retail stage 2 pluse a pulley VS Hp Tuner set + injectors + pulley is about the same price. I dont know which will yield more power but the later can go easier with the car as it evolves.
06-21-2006, 10:31 PM
#54
Originally Posted by ssnipes
I can say for sure but GM says pistons 10.0:1, cams and timing gears, valve spings will net 300+
Just a thought - 245 is GM rated stage II HP from 205. People are dynoing 260. If you did the pistons with stage 2 and a 2.8 pulley you goto be close. HP TUNER and you be able to get there.
I am trying to decide which way I go cause retail stage 2 pluse a pulley VS Hp Tuner set + injectors + pulley is about the same price. I dont know which will yield more power but the later can go easier with the car as it evolves.
Just a thought - 245 is GM rated stage II HP from 205. People are dynoing 260. If you did the pistons with stage 2 and a 2.8 pulley you goto be close. HP TUNER and you be able to get there.
I am trying to decide which way I go cause retail stage 2 pluse a pulley VS Hp Tuner set + injectors + pulley is about the same price. I dont know which will yield more power but the later can go easier with the car as it evolves.
I just found out that GM will build you a 400hp 2.2l for $5,000.
So if you get a base model $15,000 and the GM engine build. You spent about $20,000 and it's turn-key straight from GM. That's less than I paid for my ss/sc. Even if you went $22,000 that's cheap.
I feel violated.
06-21-2006, 10:42 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by CTCOBALTSSS
Who is dynoing 260 with stage 2? I'm getting 242whp. Click on DYNO in my sig. 300 may be possible with the mods you listed.
I just found out that GM will build you a 400hp 2.2l for $5,000.
So if you get a base model $15,000 and the GM engine build. You spent about $20,000 and it's turn-key straight from GM. That's less than I paid for my ss/sc. Even if you went $22,000 that's cheap.
I feel violated.
I just found out that GM will build you a 400hp 2.2l for $5,000.
So if you get a base model $15,000 and the GM engine build. You spent about $20,000 and it's turn-key straight from GM. That's less than I paid for my ss/sc. Even if you went $22,000 that's cheap.
I feel violated.
dont feel to violated
06-21-2006, 10:43 PM
#57
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Originally Posted by CTCOBALTSSS
Who is dynoing 260 with stage 2? I'm getting 242whp. Click on DYNO in my sig. 300 may be possible with the mods you listed.
I just found out that GM will build you a 400hp 2.2l for $5,000.
So if you get a base model $15,000 and the GM engine build. You spent about $20,000 and it's turn-key straight from GM. That's less than I paid for my ss/sc. Even if you went $22,000 that's cheap.
I feel violated.
I just found out that GM will build you a 400hp 2.2l for $5,000.
So if you get a base model $15,000 and the GM engine build. You spent about $20,000 and it's turn-key straight from GM. That's less than I paid for my ss/sc. Even if you went $22,000 that's cheap.
I feel violated.
WHO WHAT WHERE WHEN ?!?!
Seriously, details please, I would kill for that.
- Solo
06-21-2006, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by cobaltR
Using VW as an example is not the same in this application. VW did not build that car for the purpose of making huge power and for people to race. Is this setup a waste of money??....possibly...know one really knows....no one has got a twin setup on their car running. If someone can get this to work..it'll be awesome and I wish victory red the best. I can grasp the power to be made with this system and does sound good and looks good on paper....but it is complicated and will cost alot of money. Tuning is obviously gonna to be the biggest issue...it already is for all cobalt owners, but now we're talking about trying to tune two FI systems on one car.
- Solo
06-21-2006, 10:48 PM
#59
Originally Posted by SoloSK71
WHO WHAT WHERE WHEN ?!?!
Seriously, details please, I would kill for that.
- Solo
Seriously, details please, I would kill for that.
- Solo
The phone number. 800-441-5150
P.S. I don't feel very violated just a little. This turn-key car dosen't have much for goodies it's just all motor.
06-21-2006, 10:59 PM
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I just want people to start doing heads, cams, pistons so i can see how much it will cost and what will happen to the motors and the power gains they get
06-21-2006, 11:06 PM
#61
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Originally Posted by CTCOBALTSSS
I'm dead serious. Call Crate Engine Depot. You can buy the car like that but like ssnipes says you do have extra goodies with the ss/sc. You can get a turn key 400hp 2.2l base model Cobalt for about $20-$22,000.
The phone number. 800-441-5150
P.S. I don't feel very violated just a little. This turn-key car dosen't have much for goodies it's just all motor.
The phone number. 800-441-5150
P.S. I don't feel very violated just a little. This turn-key car dosen't have much for goodies it's just all motor.
