what would it take to hit 270whp?
05-07-2007, 10:20 PM
#51
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I don't think we should put a number on how much the ecotec can handle....that's guesswork. What we do know is that you cannot make 300HP and have a safe environment for the stock pistons with our roots S/C. Hypereutectic pistons themselves can actually take that much power but not when it's combined with extreme heat and detonation. I know because I've had a V8 with Hypereutectics running 330WHP without a problem.
As far as the #4 cylinder....don't think about that too much. Instead focus on the fact that the reason it is happening is because at a certain point and certain amount of boost pressure our M62 roots blower is creating an environment that demands huge amounts of fuel that our fuel system cannot deliver reliably. This in turn leads to detonation and according to some detonation at the #4 cylinder because of it's position in the fuel rail.
As far as the #4 cylinder....don't think about that too much. Instead focus on the fact that the reason it is happening is because at a certain point and certain amount of boost pressure our M62 roots blower is creating an environment that demands huge amounts of fuel that our fuel system cannot deliver reliably. This in turn leads to detonation and according to some detonation at the #4 cylinder because of it's position in the fuel rail.
05-07-2007, 10:26 PM
#52
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, 2 of those guys have been 20+PSI for almost 2 years now. Obviously with forged internals and cooling you would be safer, no question there but everyones is a daily driver including me.
05-07-2007, 10:41 PM
#53
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I'm sure if most the driving that your doing is just civil daily driving, you would be okay? myself I just like to race people once in a while, the reason I have started this post and others is to see what the S/C can do
I have a 01 celica gt and its time for something new more practical , and I got a lil guy "baby" yikes...haha on the way and a tiny celica is not very practical for me any more and its slow!! haha
I have a 01 celica gt and its time for something new more practical , and I got a lil guy "baby" yikes...haha on the way and a tiny celica is not very practical for me any more and its slow!! haha
05-07-2007, 10:53 PM
#54
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i made 270.4 to the wheels with the mods listed in my sig. And i have a stock exhaust. I would get met injection with this setup though cuz my temps run pretty high after a hard run. im getting meth injection after i get a new clutch.
05-08-2007, 07:36 AM
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I'm sure if most the driving that your doing is just civil daily driving, you would be okay? myself I just like to race people once in a while, the reason I have started this post and others is to see what the S/C can do
I have a 01 celica gt and its time for something new more practical , and I got a lil guy "baby" yikes...haha on the way and a tiny celica is not very practical for me any more and its slow!! haha
I have a 01 celica gt and its time for something new more practical , and I got a lil guy "baby" yikes...haha on the way and a tiny celica is not very practical for me any more and its slow!! haha
. Just my 2 cents but if you want that much HP reiablilty and practicality look into a MS3 if you haven't already done so.
05-08-2007, 10:23 AM
#56
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This thread makes me so happy and proud of you guys. There are a lot of young pups here talking major modifications in a calm normal manner and that doesn't happen much here. Big thumbs up to everyone in this discussion.
Anyway, I think most of you are hitting the nail on the head, it's not our pistons that are the problem, they should be good for 300+, but it's the heat that's killing them. The returnless fuel system is also an issue but I wonder once we start seeing compressor swaps (twin screw, whipple, turbo) whether or not we will find the fuel system is actualy fine for more horsepower. I'm not sure because I'm not up on fuel systems much but I know I've had a few lengthy phone conversations with some people here and we've kicked around a lot of theory. I think the problem we are running into is that every sytem on a car should be used to only do what it's supposed to. Cooling systems should cool, intake systems should deliver air, and fuel systems should deliver fuel. Everyone running the small pulleys (2.6s adn 2.5s) are give their fuel system double duty because it's not only fueling but also cooling so it's over working it. If we go with a more efficient compressor then the fuel system can work on fuel delivery and hopefully work better.
Basically, we've found the limits of the stock compressor and people should either back off from the small pulleys are swap compressors. I think 270hp can be done on the stock compressor safely, but if you want more I'd swap it out.
Anyway, I think most of you are hitting the nail on the head, it's not our pistons that are the problem, they should be good for 300+, but it's the heat that's killing them. The returnless fuel system is also an issue but I wonder once we start seeing compressor swaps (twin screw, whipple, turbo) whether or not we will find the fuel system is actualy fine for more horsepower. I'm not sure because I'm not up on fuel systems much but I know I've had a few lengthy phone conversations with some people here and we've kicked around a lot of theory. I think the problem we are running into is that every sytem on a car should be used to only do what it's supposed to. Cooling systems should cool, intake systems should deliver air, and fuel systems should deliver fuel. Everyone running the small pulleys (2.6s adn 2.5s) are give their fuel system double duty because it's not only fueling but also cooling so it's over working it. If we go with a more efficient compressor then the fuel system can work on fuel delivery and hopefully work better.
Basically, we've found the limits of the stock compressor and people should either back off from the small pulleys are swap compressors. I think 270hp can be done on the stock compressor safely, but if you want more I'd swap it out.
05-08-2007, 12:09 PM
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I am leaning toward the consensus that our fuel system is partly to blame, and the point that Dreamer made is a good one. Fuel system is doing cooling duties when you get down into the smaller pulleys. Personally I cant wait for some kind of swap kit to be made (read: twinscrew) as I think that will help things out alot. Also, a return fuel system conversion couldnt hurt, right?
for me, I think its going to be a stage 3 pulley at the most right now, and cooling mods. I'm waiting this one out for a while until we are able to figure out why #4 keeps popping.
Like dreamer said, guys!
for me, I think its going to be a stage 3 pulley at the most right now, and cooling mods. I'm waiting this one out for a while until we are able to figure out why #4 keeps popping.
Like dreamer said,
guys!
05-08-2007, 04:09 PM
#59
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I believe our stock fuel system will be fine. Over at the Ecotec forums I know that they are trying to tap the fuel rail at both ends. This should keep pressure equalized and prevent pressure drops at the end of the rail. I will keep you guys updated on the thread.
Edit: As already stated, a more efficient compressor will not strain the fuel system as much to run a safe AFR, so we should be okay with 60's past 270WHP and beyond. I don't know if you guys who have only owned Cobalts know this, but 60s are actually huge and can support ALOT of horsepower on most turbo cars.
But...if need be, we can up the fuel pressure by adding an inline pump or upping pressure. This is possible by changing tables in the ECU using a tuning program.
Edit: As already stated, a more efficient compressor will not strain the fuel system as much to run a safe AFR, so we should be okay with 60's past 270WHP and beyond. I don't know if you guys who have only owned Cobalts know this, but 60s are actually huge and can support ALOT of horsepower on most turbo cars.
But...if need be, we can up the fuel pressure by adding an inline pump or upping pressure. This is possible by changing tables in the ECU using a tuning program.
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