Why are these cars so darn hard to drive?
05-18-2007, 10:36 PM
#52
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hello. this is my first post.
i am the one blueta was talking about on the first page.......15 cars in ten years........ well he is close. i have actually had 22 cars since 1998. All of them stick. a few exeamples are....
98 mustang cobra. novi 2000 shm preped long block...... 540 rwhp.
94 mustang gt....... vortech ysi with a dss bottom end and afr 185 heads. 585 rwhp 520 rwt.
99 mustang gt. just boltons.
4 dsm all turbo 3 awd one fwd. all with bigger turbos and LOTS more mods.
1.8t beetle with an atp gt-28rs.
etc..........
what im getting at is I know how to drive stick and this car is a pita. Even with heavy aftermarket clutches my 94 and 98 mustang were much easer and much more consistant when pulling out with than my ss. it to me seems like a combination of one of the WORST dirve by wire systems i have ever driven, and maby a little 4cyl with a catchy clutch.
and another thing id like to add. is anybody who thinks awd is a bandaid, is silly in the head. dump the clutch and your going to smoke it, or leave your center diff at the light. not enough rpm and you bog. its a very fine line between bogging and breaking and takes alot of skill to properly launch a powerfull awd car.
as a matter of fact at this very moment there is a blue sti sitting in my drive way because some dummy though awd was easy to launch and now the car doesnt move anymore. LOL
im not trying to come off as a dick in my first post. just venting a little
i am the one blueta was talking about on the first page.......15 cars in ten years........ well he is close. i have actually had 22 cars since 1998. All of them stick. a few exeamples are....
98 mustang cobra. novi 2000 shm preped long block...... 540 rwhp.
94 mustang gt....... vortech ysi with a dss bottom end and afr 185 heads. 585 rwhp 520 rwt.
99 mustang gt. just boltons.
4 dsm all turbo 3 awd one fwd. all with bigger turbos and LOTS more mods.
1.8t beetle with an atp gt-28rs.
etc..........
what im getting at is I know how to drive stick and this car is a pita. Even with heavy aftermarket clutches my 94 and 98 mustang were much easer and much more consistant when pulling out with than my ss. it to me seems like a combination of one of the WORST dirve by wire systems i have ever driven, and maby a little 4cyl with a catchy clutch.
and another thing id like to add. is anybody who thinks awd is a bandaid, is silly in the head. dump the clutch and your going to smoke it, or leave your center diff at the light. not enough rpm and you bog. its a very fine line between bogging and breaking and takes alot of skill to properly launch a powerfull awd car.
as a matter of fact at this very moment there is a blue sti sitting in my drive way because some dummy though awd was easy to launch and now the car doesnt move anymore. LOL
im not trying to come off as a dick in my first post. just venting a little
05-18-2007, 10:52 PM
#53
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hello. this is my first post.
i am the one blueta was talking about on the first page.......15 cars in ten years........ well he is close. i have actually had 22 cars since 1998. All of them stick. a few exeamples are....
98 mustang cobra. novi 2000 shm preped long block...... 540 rwhp.
94 mustang gt....... vortech ysi with a dss bottom end and afr 185 heads. 585 rwhp 520 rwt.
99 mustang gt. just boltons.
4 dsm all turbo 3 awd one fwd. all with bigger turbos and LOTS more mods.
1.8t beetle with an atp gt-28rs.
etc..........
what im getting at is I know how to drive stick and this car is a pita. Even with heavy aftermarket clutches my 94 and 98 mustang were much easer and much more consistant when pulling out with than my ss. it to me seems like a combination of one of the WORST dirve by wire systems i have ever driven, and maby a little 4cyl with a catchy clutch.
and another thing id like to add. is anybody who thinks awd is a bandaid, is silly in the head. dump the clutch and your going to smoke it, or leave your center diff at the light. not enough rpm and you bog. its a very fine line between bogging and breaking and takes alot of skill to properly launch a powerfull awd car.
as a matter of fact at this very moment there is a blue sti sitting in my drive way because some dummy though awd was easy to launch and now the car doesnt move anymore. LOL
im not trying to come off as a dick in my first post. just venting a little
i am the one blueta was talking about on the first page.......15 cars in ten years........ well he is close. i have actually had 22 cars since 1998. All of them stick. a few exeamples are....
