2.2 turbo question
06-30-2008, 11:43 PM
#28
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lol oh nice one.
oh i had my car done before ANYONE got to see it, i pareked it saturday night ordered parts on monday morning got off work at 6pm worked till 11pm and it was done
frame is stright, bumper support bar brakets are screwed in this tim, not welded for easy removal when bosting and needing to get in there.
oh i had my car done before ANYONE got to see it, i pareked it saturday night ordered parts on monday morning got off work at 6pm worked till 11pm and it was done
frame is stright, bumper support bar brakets are screwed in this tim, not welded for easy removal when bosting and needing to get in there.
07-01-2008, 01:20 AM
#29
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What turbo do you have if you say its "starts" at 280whp. That would mean your compressor surge line is right around 33 lb/min. Thats a big turbo, way more then you will need. Even the GT35 can run on low boost and make easily 250whp. And you will not make 320whp on the 2.2 with 6psi of boost. Your looking around 15-18 on a decent turbo like an Precision SC50 which is good for 450bhp(roughly 50lb/min airflow).
Id love to see you make some good power like i plan on doing, but from the way your talking it doesnt sound like you really know what your doing man. Please prove me wrong!
Id love to see you make some good power like i plan on doing, but from the way your talking it doesnt sound like you really know what your doing man. Please prove me wrong!
07-01-2008, 07:56 AM
#30
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What turbo do you have if you say its "starts" at 280whp. That would mean your compressor surge line is right around 33 lb/min. Thats a big turbo, way more then you will need. Even the GT35 can run on low boost and make easily 250whp. And you will not make 320whp on the 2.2 with 6psi of boost. Your looking around 15-18 on a decent turbo like an Precision SC50 which is good for 450bhp(roughly 50lb/min airflow).
Id love to see you make some good power like i plan on doing, but from the way your talking it doesnt sound like you really know what your doing man. Please prove me wrong!
Id love to see you make some good power like i plan on doing, but from the way your talking it doesnt sound like you really know what your doing man. Please prove me wrong!
But I just got into turbos so I did not say anything, but could not find a spec sheet for the GT2871R last night on google. I was searching wrong and gave up.
Was too early in the morning.
07-01-2008, 08:29 AM
#31
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yea the turbo i bought is a GT2871R WD 49.2, A/R .86
the chart for the trubo i bought says good from 280HP to 500 HP
its the biggest turbo in the 28 series with the internal wastegate, next year i am going to the gt35
the chart for the trubo i bought says good from 280HP to 500 HP
its the biggest turbo in the 28 series with the internal wastegate, next year i am going to the gt35
07-01-2008, 11:58 AM
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I've got the GT2871R compressor map up right here on my work machine. It will flow max 45lb/min which is just a little over 400bhp worth of air but thats not very efficient. Heres the max i'd push that turbo in the following conditions. Mind you this is all basic turbo calculations...
Max RPM: 7000
AFR: 11.5
HP: 380
Engine Size: 2.2 Ltr
At those conditions you start to push that turbo out of its efficeincy. I wouldnt go any further then 380bhp on the GT2871R. And at Sea Level your looking at a PSIg of about 23.
Why dont you go right in between and go with a GT3071R. Its got the compact fit of the GT28 and the flow close to a GT35. Its good for 475bhp and the SRT4 guys get full spool by 3500-3800rpms. I have found that to be the best all around turbo for our cars. I was originally going to buy it but have decided to go for a EvoIII 16G because of the price and my power goals wont exceed 380whp, which is easily attainable on it.
Max RPM: 7000
AFR: 11.5
HP: 380
Engine Size: 2.2 Ltr
At those conditions you start to push that turbo out of its efficeincy. I wouldnt go any further then 380bhp on the GT2871R. And at Sea Level your looking at a PSIg of about 23.
Why dont you go right in between and go with a GT3071R. Its got the compact fit of the GT28 and the flow close to a GT35. Its good for 475bhp and the SRT4 guys get full spool by 3500-3800rpms. I have found that to be the best all around turbo for our cars. I was originally going to buy it but have decided to go for a EvoIII 16G because of the price and my power goals wont exceed 380whp, which is easily attainable on it.
