what would it take to hit 270whp?
05-07-2007, 08:33 PM
#26
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05-07-2007, 08:34 PM
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Yeah. But, with all of those mods combined it would cost just around the same price as a turbo swap. GM performance made 300HP with all of the GM performance bolt ons....and those would be very costly (This included the 10:1 forged aluminum pistons).
05-07-2007, 08:35 PM
#28
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Yeah, right
Because you make PSI by pushing air into a place where it cant flow. You want better flow, not better pressure.
Plus as stated earlier, the m62 makes hella heat, and it sucks HP off the engine because its not as efficient as say, a whipple (i know thats the brand, i had a brain fart) type blower
edit...
twin screw, thats it!
Well investing in cooling here is, say a couple hundred bucks. A blower swap is a major project (right now, hopefully we'll get some kits soon)
Plus as stated earlier, the m62 makes hella heat, and it sucks HP off the engine because its not as efficient as say, a whipple (i know thats the brand, i had a brain fart) type blower
edit...
twin screw, thats it!
Well investing in cooling here is, say a couple hundred bucks. A blower swap is a major project (right now, hopefully we'll get some kits soon)
Well yes and no. Cooling the air will help, but that is not the only level on which our M62s lack efficiency compared to say a turbo. They also do not flow as much CFM. This is why I gave the example of the ability to flow more as well as the air charge density.
Although our roots blowers can build boost extremely quickly, it will not be able to flow as much mass of air into the engine. The main difference here being that the roots blower actually blows air into the intake manifold where it is compressed, and a twin screw let's say, compresses the air inside of itself. This alone makes it more efficient and able to flow more CFM.
Although our roots blowers can build boost extremely quickly, it will not be able to flow as much mass of air into the engine. The main difference here being that the roots blower actually blows air into the intake manifold where it is compressed, and a twin screw let's say, compresses the air inside of itself. This alone makes it more efficient and able to flow more CFM.
05-07-2007, 08:35 PM
#29
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Well, did you see the other thread in this section about swapping to a turbo? For the same price as paying for a setup on the M62 that would make around 270WHP, you could make 300WHP and do it safely on a turbo setup.
As NJHK has said in the thread about returnless fuel systems; we are having to use fuel as a coolant when we take our boost over certain levels (aka levels high enough to make over 250WHP). This is because no matter what cooling modifications we make, even methanol, we end up having to use too large of injectors and too much fuel to do it safely.
As discussed in that same thread, this strains the fuel system, which then deprives cylinders of fuel. At that point you would also need to modify the fuel system to keep up.
As NJHK has said in the thread about returnless fuel systems; we are having to use fuel as a coolant when we take our boost over certain levels (aka levels high enough to make over 250WHP). This is because no matter what cooling modifications we make, even methanol, we end up having to use too large of injectors and too much fuel to do it safely.
As discussed in that same thread, this strains the fuel system, which then deprives cylinders of fuel. At that point you would also need to modify the fuel system to keep up.
now that is something new to me
05-07-2007, 08:36 PM
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According to GM, with a piston swap, cam swap, valve springs, dual pass plate and tuning the rest of our stock rotating assembly and ignition system can take way over 300HP.
05-07-2007, 08:37 PM
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you could get those mods I listed above for $1000 est. Turbo swap would be more than that.
05-07-2007, 08:38 PM
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True, but the power wouldn't be made as safely. This is why there are threads popping up about people blowing cylinder #4....because they are running HP levels in the high 200s without modding the bottom end or making a more efficient setup.
Last edited by Mikey851; 05-07-2007 at 08:41 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
05-07-2007, 08:40 PM
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05-07-2007, 08:41 PM
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05-07-2007, 08:50 PM
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Edit: Don't get me wrong...I love the supercharger setup and I like roots blowers. But, for the guys wanting to safely make large amounts of horsepower something must be changed. Whether it be a larger, more high flowing roots, a twinscrew, a turbo, or headwork, something must be done. We can't just keep going with a smaller pulley and a little cooling mod on top.
05-07-2007, 09:02 PM
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I agree the power could be made safer but the #4 cylinder issues is a fuel delievery problem, not a piston problem. No one knows for sure but I have not heard yet of an LSJ thats popped because pf too much boost or HP. Most to all have been fuel related in one way or another from what I have read.
05-07-2007, 09:09 PM
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it is my understanding that the bottom end is all forged... and also i have found that forged components live at high rpm's, therefore i feel as though you would have no problem with the bottom end if all is tuned properly...
05-07-2007, 09:16 PM
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I agree the power could be made safer but the #4 cylinder issues is a fuel delievery problem, not a piston problem. No one knows for sure but I have not heard yet of an LSJ thats popped because pf too much boost or HP. Most to all have been fuel related in one way or another from what I have read.
Well....I'm not trying to correct you...and you're right it is a fuel delivery problem, but the problem occurs when alot of fuel is in demand. This happens because the roots blower setup, with it's heat it produces especially at higher boost levels, demands alot of fuel. It's not that the bottom end can't take the boost, it's that it can't take the detonation caused by either too much heat or when compensated for by making the mixture rich the fuel system cannot keep up and one of the cylinders goes lean and detonates.
The whole bottom end is forged except for the pistons which are hypereutectic. This is the weak point; this is why earlier in the thread I said if we swapped in forged aluminum pistons our bottom end is good for well over 300hp.