98 mustang cobra. novi 2000 shm preped long block...... 540 rwhp.
94 mustang gt....... vortech ysi with a dss bottom end and afr 185 heads. 585 rwhp 520 rwt.
99 mustang gt. just boltons.
4 dsm all turbo 3 awd one fwd. all with bigger turbos and LOTS more mods.
1.8t beetle with an atp gt-28rs.
etc..........
what im getting at is I know how to drive stick and this car is a pita. Even with heavy aftermarket clutches my 94 and 98 mustang were much easer and much more consistant when pulling out with than my ss. it to me seems like a combination of one of the WORST dirve by wire systems i have ever driven, and maby a little 4cyl with a catchy clutch.
and another thing id like to add. is anybody who thinks awd is a bandaid, is silly in the head. dump the clutch and your going to smoke it, or leave your center diff at the light. not enough rpm and you bog. its a very fine line between bogging and breaking and takes alot of skill to properly launch a powerfull awd car.
as a matter of fact at this very moment there is a blue sti sitting in my drive way because some dummy though awd was easy to launch and now the car doesnt move anymore. LOL
im not trying to come off as a dick in my first post. just venting a little
As far as AWD being a bandaid fix; I don't agree with that. I do agree though that AWD is easier to launch than FWD. Just because it's easier to launch doesn't mean you should launch it at an unsafe RPM and just dump the clutch (Like the guy in the STi probably did); you don't have to modulate the throttle on an AWD car to keep from spinning the tires etc., you just make a clean smooth clutch transition at a good RPM and you'll be off. AWD is easier to launch than FWD.
05-18-2007, 11:05 PM
#54
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I'm still getting used to mine...It's like the clutch catches at different places, or it can't decide how much gas it wants...
This is by far the most difficult car to get used to, that I've driven
This is by far the most difficult car to get used to, that I've driven
05-18-2007, 11:07 PM
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It's always so funny how it's "driver mod" this and driver mod that 
I work in a garage and drive anywhere from 5-10 manual cars a week. Sometimes more. I can tell you that none of those I've ever driven pull out the same way. We have a way steep first gear (3.38) with a very spaced out 2nd (1.76). Those aren't even close! Stick that with a POS drive by wire system (nothing beats a good old throttle cable with throttle response), and some other things like a grabby clutch (which is good), fast reving etc and it's more difficult then a normal honda civic. I'm not saying it's impossible to shift smooth or pull out smooth or anything like that. I'm just saying it's more difficult then normal. I've never had any problems pulling out with any of my brothers manual mustangs, dsm's (awd and fwd), fbodies, STI, etc with "high performance clutches". I guess it's just different. I just hate pulling out sounding like a race car and doing 10mph lol. And that damn drive by wire that seems to have some kind of a delay when your rpm's are below 1k when first pressing it.
EDIT: on a side note I raced my first person with my balt. A wrx with exhaust and that's all I know of and beat it very easily from a 40mph roll in 2nd (my cars sweet spot).
I work in a garage and drive anywhere from 5-10 manual cars a week. Sometimes more. I can tell you that none of those I've ever driven pull out the same way. We have a way steep first gear (3.38) with a very spaced out 2nd (1.76). Those aren't even close! Stick that with a POS drive by wire system (nothing beats a good old throttle cable with throttle response), and some other things like a grabby clutch (which is good), fast reving etc and it's more difficult then a normal honda civic. I'm not saying it's impossible to shift smooth or pull out smooth or anything like that. I'm just saying it's more difficult then normal. I've never had any problems pulling out with any of my brothers manual mustangs, dsm's (awd and fwd), fbodies, STI, etc with "high performance clutches". I guess it's just different. I just hate pulling out sounding like a race car and doing 10mph lol. And that damn drive by wire that seems to have some kind of a delay when your rpm's are below 1k when first pressing it.EDIT: on a side note I raced my first person with my balt. A wrx with exhaust and that's all I know of and beat it very easily from a 40mph roll in 2nd (my cars sweet spot).
this car is different and just takes some getting used to. its not hard to drive by any means, just different and im pretty sure that was the point of this thread, not that its impossible.
05-18-2007, 11:19 PM
#56
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That is the best way to put it............. not hard but different........