Last edited by Sw4y1313; 07-01-2008 at 11:58 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
07-01-2008, 06:06 PM
#34
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Turn the boost ALL the way down and dyno it that is your starting point. Get some nitrous to help with turbo lag.
07-01-2008, 06:10 PM
#35
I'm old school
Oh dear... Look what we have here....
Okay, first, Hi, my name is Geoff, and I've been here a long time.
Lets get real for a moment. You can not open the GMPP catalog and start pointing at parts and thinking that you are going to get over 300 HP out of it. It just doesn't work that way. There are so many more factors going on here that I can clearly tell from your posts you are not considering.
Okay, lets start simple. Are you familiar with the Garrett turbo kit for the Cobalt? It runs a GT28 and makes 200 HP at 8psi. Now this is a gross over-simplification, but you are not going to get 350 out of 6psi.
I'm going to guess you read the Ecotec article published in 2003 called the "Birth of an Import Killer", right? Yeah, you can't do half the stuff they did to a street legal car. You hung an intercooler on your car without connecting it to anything. It was just there for show.
You have a 2007. That means you have a completely different L61 engine and E37 ECM unit then any of the older Cobalts or Cavaliers. The parts and programming are different. Most of the GMPP stuff in that catalog won't work on your car. The flash programmers that are available don't support your car.
I know, I'm a kill joy. But I know what I'm talking about. I in fact have a fully built powertrain. I pulled the engine and transmission out and did all of the supporting power modifications and talked with people directly from Garrett and Hahn and HP Tuners.
Is it possible? Yes. But you need a lot more then what you've got right now. Let me point you in the right direction.
First, get real about your goals. You could for instance buy the Garrett tuner kit for $3200, and then get in touch with Trifecta about making a tune for you. That will probably run you $500. That's just the parts mind you. Now you have to install it. So for around $4000 you get a street legal 200 HP.
And that is just to get a complete, working, no frills kit.
Now say you're serious about 350 HP. Okay, now you get the Hahn Super 20G system and again a tune from Trifecta. It's not too much more, maybe about $5000 now. But lets see what else you are going to need...
exhaust (downpipe back) - $800
built engine - $1500 in parts, $1000 in labor if you don't do it yourself
Okay, now the kit will work without breaking anything. Now your at $8300. Oh, you might need axles, suspension, wheels, tires, brakes, did I even talk about the transmission yet?
Slow down skippy. You have some research to do.
Okay, first, Hi, my name is Geoff, and I've been here a long time.
Lets get real for a moment. You can not open the GMPP catalog and start pointing at parts and thinking that you are going to get over 300 HP out of it. It just doesn't work that way. There are so many more factors going on here that I can clearly tell from your posts you are not considering.
Okay, lets start simple. Are you familiar with the Garrett turbo kit for the Cobalt? It runs a GT28 and makes 200 HP at 8psi. Now this is a gross over-simplification, but you are not going to get 350 out of 6psi.
I'm going to guess you read the Ecotec article published in 2003 called the "Birth of an Import Killer", right? Yeah, you can't do half the stuff they did to a street legal car. You hung an intercooler on your car without connecting it to anything. It was just there for show.
You have a 2007. That means you have a completely different L61 engine and E37 ECM unit then any of the older Cobalts or Cavaliers. The parts and programming are different. Most of the GMPP stuff in that catalog won't work on your car. The flash programmers that are available don't support your car.
I know, I'm a kill joy. But I know what I'm talking about. I in fact have a fully built powertrain. I pulled the engine and transmission out and did all of the supporting power modifications and talked with people directly from Garrett and Hahn and HP Tuners.
Is it possible? Yes. But you need a lot more then what you've got right now. Let me point you in the right direction.
First, get real about your goals. You could for instance buy the Garrett tuner kit for $3200, and then get in touch with Trifecta about making a tune for you. That will probably run you $500. That's just the parts mind you. Now you have to install it. So for around $4000 you get a street legal 200 HP.
And that is just to get a complete, working, no frills kit.
Now say you're serious about 350 HP. Okay, now you get the Hahn Super 20G system and again a tune from Trifecta. It's not too much more, maybe about $5000 now. But lets see what else you are going to need...
exhaust (downpipe back) - $800
built engine - $1500 in parts, $1000 in labor if you don't do it yourself
Okay, now the kit will work without breaking anything. Now your at $8300. Oh, you might need axles, suspension, wheels, tires, brakes, did I even talk about the transmission yet?