06-21-2006, 11:10 PM
#62
Originally Posted by ssnipes
Is that not just the motor for $5000. you have to get the old one to them as a core and put the new one in. so you either do it yourself or pay. there goes another grand to 1500.
Good call on the price. $1,000-$2,000 for the laybor.
Hey man $22,000 for a 400hp Cobalt......Nasty! Cosmetics come later I guess.
Either way that's one cheap ass 400hp car.
06-21-2006, 11:19 PM
#64
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Originally Posted by CTCOBALTSSS
Who is dynoing 260 with stage 2? I'm getting 242whp. Click on DYNO in my sig. 300 may be possible with the mods you listed.
I just found out that GM will build you a 400hp 2.2l for $5,000.
So if you get a base model $15,000 and the GM engine build. You spent about $20,000 and it's turn-key straight from GM. That's less than I paid for my ss/sc. Even if you went $22,000 that's cheap.
I feel violated.
I just found out that GM will build you a 400hp 2.2l for $5,000.
So if you get a base model $15,000 and the GM engine build. You spent about $20,000 and it's turn-key straight from GM. That's less than I paid for my ss/sc. Even if you went $22,000 that's cheap.
I feel violated.
but in your case you are doing 242 and with say 15% drivetrain loss you are conservatively pushing close to 270 to 280. not bad. pistons would get you 300HP especially if you were to push rev limit to 7500 with valve spring change.
06-22-2006, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by CTCOBALTSSS
It's $20,000 if you do it yourself. That's why I was saying $20-$22,000
Good call on the price. $1,000-$2,000 for the laybor.
Hey man $22,000 for a 400hp Cobalt......Nasty! Cosmetics come later I guess.
Either way that's one cheap ass 400hp car.
Good call on the price. $1,000-$2,000 for the laybor.
Hey man $22,000 for a 400hp Cobalt......Nasty! Cosmetics come later I guess.
Either way that's one cheap ass 400hp car.
Like you said in an earlier post, it is all engine.
Everyone has to keep in mind there are so many other pieces to the puzzle like half- shafts, etc. The bill would eventually be up there.
Not a bad deal though. $5000 for a good to go engine is a great starting point.
06-22-2006, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by cobaltR
Using VW as an example is not the same in this application. VW did not build that car for the purpose of making huge power and for people to race. Is this setup a waste of money??....possibly...know one really knows....no one has got a twin setup on their car running. If someone can get this to work..it'll be awesome and I wish victory red the best. I can grasp the power to be made with this system and does sound good and looks good on paper....but it is complicated and will cost alot of money. Tuning is obviously gonna to be the biggest issue...it already is for all cobalt owners, but now we're talking about trying to tune two FI systems on one car.
06-22-2006, 08:51 AM
#67
Originally Posted by ssnipes
Well maybe I am wrong but with a few other mods they are doing 260whp.
but in your case you are doing 242 and with say 15% drivetrain loss you are conservatively pushing close to 270 to 280. not bad. pistons would get you 300HP especially if you were to push rev limit to 7500 with valve spring change.
but in your case you are doing 242 and with say 15% drivetrain loss you are conservatively pushing close to 270 to 280. not bad. pistons would get you 300HP especially if you were to push rev limit to 7500 with valve spring change.
Originally Posted by Matty
Like you said in an earlier post, it is all engine.
Everyone has to keep in mind there are so many other pieces to the puzzle like half- shafts, etc. The bill would eventually be up there.
Not a bad deal though. $5000 for a good to go engine is a great starting point.
Everyone has to keep in mind there are so many other pieces to the puzzle like half- shafts, etc. The bill would eventually be up there.
Not a bad deal though. $5000 for a good to go engine is a great starting point.
06-22-2006, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by CTCOBALTSSS
Good call. 300 seems right with pistons and a valve spring change. Can't beat the power to price ratio hah?
Yeah all motor. Good track car though. That is a great starting point. I like the toys though.
Yeah all motor. Good track car though. That is a great starting point. I like the toys though.
06-22-2006, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by cobaltR
Using VW as an example is not the same in this application. VW did not build that car for the purpose of making huge power and for people to race. Is this setup a waste of money??....possibly...know one really knows....no one has got a twin setup on their car running. If someone can get this to work..it'll be awesome and I wish victory red the best. I can grasp the power to be made with this system and does sound good and looks good on paper....but it is complicated and will cost alot of money. Tuning is obviously gonna to be the biggest issue...it already is for all cobalt owners, but now we're talking about trying to tune two FI systems on one car.
Keith from Desired customs has a twincharged cobalt (the Hann prototype to be exact), and someone on this forum ' Twincharged ' as a twincharged redline.
it's already been done and working.