05-18-2007, 11:33 PM
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I can't believe how many people can even tell the difference. Personally I have had 8 cars over the last 10 years, all new when I purchased them and I think the Cobalt is probably the smoothest next to the 04 Celica GT-S that I had, there's nothing that drives smoother than that in my opinion. The only thing that I really even see as being an issue for a new driver maybe is that first gear is basically a bitch, which is why I just use it to jump my car, then go straight to second. If you actually use first for more than that, then you'll bounce around, but you have that issue with most any vehicle, it's just slightly more obvious with the Cobalt.
Personally, I love the shifter, it's firm, yet smooth, the gas pedal is perfect for zipping through traffic, and the clutch engages beautifully. I drive an 07, so there might have been some slight modifications, but even my 06 LS drove great, which is why I opted to upgrade to the 07 SS/SC. I guess it all comes down to your level of experience in driving a stick shift and which vehicle you have. If you don't have a lot of experience, and you are suddenly driving a supercharge vehicle, you are going to get your ass kicked for a little while. That's just the natural learning progression.
Personally, I love the shifter, it's firm, yet smooth, the gas pedal is perfect for zipping through traffic, and the clutch engages beautifully. I drive an 07, so there might have been some slight modifications, but even my 06 LS drove great, which is why I opted to upgrade to the 07 SS/SC. I guess it all comes down to your level of experience in driving a stick shift and which vehicle you have. If you don't have a lot of experience, and you are suddenly driving a supercharge vehicle, you are going to get your ass kicked for a little while. That's just the natural learning progression.
05-18-2007, 11:48 PM
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same thing with me..... if i dont granny off the line and usually not even pace other vehicles at the light it sounds like i'm in a race, or i break lose the tires......
i usually bring the rpm up to 2000 let out the clutch slowly when it starts to engage i back off the throttle slightly until it's fully out than accelerate as usual, pain in but to get a good start w/o looking like your going head to head with the old lady in the mini van next to ya :p
i'll usually shift out of first around 3000, well same with all my gears around 3000rpm. and yes i can drive quite well, i do it for a living
lol.
i usually bring the rpm up to 2000 let out the clutch slowly when it starts to engage i back off the throttle slightly until it's fully out than accelerate as usual, pain in but to get a good start w/o looking like your going head to head with the old lady in the mini van next to ya :p
i'll usually shift out of first around 3000, well same with all my gears around 3000rpm. and yes i can drive quite well, i do it for a living
lol.
05-18-2007, 11:58 PM
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so what if everything thinks you are racing anyway.... I do a moderate launch off the line, which usually smokes most people, and then just pace myself up to the speed limit... doing that I have absolutely no issues. It's when I ***** foot it off the line that it jumps around a bit... so my solution... no ***** footing. If you want to ***** foot, buy one of those **** bubble cruisers by Chrysler...
05-19-2007, 12:01 AM
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so what if everything thinks you are racing anyway.... I do a moderate launch off the line, which usually smokes most people, and then just pace myself up to the speed limit... doing that I have absolutely no issues. It's when I ***** foot it off the line that it jumps around a bit... so my solution... no ***** footing. If you want to ***** foot, buy one of those **** bubble cruisers by Chrysler...
05-19-2007, 12:37 AM
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Well, it really depends on what type of exhaust you have. But from the sound of it, the originally poster was talking about a stock exhaust, which is indeed throatier than most other vehicles, but definitely not enough to get the cops on you. The large majority of cops aren't going to pull you over for an exhaust alone... if you are driving like an *******, then they are going to nail you on everything. Same is true for window tint, most of the time, they aren't going to nail you on it unless it is incredibly bad or if you are already doing something abnoxious.
Personally, I'm not going to get an exhaust that is louder than my car can back up... which basically means that I don't plan on breaking any crazy decibel laws anytime soon, because until my car is up above 350-400 HP, that extra sound isn't necessary... because you have nothing to warrant it. But that's my own build strategy... it's kept me out of trouble, by giving me a lower profile.
Personally, I'm not going to get an exhaust that is louder than my car can back up... which basically means that I don't plan on breaking any crazy decibel laws anytime soon, because until my car is up above 350-400 HP, that extra sound isn't necessary... because you have nothing to warrant it. But that's my own build strategy... it's kept me out of trouble, by giving me a lower profile.
