Jn2

iTrader: (1)

2.2 compadable, man u guys are claiming money i havent even earned yet

cobaltR

sub'd for results...I'm assuming around 310whp.

drew1991sf

i guess they dont want my $1300 for a ported head and 78lb valve springs :[

2MCHBoost

SWEET. Thanks bro

Matt M

As far as I know, Tim just grabbed a TB off the shelf.

Bully Clutch? Like the company in Canada? No, we don't use Bully Clutch.

I didn't say 283 whp is all the TA car did. I said 283 at the crank is all they claimed.

I don't see any PMs from you. Can you resend? Or email me at stattama@aol.com.

ralliartist

just be careful when you order valve springs. I ordered my supertech 78lb springs from OTTP and received a set of springs that were measured at 100lbs at the install height and therefore started breaking my spring retainers. No big deal though, I've contacted supertech and they are handling the situation perfectly.

should be able to make more tq than that.

EatonTVS07

iTrader: (4)

click

WickedSS2005

iTrader: (1)

Rali, if it's being handled, then why mention what vendor you bought it from? Unless it was the vendors fault?

And that trq is realistic with that hp. As for your TVS comment, I made 318/282. I have yet to see another sub 330hp LSJ car make more trq off nitrous. So I don't see the tvs lacking trq

ralliartist

It's being handled by Supertech, NOT OTTP. I called OTTP about the Cometic HG problem I had and they refused to believe me and said Cometic has never had a failure to date on a LSJ. Then I post about it on the redline forums and 04redline says that his cometic gave out, and then a few other people come forth about theirs failing. So instead of trying to resolve a problem with OTTP, I decided to go straight to maker this time as OTTP is just a distributer.

I'm not blaming OTTP since all they do is distribute the parts. How were they to know what the springs were unless they opened the package and tested them themselves? But at the same time, I wasn't about to call them to give them a "heads up" as I did last time just for them to tell me "that's BS" in a way without saying that.

All I'm doing is informing someone to measure the springs at the install height, just as I did, but don't install them if the pressure is too high. I installed them anyways because I asked around and everyone told me there was only the 78lb springs and that I must not be measuring them correctly. My machinest didn't feel comfortable installing them either, but he said I might be ok. After taking the head off the block and inspecting things, I found the retainers were all cracked and chipped, and then I called supertech, they informed me that they do have a full race valve spring set meant for solid lifters. Which is why my stock hydraulic lifters couldn't hold up and caused the cracking of the retainers.

As for the TVS comment, I'm just going off the average, not ONE person. Right now, I feel like buying the TVS just to make a hair over 300whp and somewhere in the 240-280wtq range is a waste of money. 1700+ dollars. That's a lot of money. I feel I can make better numbers than that on the Stock m62.

Only time will tell what I put down and run, kind of hard to mod a car that's in another country.

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

It's possible you received the correct valve springs. The supertechs are a dual spring but the interior spring cannot be setup with the proper install height because of the spacer piece needed to create a lower mating surface over the retainer. The setup with them varies based on what cam your using. We consider this piece a race part and you should ask questions or have a qualified shop do the install and check pressures/clearances. We spec out every head during our isntalls based on the cam being used.


cometic has many issues with quality control but the isntall of their gaskets also requires some special care. We learned this the hard way when doing 3800 work with them. For most users we recommend the OEM head gasket. The cometic should only be used by someone with qualified experience on this motor using that gasket.

And before you slam me rall for whatever you might, I believe that your problems could have been avoided. Since you are already taking care of them my post is more for people who will use these parts in the future.

ralliartist

^I can understand what you said 100%. All of that makes perfect sense.

BUT, I can assure you the valve springs were installed correctly and that Supertech has verified that they DO have 100lb race springs meant for solid lifters. I haven't actually verified with Supertech that this is what I have recieved because I haven't actually shipped the springs back to them. But, just for reassurance, I can have my machinest recheck the springs and everything.

On the cometic headgasket, you could be absolutely right, it could have been a QC thing, or it could have been install error if they are that touchy to install. It's more than the 3800 and LSJ community that has problems with them though. A lof of the LSx platforms have problems with them also. They guy helping me assemble my motor kept trying to persuade me to use a stock head gasket, he drives a LS2 GTO.

hatrickstu

iTrader: (1)

ralli i thought your headgasket failure was due to the 22 ft.lbs you torqued the head down with.

WickedSS2005

iTrader: (1)

Ralli, I believe you also mis-trq'd the head studs, right? That has a lot to do with the gasket failure.

