Why aren't the SS' running high 13's 200+ whp stock?
09-13-2007, 01:38 AM
#76
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What??? 105mph is good enough for high 12s if you want to be technical. I am not trying to insult you and call you dumb or anything, but all the talking about trap speeds you do really doesn't make sense. I could show you several 13.6 cars that trap between 66mph and and 110mph, consistently. 
09-13-2007, 01:38 AM
#77
What??? 105mph is good enough for high 12s if you want to be technical. I am not trying to insult you and call you dumb or anything, but all the talking about trap speeds you do really doesn't make sense. I could show you several 13.6 cars that trap between 66mph and and 110mph, consistently.
09-13-2007, 02:14 AM
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I would like to point out that the point you should shift at is derived from your gearing + torque curve.
You should shift to the next gear when one of these happens:
A) When the final drive torque will be higher in the new gear then it is in the current gear. That is, when (Torque @ current RPM) * Final Drive Ratio * Current Gear Ratio is less than what you would have from (Torque @ RPM after shift) * Final Drive Ratio * Next Gear Ratio
B) Assuming A hasn't happen yet, you hit your engine redline
The SS/SC, with or without Stage 2, pretty much never falls under A. Meaning that if you shift before redline, you are loosing the advantage of gearing and making less Actual Wheel Torque. Less Actual Wheel Torque equils less acceleration.
You should shift to the next gear when one of these happens:
A) When the final drive torque will be higher in the new gear then it is in the current gear. That is, when (Torque @ current RPM) * Final Drive Ratio * Current Gear Ratio is less than what you would have from (Torque @ RPM after shift) * Final Drive Ratio * Next Gear Ratio
B) Assuming A hasn't happen yet, you hit your engine redline
The SS/SC, with or without Stage 2, pretty much never falls under A. Meaning that if you shift before redline, you are loosing the advantage of gearing and making less Actual Wheel Torque. Less Actual Wheel Torque equils less acceleration.
09-13-2007, 02:26 AM
#79
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If you changed everything around and used horsepower it would a lot simpler.
http://bsr.njsr.org/2003/022303/2.wmv
I need to find his other vids he ran 13.6s at 66mph consistantly, obviously you see have no idea what you are talking about.
Hmmm, I linked several people to your posts a few with 8 second cars and even they said you make no sense, one is a member on here. They also said you should stop being dumb, not my words.
http://bsr.njsr.org/2003/022303/2.wmv
I need to find his other vids he ran 13.6s at 66mph consistantly
, obviously you see have no idea what you are talking about.Hmmm, I linked several people to your posts a few with 8 second cars and even they said you make no sense, one is a member on here. They also said you should stop being dumb, not my words.
As far as your 8 second friends, it's funny that you linked them and one is even on this site but no one has posted to back you, and yet I have had people already support my comments. There is a vendor on here that owns a speed shop out my way, that will FULLY agree with my statements as well as many others that are actually supposed to be on this site and not trolling and causing trouble.
09-13-2007, 02:52 AM
#80
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So people on a Cobalt site where the fastest ss/sc has ran high 12s have more knowledge than people that have ran 8s. Please show me someone that isn't a ******* lemming or drives a slow ass car agrees that "trap speed is all you need to know to see what a car is capable of."
And your torque comment is just rediculous.
Please show me someone that isn't a ******* lemming or drives a slow ass car agrees that "trap speed is all you need to know to see what a car is capable of."And your torque comment is just rediculous.
09-13-2007, 03:16 AM
#81
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DA affects power and can affect 60's. 60's have a huge effect on traps. Gearing(which includes tire size) and tuning can affect traps.
Generally most people don't care about trap speeds unless something is wrong or they need a chute and caged installed because of them. To say, "cars that run mid 13s at 108mph with 2.4 60's" are capable of mid-12s is just rediculous. They are capable of mid 13s because they can't hook for ****. Even if you get down to 2.0 60's, which a lot of you guys seem to think is good that car is still not running mid-12s.
Generally most people don't care about trap speeds unless something is wrong or they need a chute and caged installed because of them. To say, "cars that run mid 13s at 108mph with 2.4 60's" are capable of mid-12s is just rediculous. They are capable of mid 13s because they can't hook for ****. Even if you get down to 2.0 60's, which a lot of you guys seem to think is good that car is still not running mid-12s.
ever notice how fast are traps our compared to other cars? Astock car should trap 98-100MPH and stage 2 is good for 102-104MPH. SRT4s are running mid to low 13s with those trap speeds. Trap is the real indicator of how much HP a car has at the track, ET tells you how good of a driver you are.