05-19-2007, 01:04 AM
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You can't get a ticket for SOUNDING like you are racing. It's not even illegal to take off from the line quickly. Hell, I take off from a line fast all of the time, but I NEVER go over the speed limit either, and if I notice someone pacing me, I generally back off, unless I'm 100% positive that there aren't cops, or others around that could be injured as a result of our wrecklessness. Again, I think it all comes down to whether or not you are driving like a jackass... if you are, then you are going to get pulled over for virtually anything, if not then they aren't going to mess with you.
And no... that's not just an Alaska cop thing, it's an EVERYWHERE cop thing. I haven't been in Alaska my entire life, only the last few years, and the key is that you can't be a jackass... we have more cops per capita in Anchorage than most any other city, and they don't have a damned thing to do, so they love pulling people over... but if you aren't an idiot, they can't pull you over because you "sound" like you are racing. It will never happen and if it did, they have to be able to prove it in court... and how can they? That is why they have to have tint measuring wands, so that they can PROVE in court that your tint is past legal limits. That's why they store speeds in traffic guns and on the laptops, so they can PROVE you were speeding. You can't prove racing by sound alone... all they can get is a decibel violation and that is incredibly easy to fight, because again, they need evidence.
And no... that's not just an Alaska cop thing, it's an EVERYWHERE cop thing. I haven't been in Alaska my entire life, only the last few years, and the key is that you can't be a jackass... we have more cops per capita in Anchorage than most any other city, and they don't have a damned thing to do, so they love pulling people over... but if you aren't an idiot, they can't pull you over because you "sound" like you are racing. It will never happen and if it did, they have to be able to prove it in court... and how can they? That is why they have to have tint measuring wands, so that they can PROVE in court that your tint is past legal limits. That's why they store speeds in traffic guns and on the laptops, so they can PROVE you were speeding. You can't prove racing by sound alone... all they can get is a decibel violation and that is incredibly easy to fight, because again, they need evidence.
05-19-2007, 01:07 AM
#65
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"exhibition of speed"
no evidence needed.
game over.
Not saying I agree with it. but you CAN get a ticket for sounding like your racing.
You can get a ticket for making your tires squeek for 2 seconds from the line.
no evidence needed.
game over.
Not saying I agree with it. but you CAN get a ticket for sounding like your racing.
You can get a ticket for making your tires squeek for 2 seconds from the line.
05-19-2007, 01:16 AM
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the evidence it the cops word... unfortunately its very hard to contradict that in court... this is battle not going to go anywhere so lets just leave it at your goin to continue to launch at the light and i will continue to drive like a grandma.
05-19-2007, 01:16 AM
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You could easily fight that in court. Think about what that means... "exhibition of speed", that could be anyone that is driving faster than another car... it's a weak argument, and you could easily use a satisfactory driving record to trump that anyday. They key is that you don't speed. If you don't break the speed limit, they have nothing on you. There are no acceleration laws as long as you aren't swaying and you have complete control of your vehicle. The problem is that most people can't just gun it and stop once they reach the speed limit... noooo... they have to do an extra 20 over it... and that's when they get caught for things like 'exhibition of speed'... if you never speed, you can't get a ticket for it... simple as that.
05-19-2007, 01:39 AM
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Burnouts are a little different... why would you purposely draw attention to your vehicle like that? I think you are asking for a ticket. If you are just driving fast to the speed limit, you won't really stand out unless you are at a stop light heading towards the start of a 70 MPH zone or something... otherwise in normal city conditions, it's hard to really get too amazing of a jump on anywhen when racing to 40-50 mph. You just aren't going to stand out much, even if you are literally racing another car up to the same speed. Burnouts... those are a little more obvious... personally I find those annoying, but again, for a cop to prove that would be difficult in court. If you have a passenger in your car, you have a witness, the cop only has their word, so it would be especially be impossible in that instance.
While I don't think I'm an EXPERT on law, I do have a Bachelors in Criminal Justice, with a specialization in Business Law... doesn't mean I know all law, but I have enough of a background to understand what will fly and what won't in court. It's all about how you present yourself in court and whether or not you know your rights. Educate yourself and most traffic violations based on word of mouth can EASILY be thrown out. One person's word isn't generally enough.... keep in mind, that in small towns, one person's word is law... but if you elevate the case, winning should be much easier.