Slow down skippy. You have some research to do.
Last edited by Halfcent; 07-02-2008 at 06:29 PM.
07-01-2008, 06:23 PM
#36
^^^^kill joy 
let the man dream lol...but what he says is true...anything past what GM rates a stock engine to handle is going to start consting you loads of money, stay below 220WHP if you wanna be safe, hell 230whp is you wanna be a risk taker, anymore and ill start counting the days your car stayed running
let the man dream lol...but what he says is true...anything past what GM rates a stock engine to handle is going to start consting you loads of money, stay below 220WHP if you wanna be safe, hell 230whp is you wanna be a risk taker, anymore and ill start counting the days your car stayed running
07-01-2008, 06:24 PM
#37
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Geoff you did more than kill joy. You probably hurt his dreams.
But to the OP welcome to the club.
I look forward to building my MX6 when I get back. But honestly 10K will only be just touching the surface. Not going to get into all of that as I will surprise everyone. And those who pull beside me.
But to the OP welcome to the club.
I look forward to building my MX6 when I get back. But honestly 10K will only be just touching the surface. Not going to get into all of that as I will surprise everyone. And those who pull beside me.
07-01-2008, 06:26 PM
#38
my turbo starts at 280 whp so im screwed either way lol
if i blow it then oh well, i am buying the 2.2 raceblock thats sleeved and i have ARP main studs, and Head studs, i got Eagle H beams, and Wisco pistons on order. the only way im gonna buy the sleved block is if i blow mine, if not and it holds till winter then i will just instal on this motor but if i blow it then i am going sleved and looking at 450-550 whp, i know people may think wow high numbers but its worth it.
i have in the GM perfomance catalog Cams, and i know they have cams for the 2.2 cause there is a 2.2 drag balt with 1,400 WHP pretty sure its the summit racing one.
anyways guys thanks for the help, i will keep you up to day with photos and whats up as i go
if i blow it then oh well, i am buying the 2.2 raceblock thats sleeved and i have ARP main studs, and Head studs, i got Eagle H beams, and Wisco pistons on order. the only way im gonna buy the sleved block is if i blow mine, if not and it holds till winter then i will just instal on this motor but if i blow it then i am going sleved and looking at 450-550 whp, i know people may think wow high numbers but its worth it.
i have in the GM perfomance catalog Cams, and i know they have cams for the 2.2 cause there is a 2.2 drag balt with 1,400 WHP pretty sure its the summit racing one.
anyways guys thanks for the help, i will keep you up to day with photos and whats up as i go
I would recommend building the engine up before pushing it any higher than that, but of course I should listen to my own advice (see sig)
07-01-2008, 06:42 PM
#39
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About the Cam Position Sensor.....here is the run down about that....
It was added to the motor to be make the motor more efficient to comply with new emissions laws and minimum gas mileage requirements (yes there is such a thing, every car maker is required to have a certain percentage of models available to have a minimum gas mileage rating, i don't recall what 07's was, but i know it's about to goto 32mpg this year)....Along with the addition to the 32 bit ECU (as opposed by the 16 bit ECU in previous model years) the Cam Position Sensor was added because that allows the computer to take or add timing based on different driving conditions...hence why it took so long for tuning to be available....
also for those who haven't noticed...the L61 motor got a 3HP gain over previous model years because of the additions made to the computer and sensors....with the ability to adjust more things in the motor, GM was able to squeeze just a bit more performance and better gas mileage together...
It was added to the motor to be make the motor more efficient to comply with new emissions laws and minimum gas mileage requirements (yes there is such a thing, every car maker is required to have a certain percentage of models available to have a minimum gas mileage rating, i don't recall what 07's was, but i know it's about to goto 32mpg this year)....Along with the addition to the 32 bit ECU (as opposed by the 16 bit ECU in previous model years) the Cam Position Sensor was added because that allows the computer to take or add timing based on different driving conditions...hence why it took so long for tuning to be available....
also for those who haven't noticed...the L61 motor got a 3HP gain over previous model years because of the additions made to the computer and sensors....with the ability to adjust more things in the motor, GM was able to squeeze just a bit more performance and better gas mileage together...
07-01-2008, 07:43 PM
#40
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Oh dear... Look what we have here....