Last edited by 1gmfanatik; 09-13-2007 at 03:16 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
09-13-2007, 03:22 AM
#82
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ive got mid 13's and my trap speed is good for high 12's,but traction is a bitch on the cobalt,so u loose time when u gotta play wit the throttle to balance it out
09-13-2007, 03:29 AM
#83
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I will agree with this comment xELEVENTYBILLION!
and for the rest of your post, yeah if you mod any car enough it can run anytime. You still make no sense. In order to turn a mid-high 13 second pass @ 107-108 into a mid-12 second pass the car has to cut a low low 1.8 at the very least and hope the tires they used to get their didn't **** up their gearing to bad on the big end especially on a FWD car.
Maybe I am completely misunderstanding you. But it sounds like you are saying, "yeah if you mod a car it can run a better time". Am I wrong?
and for the rest of your post, yeah if you mod any car enough it can run anytime. You still make no sense. In order to turn a mid-high 13 second pass @ 107-108 into a mid-12 second pass the car has to cut a low low 1.8 at the very least and hope the tires they used to get their didn't **** up their gearing to bad on the big end especially on a FWD car.
Maybe I am completely misunderstanding you. But it sounds like you are saying, "yeah if you mod a car it can run a better time". Am I wrong?
I do believe that if you mod your car, it should run a better time, but that's not what I was getting at. What I was trying to say is...With the trap speeds that our cars are hitting, with appropriate traction mods, they are more then capable of at least a high 12 second quarter mile pass. That is, hitting mid 13's and trapping at 108mph. The trap speed is what we need to pay attention to, for us to realize that traction issues is what we need to work on to get better times.
It's not that our cars are strictly slow ass 13 second cars, they aren't, they just have horrible traction because of being wrong wheel drive. (FWD) Not to mention, bang for your buck, this is a pretty quick car, and 13's are not that slow.
09-13-2007, 03:29 AM
#84
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i dont understand..explain?my car does have the power to break high 12's,but wats preventing it from doin it is traction and 60'..if i can get my 60' to be 1.8-2.0 with a 107mph trap i should be lookin at high 12's
09-13-2007, 03:32 AM
#85
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Agreed...
Last edited by 1gmfanatik; 09-13-2007 at 03:32 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
09-13-2007, 03:33 AM
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atleast someone is on my side..my own brother wont admit i can break 12's with the slow balt...but clutch is in the mail and drag radials are next...and let the race to 12's begin early next year
09-13-2007, 03:38 AM
#87
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I haven't taken mine to the track for fear of breaking the stock axles, but I may go anyways and see what happens, especially since it's been cooling down lately.
09-13-2007, 03:51 AM
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So people on a Cobalt site where the fastest ss/sc has ran high 12s have more knowledge than people that have ran 8s. Please show me someone that isn't a ******* lemming or drives a slow ass car agrees that "trap speed is all you need to know to see what a car is capable of."
And your torque comment is just rediculous.
Please show me someone that isn't a ******* lemming or drives a slow ass car agrees that "trap speed is all you need to know to see what a car is capable of."And your torque comment is just rediculous.
"A good torque spot"???
"try getting to HP without ft/lbs" ummm rev higher or downshift.
But the same goes for trying to build an engine that has horsepower but no torque.
Can't be done. HP and Torque are both important.
When I go the track I look at ET, then 60', then trap. We both agree that if people are going to the track and pulling off 2.3+60's they need more mods or more practice.
60' is most important to me, followed by the comparison between 1/8th mile mph and ET and 1/4 mile mph and ET of two different runs. Heat is one of the biggest factors for my car to overcome here in AZ. So I am looking at what did I do that had the fastest 60', and the least amount of heat soak.
09-13-2007, 03:51 AM
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My gramma's minivan with more mods is capable of high 12s.