While I don't think I'm an EXPERT on law, I do have a Bachelors in Criminal Justice, with a specialization in Business Law... doesn't mean I know all law, but I have enough of a background to understand what will fly and what won't in court. It's all about how you present yourself in court and whether or not you know your rights. Educate yourself and most traffic violations based on word of mouth can EASILY be thrown out. One person's word isn't generally enough.... keep in mind, that in small towns, one person's word is law... but if you elevate the case, winning should be much easier.
05-19-2007, 01:41 AM
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Burnouts are a little different... why would you purposely draw attention to your vehicle like that? I think you are asking for a ticket. If you are just driving fast to the speed limit, you won't really stand out unless you are at a stop light heading towards the start of a 70 MPH zone or something... otherwise in normal city conditions, it's hard to really get too amazing of a jump on anywhen when racing to 40-50 mph. You just aren't going to stand out much, even if you are literally racing another car up to the same speed. Burnouts... those are a little more obvious... personally I find those annoying, but again, for a cop to prove that would be difficult in court. If you have a passenger in your car, you have a witness, the cop only has their word, so it would be especially be impossible in that instance.
While I don't think I'm an EXPERT on law, I do have a Bachelors in Criminal Justice, with a specialization in Business Law... doesn't mean I know all law, but I have enough of a background to understand what will fly and what won't in court. It's all about how you present yourself in court and whether or not you know your rights. Educate yourself and most traffic violations based on word of mouth can EASILY be thrown out. One person's word isn't generally enough.... keep in mind, that in small towns, one person's word is law... but if you elevate the case, winning should be much easier.
While I don't think I'm an EXPERT on law, I do have a Bachelors in Criminal Justice, with a specialization in Business Law... doesn't mean I know all law, but I have enough of a background to understand what will fly and what won't in court. It's all about how you present yourself in court and whether or not you know your rights. Educate yourself and most traffic violations based on word of mouth can EASILY be thrown out. One person's word isn't generally enough.... keep in mind, that in small towns, one person's word is law... but if you elevate the case, winning should be much easier.
05-19-2007, 01:41 AM
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You could easily fight that in court. Think about what that means... "exhibition of speed", that could be anyone that is driving faster than another car... it's a weak argument, and you could easily use a satisfactory driving record to trump that anyday. They key is that you don't speed. If you don't break the speed limit, they have nothing on you. There are no acceleration laws as long as you aren't swaying and you have complete control of your vehicle. The problem is that most people can't just gun it and stop once they reach the speed limit... noooo... they have to do an extra 20 over it... and that's when they get caught for things like 'exhibition of speed'... if you never speed, you can't get a ticket for it... simple as that.
05-19-2007, 01:46 AM
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While I don't think I'm an EXPERT on law, I do have a Bachelors in Criminal Justice, with a specialization in Business Law... doesn't mean I know all law, but I have enough of a background to understand what will fly and what won't in court. It's all about how you present yourself in court and whether or not you know your rights. Educate yourself and most traffic violations based on word of mouth can EASILY be thrown out. One person's word isn't generally enough.... keep in mind, that in small towns, one person's word is law... but if you elevate the case, winning should be much easier.
05-19-2007, 01:48 AM
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welcome to law enforcement.
http://www.salem-news.com/articles/m...nies_51807.php
american law enforcement at it's best. btw does anyone know the score to the wings game? LMFAO!
damnit that part isn't even in it...he asks in the phone call what the score to the wings game is randomly. funny as hell.
http://www.salem-news.com/articles/m...nies_51807.php
american law enforcement at it's best. btw does anyone know the score to the wings game? LMFAO!
damnit that part isn't even in it...he asks in the phone call what the score to the wings game is randomly. funny as hell.
05-19-2007, 01:52 AM
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welcome to law enforcement.
http://www.salem-news.com/articles/m...nies_51807.php
american law enforcement at it's best. btw does anyone know the score to the ducks game? LMFAO!
http://www.salem-news.com/articles/m...nies_51807.php
american law enforcement at it's best. btw does anyone know the score to the ducks game? LMFAO!
05-19-2007, 01:53 AM
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