I remember keith was putting over 400WHP, and he still required a lot more tuneing, he only got it running so that he was able to show up to the SCN (Sport Compact Night) show in Toronto.
JCswoosher2
I got JBP Stage 2 cams already done. thats my dyno sheet you see on the JBP website.
I gained about 12WHPwith the bypass valve on, about 23WHP with the Bypass mod, and made the same HP as stock a whole 1000RPM sooner. if you look at the dyno you'll see that I lost about 10WHP at 1000RPM but I quickly make more power, and after about 2800RPM I'm start making more power then stock and it quickly keeps building more.
the problem is that the stage 2 cam requires tuneing to get it's full potential.
you need:
larger injectores
HP tuners to disable the boost bypass
and tuning for the cams will probably yeild major gains
06-22-2006, 11:18 AM
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^^^Word, there are quite a few guys who have done it. Actually the first time I ever saw it done was on an import like 6 years ago or so.
And sure a twin screw is better than a roots blower, but even with that you will have to custom fabricate mounting and intakes and everything to get it to work with the 2.0. I think turbo's are easier to fab and install than blowers personally.
There are several turbo manifolds for the 2.2 eco currently available, we may get lucky and find one that fits well. If so, all that would require custom fab would be the charge tubes and the downtube.
Until someone converts to a twin screw blower, and for less than what the twincharge would cost, who's to say it will be more cost effective? I can say that at the same PSI and HP levels, the twincharged care will certainly make more power and TQ sooner and have a much broader area under both curves.
And sure a twin screw is better than a roots blower, but even with that you will have to custom fabricate mounting and intakes and everything to get it to work with the 2.0. I think turbo's are easier to fab and install than blowers personally.
There are several turbo manifolds for the 2.2 eco currently available, we may get lucky and find one that fits well. If so, all that would require custom fab would be the charge tubes and the downtube.
Until someone converts to a twin screw blower, and for less than what the twincharge would cost, who's to say it will be more cost effective? I can say that at the same PSI and HP levels, the twincharged care will certainly make more power and TQ sooner and have a much broader area under both curves.
06-22-2006, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by iso
actually twincharging has been proven effective. go on google an d search for the twincharged mini coopers. there's a kit out for them already, so i'd say it's been proven to work.
06-22-2006, 06:57 PM
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[QUOTE=player_1]what do you mean no one has this done.
Keith from Desired customs has a twincharged cobalt (the Hann prototype to be exact), and someone on this forum ' Twincharged ' as a twincharged redline.
it's already been done and working.
I remember keith was putting over 400WHP, and he still required a lot more tuneing, he only got it running so that he was able to show up to the SCN (Sport Compact Night) show in Toronto.
I meant there isnt a kit that is finished yet for the cobalt. All I'm saying is that in my opinion there isnt a cost effective and reliable twincharged setup available for cars. The mini is one example...but I dont think that if is the best route unless u want to be unique and their is vw coming out..but that was built for better fuel economy and emissions....not to be their new sports car. If twincharging was both cost effective and reliable wouldnt u see more of them around???? how about on a cobra?????? but u dont. I hope hahn or who ever victory ss is using can.....I think that would be great for cobalt community dont u?
Keith from Desired customs has a twincharged cobalt (the Hann prototype to be exact), and someone on this forum ' Twincharged ' as a twincharged redline.
it's already been done and working.
I remember keith was putting over 400WHP, and he still required a lot more tuneing, he only got it running so that he was able to show up to the SCN (Sport Compact Night) show in Toronto.
I meant there isnt a kit that is finished yet for the cobalt. All I'm saying is that in my opinion there isnt a cost effective and reliable twincharged setup available for cars. The mini is one example...but I dont think that if is the best route unless u want to be unique and their is vw coming out..but that was built for better fuel economy and emissions....not to be their new sports car. If twincharging was both cost effective and reliable wouldnt u see more of them around???? how about on a cobra?????? but u dont. I hope hahn or who ever victory ss is using can.....I think that would be great for cobalt community dont u?
06-22-2006, 07:14 PM
#75
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Originally Posted by cobaltR
...
I meant there isnt a kit that is finished yet for the cobalt. All I'm saying is that in my opinion there isnt a cost effective and reliable twincharged setup available for cars. .. I hope hahn or who ever victory ss is using can.....I think that would be great for cobalt community dont u?
I meant there isnt a kit that is finished yet for the cobalt. All I'm saying is that in my opinion there isnt a cost effective and reliable twincharged setup available for cars. .. I hope hahn or who ever victory ss is using can.....I think that would be great for cobalt community dont u?