Okay, first, Hi, my name is Geoff, and I've been here a long time.
Lets get real for a moment. You can not open the GMPP catalog and start pointing at parts and thinking that you are going to get over 300 HP out of it. It just doesn't work that way. There are so many more factor going on here that I can clearly tell from your posts you are not considering.
Okay, lets start simple. Are you familiar with the Garrett turbo kit for the Cobalt? It runs a GT28 and makes 200 HP at 8psi. Now this is a gross over-simplification, but you are not going to get 350 out of 6psi.
I'm going to guess you read the Ecotec article published in 2003 called the "Birth of an Import Killer", right? Yeah, you can't do half the stuff they did to a street legal car. You hung an intercooler on your car without connecting it to anything. It was just there for show.
You have a 2007. That means you have a completely different L61 engine and E37 ECM unit then any of the older Cobalts or Cavaliers. The parts and programming are different. Most of the GMPP stuff in that catalog won't work on your car. The flash programmers that are available don't support your car.
I know, I'm a kill joy. But I know what I'm talking about. I in fact have a fully powertrain. I pulled the engine and transmission out and did all of the supporting power modifications and talked with people directly from Garrett and Hahn and HP Tuners.
Is it possible? Yes. But you need a lot more then what you've got right now. Let me point you in the right direction.
First, get real about your goals. You could for instance buy the Garrett tuner kit for $3200, and then get in touch with Trifecta about making a tune for you. That will probably run you $500. That's just the parts mind you. Now you have to install it. So far around $4000, you get a street legal 200 HP.
And that is just to get a complete, working, no frills kit.
Now say you're serious about 350 HP. Okay, now you get the Hahn Super 20G system and again a tune from Trifecta. It's not too much more, maybe about $5000 grand now. But lets see what else you are going to need...
exhaust (downpipe back) - $800
built engine - $1500 in parts, $1000 in labor if you don't do it yourself
Okay, now the kit will work without breaking anything. Now your at $8300. Oh, you might need axles, suspension, wheels, tires, brakes, did I even talk about the transmission yet?
Slow down skippy. You have some research to do.
Okay, first, Hi, my name is Geoff, and I've been here a long time.
Lets get real for a moment. You can not open the GMPP catalog and start pointing at parts and thinking that you are going to get over 300 HP out of it. It just doesn't work that way. There are so many more factor going on here that I can clearly tell from your posts you are not considering.
Okay, lets start simple. Are you familiar with the Garrett turbo kit for the Cobalt? It runs a GT28 and makes 200 HP at 8psi. Now this is a gross over-simplification, but you are not going to get 350 out of 6psi.
I'm going to guess you read the Ecotec article published in 2003 called the "Birth of an Import Killer", right? Yeah, you can't do half the stuff they did to a street legal car. You hung an intercooler on your car without connecting it to anything. It was just there for show.
You have a 2007. That means you have a completely different L61 engine and E37 ECM unit then any of the older Cobalts or Cavaliers. The parts and programming are different. Most of the GMPP stuff in that catalog won't work on your car. The flash programmers that are available don't support your car.
I know, I'm a kill joy. But I know what I'm talking about. I in fact have a fully powertrain. I pulled the engine and transmission out and did all of the supporting power modifications and talked with people directly from Garrett and Hahn and HP Tuners.
Is it possible? Yes. But you need a lot more then what you've got right now. Let me point you in the right direction.
First, get real about your goals. You could for instance buy the Garrett tuner kit for $3200, and then get in touch with Trifecta about making a tune for you. That will probably run you $500. That's just the parts mind you. Now you have to install it. So far around $4000, you get a street legal 200 HP.
And that is just to get a complete, working, no frills kit.
Now say you're serious about 350 HP. Okay, now you get the Hahn Super 20G system and again a tune from Trifecta. It's not too much more, maybe about $5000 grand now. But lets see what else you are going to need...
exhaust (downpipe back) - $800
built engine - $1500 in parts, $1000 in labor if you don't do it yourself
Okay, now the kit will work without breaking anything. Now your at $8300. Oh, you might need axles, suspension, wheels, tires, brakes, did I even talk about the transmission yet?
Slow down skippy. You have some research to do.
