celicacobalt

i was just thinking, the 2.2 might be able to swap out the 2.2 ecu and put in the 2.4 ecu and use hp tuners to make it work right on the 2.2 then bam you have your tuning solution, can someone tell me why this might not work cuz it sounds like it would work at a first glance. it might help you guys get on your way to being turboed.

YSUsteven

Doesn't the computer control the VVT for the 2.4? What's it gona do when it can't change the timing? crash?

Halfcent

Different wiring harnesses, various systems incompatibilities. It's more likely to be possible using the LE5 computer then it is the LSJ due the transmissions. But if someone much more technically inclinded then myself was able to get a hold of the different harness pin-outs and was able to address the compatibility issues, I think it could be possible.

The question is, is it necessary? I don't know too much about the computer in the LE5, but if it's still a 16-bit processor, then it's no better then E16 computer in the L61. I am curious however. I'll see what specifications I can find about the two.

lightinbalt

couldnt we do the same with the 2.0 computer??? if this is a dumb question sorry...

celicacobalt

well i think if hp tuners can turn vvt off then it should be fine and the 2.0 computer might work if you have a 5 speed but for auto's they would have to use the 2.4 auto ecu i would assume to control the tranny but this is just a thought since i dont know much about this stuff

bluebaltjim

im a little confused here, i was under the impression that the tuning complications with the 2.2 ecu was in the map sensor and the ecu's inability to see beyond one bar.

NJHK

The 2.2s in the Cobalts use an MAF (Mass Air Flow) Sensor which is in the intake track. The 2.2s in the Previous car generations (2002-2005) like J-bodies and Grand Ams have MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) Sensors which are located in the intake manifolds.

If you're referring to boosting an stock n/a vehicle, you'll experience this problem with every non-boosted stock car. It's not necessarily for the reason that the MAPs or MAFs can't read above atmospheric pressure, it's that the computer was not designed to send enough fuel to keep a steady air/fuel ratio to keep from causing engine damage. Cars like 1.8T VW/Audis, 2.0 S/C Cobalts/Redlines are designed to read above atmospheric pressure and stock are able to send a certain amount of fuel per load.

Cobalt_Supercharged

um yeah, what he said. For a boosted manual trans application I would attempt the LSJ PCM. For an N/A situation I would try the LE5 PCM. I would think someone would be ready to crack the L61 PCM sooner or later. I'm suprised it hasn't happened yet.

NJHK

Honestly, with all this work someone would put into switching computers and changing harnesses and wiring and bla bla bla, why not just get an standalone unit like megasquirt? You'd have all the control you'd want instead of switching from stock to stock. Makes more sense to me.

Also, switching to a 2.4s PCM wouldn't help anything at all if you were staying n/a or not...the 2.4s PCM isn't more friendlier than yours. Remember, the 2.4 has more power cause of it's motor, not cause of it's PCM. Also, the 2.4s PCM is designed to control the VVT system, so I don't know what good or what problems you would face with that feature not working.

NJHK

You make it sound much easier than it is. Just use a $ figure for parts (HP Tuners, another PCM + Wiring harness) and labor (paying someone to re-wire up your computer system) vs. your gains and positive outcome of doing so.

It's not worth it.

Buy a standalone. No point of going from stock to stock, especially if it's not a "direct swap" kind of situation.

celicacobalt

well i thought you cant go stand alone since it would disable alot of the other working parts of the car which is why i suggested this idea, all im saying is if someone is eager enough to be turboed or highly tuned then the 2.4 and the 2.0 have those capabilities and it might be worth a shot. if we could go stand alone someone would have done it by now.

Clmbngfrk18

i doubt hp tuners can turn vvt off maybe adjust it but not remove it and the tranny is controled by a seperate computer i belive if i remeber righ hp tuners can control the tranny but not the ecu your better off waiting for hp tuners to be released

biniecki

I was talking to a guy at a carshow yesterday and he was saying something about being able to swap ecu's with a saab. He said that there are some 2.0 guys doing it and that it should work for the 2.2 as well. He didnt really give much info. A guy from here named seth also talked to him maybe he will chime in on this

Clmbngfrk18

will swapping ecu's cause any problems when i go in for a state inspection my state scans the car to check emissions will it bring up the wrong vin # or any othe problems

Halfcent

Allow me to help some of the confusion. Remember that these are in fact just computers. You can change the operating system, just like linux versus windows. The OS for the E16 in the L61 cobalts is a one bar system. A product like HP tuners has the ability to modify the OS to make it a two bar system. So boost really has nothing to do with it. However, transmission control does. The LSJ computer has no transmission control functions. The LE5 and L61 automatics interface with a separate trans control module. That is why I suggested the LE5 module would be better. It has trans support, and can be upgraded to a 2 bar MAP system by HP Tuners.

Cobalt_Supercharged

The only reasonI suggested the 2.4 PCM was because of the auto trans. I guess I for got to mention that in my post.

I agree it is more time and hassle than it is really worth. I would just wait and see if HPT or someone else is gonna do something with the L61 PCM. With all the talks of turbo setups you would think they would havesomething ready by now.

NJHK

Sounds like he was just talking to be talking. It doesn't sound logical for someone with a 2.0 SS/SC to switch their computers with Saab even if it was possible. Also, if he's telling you 2.0 SC guys are doing it than it would work for a 2.2 being as they are completely different harnesses. He's making it sound like a "plug and play" kind of thing.

NJHK

Gotcha.

Well the 2.4 has a promising future, just not sure about the 2.2

NJHK

I believe most just check for check engine lights and seeing if you're carb legal, not the VIN #s.

NJHK

Actually the opposite.

Standalones allow you manipulate while having everything look normal. There are different type of standalones. There are standalones that allow you to control your fuel and ignition timing...not exactly sure on how so with controlling the ignition system but I know controlling the fuel, you're wiring up to the fuel injectors and taking that control away from the computer cause what happends is that the computer runs lean cause it doesn't know what to do when you're supplying so much air (example: boost), so now you have control over the injectors via laptop and you can alter it and of course you can use bigger injectors.

With an AEM EMS, it's a full out Replacement computer system that hooks into all of your sensors etc etc like your OEM computer would do but you have full control capabilities of it via laptop. This is a much more expensive and heavy duty kind of merchandise to buy...you usually see like the high powered EVO guys or 800 HP Supra guys running AEM EMS's, especially cause they have them pre-programmed for the Supras.

Halfcent

As I have said many times before, the problem with a stand alone ECM on the Cobalt is that the Cobalts ECM controls functions other then just engine fuel and timing. There is a degree of intergration involved. Yes, you can use a stand alone, but then several other functions of your car become inoperative, including cruise control, power steering and your instrument cluster.

NJHK

Maybe with something like AEM EMS but I don't think someone would run into that issue with something like Megasquirt being that you're not totally overriding what the computer controls.

REIGN SS

sweet so ill have more fuel & better tuning but i wont know when to shift or how fast im going... so unless i buy separate gauges and hook em up individualy you driving blind & have no power steering and i assume antilock brakes?

8cd03gro

short answer = no. Not without using way more money than it is worth.

IonNinja

if you use Megasquirt your stock ECU still stays in place and it(megasquirt) can been used as an EIC or more if you wish.