What about the M90?
10-29-2005, 10:39 PM
#26
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those supercharger diagrahms dont help...from the looks of my ion...the blower is held onto the manifold with 4 bolts instead of the 6 shown in the pic
Dan
Dan
10-30-2005, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by djt81185
those supercharger diagrahms dont help...from the looks of my ion...the blower is held onto the manifold with 4 bolts instead of the 6 shown in the pic
Dan
Dan
hence the adaptor plate needed.
Actually, tomorrow, Ill take a pic of the Gen 3 SC i have in my back seat so you guys can compare. The Gen 5 and Gen 3 (5th from 04+ Grand Prixs and 3rd from the 97-03) have different bolt patterns.
10-30-2005, 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted by stuffy236
hence the adaptor plate needed.
Actually, tomorrow, Ill take a pic of the Gen 3 SC i have in my back seat so you guys can compare. The Gen 5 and Gen 3 (5th from 04+ Grand Prixs and 3rd from the 97-03) have different bolt patterns.
Actually, tomorrow, Ill take a pic of the Gen 3 SC i have in my back seat so you guys can compare. The Gen 5 and Gen 3 (5th from 04+ Grand Prixs and 3rd from the 97-03) have different bolt patterns.
Dan
10-30-2005, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by VaMP
There's more stuff to replace besides the rods and pistons. We've also got a fuel system to worry about if we push too far past 300HP - also we would need a custom piggy back system = expensive. I seriously think we could get an M90 on our the Cobalt SS with less then $1000. The goal for me is to maintain OE internals, fuel system, computer, with just a supercharger swap.
.
.
Bigger injectors with an S-AFC2 should do the trick.
10-30-2005, 02:26 PM
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Theres alot of different whipples out there. They make a few for sport compacts, so I'm sure that theres one with pretty close dimensions. But ofcourse they would need a adapter plate.
10-30-2005, 07:39 PM
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Up to 14,300 supercharger rpm the M62 is a better choice then the M90. If you need more RPM than that to get the desired boost then it's worth going to the M90 because beyond that limit the heat and power to drive the M62 exceed that of the M90. If you do the math that means anything smaller then a 2.7 inch pulley and you should go to a bigger supercharger.
Don't think that an M90 off just any Buick will do it. You want a 5th generation off only the very newest cars. The older ones will be a step backwards. Don't even think about a 3rd generation unit. Most of these schematics I see posted are actually of the Magnuson Unit which is the Eaton unit sold to the aftermarket. The cases are different although the internals are the same. If you make an adapter plate based on the Magnuson unit it probably won't work.
The Lysholm screw type (Whipple, IHI, Kenne Bell, or whatever brand you want to talk about) is much more effiecent at high boost levels. At 10 psi the difference is minor on a street car. However the Lysholm will cause an increase in fuel consumption because of it's internal compression.
Don't think that an M90 off just any Buick will do it. You want a 5th generation off only the very newest cars. The older ones will be a step backwards. Don't even think about a 3rd generation unit. Most of these schematics I see posted are actually of the Magnuson Unit which is the Eaton unit sold to the aftermarket. The cases are different although the internals are the same. If you make an adapter plate based on the Magnuson unit it probably won't work.
The Lysholm screw type (Whipple, IHI, Kenne Bell, or whatever brand you want to talk about) is much more effiecent at high boost levels. At 10 psi the difference is minor on a street car. However the Lysholm will cause an increase in fuel consumption because of it's internal compression.
10-30-2005, 07:59 PM
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a ported 3rd gen is close to a stock 5th gen. Although, I agree that if youre going to get a m90, a 5th gen is the way to go. However, they are not easy to come by. A used parts provider for Wbodys has a huge waiting list for a 5th gen M90 and he gets a lot of cars.
I dont think a 3rd gen m90 is going to be taking a step back at all. Its still a lot better than the m62 and if you port it later on down the line, it will only get better.
I dont think a 3rd gen m90 is going to be taking a step back at all. Its still a lot better than the m62 and if you port it later on down the line, it will only get better.
10-30-2005, 08:02 PM
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Also, we're not debating the efficiency of Whipple or Kenney Bell - we know they're better, but in order to keep this supercharger swap as low costing as possible, the M90 would be better.