You seem to know your **** man, very good. What mods do you have done and what year and model is your Cobalt? I live in Clarksville man, right down the road from you.
About the Cam Position Sensor.....here is the run down about that....
It was added to the motor to be make the motor more efficient to comply with new emissions laws and minimum gas mileage requirements (yes there is such a thing, every car maker is required to have a certain percentage of models available to have a minimum gas mileage rating, i don't recall what 07's was, but i know it's about to goto 32mpg this year)....Along with the addition to the 32 bit ECU (as opposed by the 16 bit ECU in previous model years) the Cam Position Sensor was added because that allows the computer to take or add timing based on different driving conditions...hence why it took so long for tuning to be available....
also for those who haven't noticed...the L61 motor got a 3HP gain over previous model years because of the additions made to the computer and sensors....with the ability to adjust more things in the motor, GM was able to squeeze just a bit more performance and better gas mileage together...
It was added to the motor to be make the motor more efficient to comply with new emissions laws and minimum gas mileage requirements (yes there is such a thing, every car maker is required to have a certain percentage of models available to have a minimum gas mileage rating, i don't recall what 07's was, but i know it's about to goto 32mpg this year)....Along with the addition to the 32 bit ECU (as opposed by the 16 bit ECU in previous model years) the Cam Position Sensor was added because that allows the computer to take or add timing based on different driving conditions...hence why it took so long for tuning to be available....
also for those who haven't noticed...the L61 motor got a 3HP gain over previous model years because of the additions made to the computer and sensors....with the ability to adjust more things in the motor, GM was able to squeeze just a bit more performance and better gas mileage together...
You think aftermarket cams and heads with be available soon? I'm looking to possibly get a Cobalt soon, just not sure if I want an 06 or 07-08.
Last edited by FutureEcotecOwner; 07-01-2008 at 07:43 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
07-01-2008, 10:07 PM
#42
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What is SAI? That is what I wanted, but to be honest, I was looking for a N/A build. That would be all I would want for awhile, then I would wanna go turbo. But I would need aftermarket heads and cams available, along with other bolt ons. That is why I was debating between an 04-05 Cavalier, or a Cobalt.
07-01-2008, 10:34 PM
#44
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Guess I'll be going with an 06 or a Cavalier.
07-02-2008, 05:29 AM
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whoa...hold on a minute....SAI or secondary air injection is only on the cars that are governed under the california emissions laws act. Not all 2007 Models have SAI....for instance...i have a 2007...Bought it brand new...it doesn't have SAI...ONLY THE ONES WITH CALI EMISSIONS HAVE THEM.....
yeah i don't see why cams won't be available....if you want i can make some calls today and find out
yeah i don't see why cams won't be available....if you want i can make some calls today and find out
07-02-2008, 09:12 AM
#47
Senior Member
thats the single greatest quote of ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL time.
your on the mental level of a 6 or 7 year old with this thought process. you turbo build will go far
well ****, that means you must be making at least 280hp then huh!!! ::killself::
i'd love to see you slap a 35r on your hack ass "idea" build here....with your expertises you'll end up with a .88, or a 1.40 AR exhaust housing...yup, that'll spool.
please continue on with this, its my new favorite thread laugh at.
dear god, say it aint so!
an educated 2.2 owner.....wow, its good to know the name of the only one in existence.
you sir, are part of a rare breed.
your on the mental level of a 6 or 7 year old with this thought process. you turbo build will go far
"the chart for the trubo i bought says good from 280HP to 500 HP"
i'd love to see you slap a 35r on your hack ass "idea" build here....with your expertises you'll end up with a .88, or a 1.40 AR exhaust housing...yup, that'll spool.
please continue on with this, its my new favorite thread laugh at.
whoa...hold on a minute....SAI or secondary air injection is only on the cars that are governed under the california emissions laws act. Not all 2007 Models have SAI....for instance...i have a 2007...Bought it brand new...it doesn't have SAI...ONLY THE ONES WITH CALI EMISSIONS HAVE THEM.....
yeah i don't see why cams won't be available....if you want i can make some calls today and find out
yeah i don't see why cams won't be available....if you want i can make some calls today and find out
an educated 2.2 owner.....wow, its good to know the name of the only one in existence.
you sir, are part of a rare breed.
Last edited by 06black; 07-02-2008 at 09:12 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