Last edited by Mikey851; 05-07-2007 at 09:17 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
05-07-2007, 09:21 PM
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wow you guys are really hammering this thread, thanks by the way theres alot of useful informationg being brought to attention of all the people on this forum looking in to getting the most out of there S/C.
so it's looking like 300hp is starting to put way to much stress on the engine/drivetrain and is not very practical for the ecotec powertrain...??
do we have any confermation of anyone hitting 300hp other then GM?
and this #4 cylinder failing is this happening alot? or just mostly from bad tuneing?
thanks guys very helpful!
so it's looking like 300hp is starting to put way to much stress on the engine/drivetrain and is not very practical for the ecotec powertrain...??
do we have any confermation of anyone hitting 300hp other then GM?
and this #4 cylinder failing is this happening alot? or just mostly from bad tuneing?
thanks guys very helpful!
05-07-2007, 09:30 PM
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You're funny
I know exactly how long it's taking. I'm #2 on the list to receive them IF/when they make it happen. Why do you think I posted my original question of where everybody thought they would get them from.
I'll believe it's "in the works" when I get a progress update. They don't answer emails and when I call unfortunately I don't speak fax. Check that thread, or any thread for that matter, for the last time TAG posted anything in reference to this. Then tell me it's "in the works".
05-07-2007, 09:35 PM
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wow you guys are really hammering this thread, thanks by the way theres alot of useful informationg being brought to attention of all the people on this forum looking in to getting the most out of there S/C.
so it's looking like 300hp is starting to put way to much stress on the engine/drivetrain and is not very practical for the ecotec powertrain...??
do we have any confermation of anyone hitting 300hp other then GM?
and this #4 cylinder failing is this happening alot? or just mostly from bad tuneing?
thanks guys very helpful!
so it's looking like 300hp is starting to put way to much stress on the engine/drivetrain and is not very practical for the ecotec powertrain...??
do we have any confermation of anyone hitting 300hp other then GM?
and this #4 cylinder failing is this happening alot? or just mostly from bad tuneing?
thanks guys very helpful!
As far as the #4 cylinder....don't think about that too much. Instead focus on the fact that the reason it is happening is because at a certain point and certain amount of boost pressure our M62 roots blower is creating an environment that demands huge amounts of fuel that our fuel system cannot deliver reliably. This in turn leads to detonation and according to some detonation at the #4 cylinder because of it's position in the fuel rail.
05-07-2007, 09:38 PM
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And you're one of those confused individuals that thinks I don't know about this.
I know exactly how long it's taking. I'm #2 on the list to receive them IF/when they make it happen. Why do you think I posted my original question of where everybody thought they would get them from.
I'll believe it's "in the works" when I get a progress update. They don't answer emails and when I call unfortunately I don't speak fax. Check that thread, or any thread for that matter, for the last time TAG posted anything in reference to this. Then tell me it's "in the works".
I know exactly how long it's taking. I'm #2 on the list to receive them IF/when they make it happen. Why do you think I posted my original question of where everybody thought they would get them from.
I'll believe it's "in the works" when I get a progress update. They don't answer emails and when I call unfortunately I don't speak fax. Check that thread, or any thread for that matter, for the last time TAG posted anything in reference to this. Then tell me it's "in the works".
BURN!!!
Last edited by SSMOKEM; 05-07-2007 at 09:38 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
05-07-2007, 09:40 PM
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[QUOTE=burty12;1030798]wow you guys are really hammering this thread, thanks by the way theres alot of useful informationg being brought to attention of all the people on this forum looking in to getting the most out of there S/C.
so it's looking like 300hp is starting to put way to much stress on the engine/drivetrain and is not very practical for the ecotec powertrain...??
do we have any confermation of anyone hitting 300hp other then GM?
QUOTE]
basically yeah
and well there are some guys claiming 300hp but who knows. there was that 1 kid who ate an srt4 close to 300hp, 298 to be exact but yeah he blew the motor anyways. stock pistons!
so it's looking like 300hp is starting to put way to much stress on the engine/drivetrain and is not very practical for the ecotec powertrain...??
do we have any confermation of anyone hitting 300hp other then GM?
QUOTE]
basically yeah
and well there are some guys claiming 300hp but who knows. there was that 1 kid who ate an srt4 close to 300hp, 298 to be exact but yeah he blew the motor anyways. stock pistons!
05-07-2007, 10:10 PM
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And you're one of those confused individuals that thinks I don't know about this.
I know exactly how long it's taking. I'm #2 on the list to receive them IF/when they make it happen. Why do you think I posted my original question of where everybody thought they would get them from.
I'll believe it's "in the works" when I get a progress update. They don't answer emails and when I call unfortunately I don't speak fax. Check that thread, or any thread for that matter, for the last time TAG posted anything in reference to this. Then tell me it's "in the works".
I know exactly how long it's taking. I'm #2 on the list to receive them IF/when they make it happen. Why do you think I posted my original question of where everybody thought they would get them from.
I'll believe it's "in the works" when I get a progress update. They don't answer emails and when I call unfortunately I don't speak fax. Check that thread, or any thread for that matter, for the last time TAG posted anything in reference to this. Then tell me it's "in the works".
i'm glad that #2 means something to you and the noobs like this guy ----> good post, well thought out
Last edited by p7x; 05-08-2007 at 03:35 PM.
05-07-2007, 10:18 PM
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05-07-2007, 10:19 PM
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Funny you say that. I have just learned on Ecotecforums that apparently we could change our fuel pump or add an inline fuel pump to increase pressure and then use properly sized injectors