Zooomer, I agree with your most recent post in this thread. What fasteners do you plan to use? ARP studs or stock? And I'm gonna side w/ a stock head gasket on Tim's build. Correct?

ralliartist

I did ride around with the head tq'ed at 22ft/lbs, upon discovering I had the wrong tq specs, I retorqued the head to 75ft/lbs. The car held for about a week in that condition and then it started to eat through coolant again. So I order a stock head gasket. Then when I put a stock gasket on the car, it held fine.

383_Stroker

iTrader: (3)

I had one of those "oh ****" moments like that with rod bolts one time.. that was worth a new set of bearings after only one race

ralliartist

I drove for a week with the head tq'ed to 22ft/lbs. The only reason I didn't realize it sooner that the tq specs were wrong, is because I was babying the car for break-in for 500miles. Then when I hit 500 miles and started to put some load on the engine, that's when I noticed some overheating during a 4th gear pull, and I was going through coolant. The car was retorqued immediately. Held fine for a week, had some really great races. Then it started to overheat again the night I raced the 50trim srt swapped neon on about the 4th or 5th pull. I had my buddy watching the logs while I was scanning during the race. I ordered a stock headgasket on monday and switched it out friday. The car wasn't driven unless I absolutely had to go somewhere during that week. I swapped the head gaskets friday night, had a bunch of good races all day saturday. Then the cyl sleeve split saturday night.

WickedSS2005

iTrader: (1)

If it was leaking, you would have coolant on the surfaces on the gasket and the block. Even after re-torquing it I doubt it had a good seal.

But enough about that failure. Any estimated build date for this ZZP build?

ralliartist

When I compared the 2 gaskets, OEM and COMETIC, the OEM had a lot more rubber to make the seal tighter. Even my used stock head gasket from when I first disassembled the motor had more rubber on it. And the stock head gasket has copper spray already on the gasket to help with the seal. The cometic just seems to be cheaper made to me.

Josh@ottp

iTrader: (4)

As I recall, I told you I have never seen one fail on a lsj to date. I told you to re-check your torque settings and to get back to me, which you never did so I had no way to help you on this problem. Then you went around the forums and told everyone that we were talking bad about you and saying you don't know how to torque a hg, we never did this. The truth here is that the hg failed due to user error, if you would've called back and let me know why it failed I would have still got it covered for you.


As for the springs I agree with zooomer, spring installed height should be checked as well as spring pressure at open and close.

One question I have ralli is what retainers were cracked and chipped? The stock ones or the titanium ones that come with the kit?

06black

whelp, you really are an idiot.

common sense not quite kick in?



any who, ZZP.

lets see here. the b-gas LSJ lakester with a normal "M", exhasut(only) ported head. w/GMR cam made 330.

they also had full ECM control and true calibration Pros (the lotus(and some AVL) gang)

as well as a mindset of knowing the motor had to be run full out for miles on end. so i'm sure more was possible, just not at that WOT reliability level. but any way, not bad at all.

neither you, me, or any one on here can claim any of that, sooooooooo i'd say maybe just a crack over 300, probably 290's. about 20ish less ft/lb's

but then it comes down to the dyno's used, and of course, what power number you guys want it to make. as anything can be adjusted.


i'll keep my eyes peeled for results, i wish more people stuck with the M, as for a dd / impromptu street run it was a good, quick, and solid power adder.


any time line for results?



edit -

had the cam info wrong, its now corrected.

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

I can't understand what you're staying.
b-gas LSJ lakester with a normal "M",

what is b-gas? who is lakester? what is a normal "M"?
for the record so it doesn't come up later... We do not adjust our dyno. The only time we made a change was changing it to STD correction and we told everyone that was done. We dyno cars before and after, or try to, to eliminate the happy dyno syndrome. most factory Cobalts we check are around 210 which seems to be normal so I think our dyno is in line. Tim's car, if it does something cool, will be dyno'd elsewhere to back it up. I just wonder if that place shows a higher number, then which do we use?

06black

i never said you would, or have. just that its possible.

shop cars are just that. representations of the shop that built them. saying i've never seen numbers "adjusted" for the benefit of the shop would be a huge lie. hell, i've even seen some media publications question final results.

if you guys post up a before and after sheet with all the needed cal, weather, and load data (on both occasions) then there will be no need to dispute the results.



any time line for these results?

Zooomer

iTrader: (1)

Not for sure. It's Tim's car so it depends on how much time he has to work on it.

rallycobalt06

subscribed for the hell of it.

nicksredline

sub'd cant wait for some numbers... zoomer i am 1 person who doesent hate you or zzp... good luck with everything and i hope it puts down the numbers ur lookin for. also definatly get us informed on those cams for the lsj when u get it ready for production.