10-30-2005, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Greg
At 10 psi the difference is minor on a street car. .
Twin Screw vs. Roots at 8psi. Even at low rpm the TS kicks the **** out of the roots. 139cid whipple vs. M112 eaton
Vamp is correct. TS are expensive and an M90 swap would be a lot better for those not looking to spend a lot of money
EDIT - You can buy a brand new M90 from zzperformance for 599
10-31-2005, 03:31 AM
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the pully isnt going to line up. i dont think you want to mess around with offsetting the crank pully, seems like nothing but trouble. that plus the hassel an adapter plate would be and this just seems like a bad idea for someone to try out of their garage. id just go with the smaller pully till 300 hp, after that you have to get into the motor so the skys the limit.
10-31-2005, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by n4ggs
the pully isnt going to line up. i dont think you want to mess around with offsetting the crank pully, seems like nothing but trouble. that plus the hassel an adapter plate would be and this just seems like a bad idea for someone to try out of their garage. id just go with the smaller pully till 300 hp, after that you have to get into the motor so the skys the limit.
They make different length snouts for the eaton M90 and TS's.
10-31-2005, 10:21 AM
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When comparing a Roots to a Twin Screw it needs to be an apples to apples comparison, or at least close. A 139 cubic inch supercharger vs a 112 cubic inch is not an apples to apples comparison and is not represenative of the numbers we are dealing with on the Cobalt. An Eaton 112 takes almost twice as much power to drive as the M62 (well over 50 horsepower in the case of the Mustang Cobra) so of course there will be a larger improvement going to the Whipple, especially since the 112 is really too small on the Ford V8 and is operating outside it's most effiecient range. This isn't the case with the Cobalt, the M62 is slightly oversized for a 6500 rpm 2.0.
Do the math and look at real numbers. The Cobalt's M62 draws about 21 horsepower from the crank at redline. At stock boost the Whipple only draws slightly less but will heat up the intercooler more in normall street driving because the bypass valve can't totally shut it off (You can get around this with a on/off clutch like Mercedes uses). The result is at stock boost level the Whipple will probably not be much of an improvement. However at higher boost levels the Twin Screw type really starts to clobber the Roots.
Do the math and look at real numbers. The Cobalt's M62 draws about 21 horsepower from the crank at redline. At stock boost the Whipple only draws slightly less but will heat up the intercooler more in normall street driving because the bypass valve can't totally shut it off (You can get around this with a on/off clutch like Mercedes uses). The result is at stock boost level the Whipple will probably not be much of an improvement. However at higher boost levels the Twin Screw type really starts to clobber the Roots.
10-31-2005, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Greg
When comparing a Roots to a Twin Screw it needs to be an apples to apples comparison, or at least close. A 139 cubic inch supercharger vs a 112 cubic inch is not an apples to apples comparison and is not represenative of the numbers we are dealing with on the Cobalt. An Eaton 112 takes almost twice as much power to drive as the M62 (well over 50 horsepower in the case of the Mustang Cobra) so of course there will be a larger improvement going to the Whipple, especially since the 112 is really too small on the Ford V8 and is operating outside it's most effiecient range. This isn't the case with the Cobalt, the M62 is slightly oversized for a 6500 rpm 2.0.
Do the math and look at real numbers. The Cobalt's M62 draws about 21 horsepower from the crank at redline. At stock boost the Whipple only draws slightly less but will heat up the intercooler more in normall street driving because the bypass valve can't totally shut it off (You can get around this with a on/off clutch like Mercedes uses). The result is at stock boost level the Whipple will probably not be much of an improvement. However at higher boost levels the Twin Screw type really starts to clobber the Roots.
Do the math and look at real numbers. The Cobalt's M62 draws about 21 horsepower from the crank at redline. At stock boost the Whipple only draws slightly less but will heat up the intercooler more in normall street driving because the bypass valve can't totally shut it off (You can get around this with a on/off clutch like Mercedes uses). The result is at stock boost level the Whipple will probably not be much of an improvement. However at higher boost levels the Twin Screw type really starts to clobber the Roots.
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