I could argue your point of view in the same matter and say our cars that run 13.6 with 2.3+60's, if they had the appropriate traction mods they would be capable of high 12s. I am not saying you are wrong, I am just trying to tell you that when you say, "just look at trap speed" it doesn't make much sense because like I just said a person could say, "just look at 60' foot times". When I go the track I look at ET, then 60', then trap. We both agree that if people are going to the track and pulling off 2.3+60's they need more mods or more practice.
Is your car right now capable of cutting 1.8-2.0 60 foots??
I could argue your point of view in the same matter and say our cars that run 13.6 with 2.3+60's, if they had the appropriate traction mods they would be capable of high 12s. I am not saying you are wrong, I am just trying to tell you that when you say, "just look at trap speed" it doesn't make much sense because like I just said a person could say, "just look at 60' foot times". When I go the track I look at ET, then 60', then trap. We both agree that if people are going to the track and pulling off 2.3+60's they need more mods or more practice.
Is your car right now capable of cutting 1.8-2.0 60 foots??
09-13-2007, 04:01 AM
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09-13-2007, 04:08 AM
#91
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He's a troll, and I don't think he's happy unless he's arguing with someone. That seems to be his goal. Let's go onto a Cobalt forum where i have no need to be and argue about **** that I really don't know anything about to try and get everyones panties in a bunch YAY!!
09-13-2007, 04:10 AM
#92
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He's a troll, and I don't think he's happy unless he's arguing with someone. That seems to be his goal. Let's go onto a Cobalt forum where i have no need to be and argue about **** that I really don't know anything about to try and get everyones panties in a bunch YAY!!
09-13-2007, 04:11 AM
#93
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all i know is with my trap on the cobalt.. i would have been running mis 12s on my old grand prix.
i was running 13.6's at 102mph in my grand prix with a 2.0 60'
i think the lowest trap i have seen with the best time was a 12.0 at 105mph on a grand prix... (AWD???) just a nice slick
i was running 13.6's at 102mph in my grand prix with a 2.0 60'
i think the lowest trap i have seen with the best time was a 12.0 at 105mph on a grand prix... (AWD???) just a nice slick
09-13-2007, 09:03 AM
#94
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DA affects power and can affect 60's. 60's have a huge effect on traps. Gearing(which includes tire size) and tuning can affect traps.
Generally most people don't care about trap speeds unless something is wrong or they need a chute and caged installed because of them. To say, "cars that run mid 13s at 108mph with 2.4 60's" are capable of mid-12s is just rediculous. They are capable of mid 13s because they can't hook for ****. Even if you get down to 2.0 60's, which a lot of you guys seem to think is good that car is still not running mid-12s.
Generally most people don't care about trap speeds unless something is wrong or they need a chute and caged installed because of them. To say, "cars that run mid 13s at 108mph with 2.4 60's" are capable of mid-12s is just rediculous. They are capable of mid 13s because they can't hook for ****. Even if you get down to 2.0 60's, which a lot of you guys seem to think is good that car is still not running mid-12s.
09-13-2007, 09:14 AM
#95
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If you changed everything around and used horsepower it would a lot simpler.
http://bsr.njsr.org/2003/022303/2.wmv
I need to find his other vids he ran 13.6s at 66mph consistantly, obviously you see have no idea what you are talking about.
Hmmm, I linked several people to your posts a few with 8 second cars and even they said you make no sense, one is a member on here. They also said you should stop being dumb, not my words.
http://bsr.njsr.org/2003/022303/2.wmv
I need to find his other vids he ran 13.6s at 66mph consistantly
, obviously you see have no idea what you are talking about.Hmmm, I linked several people to your posts a few with 8 second cars and even they said you make no sense, one is a member on here. They also said you should stop being dumb, not my words.
unless you're hitting 120 then braking before you hit the 1/4
Last edited by Blk06SSTexMan; 09-13-2007 at 09:33 AM.
09-13-2007, 01:00 PM
#96
i'm gonna g o with the board in that video is broken and he ran an 88 1/4 because like blk06sstexman said... it's math/ physics it's not possible ... less it's a 1/8 mile at 66 MPH and 13.6 that i will believe .. however the troll is banned.. finally... thanks mods for getting around to my request 
09-14-2007, 08:40 AM
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Yes, there has been a few in the 12's. There should be many many more, but traction and pockets deep enough to fix that seem to be the largest problem, that and alot of younger less experienced drivers.
09-14-2007, 06:12 PM
#100
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My tires will be new come spring. research is on.