06black

most any one can fallow and quote the build book........

06blackg85ss

iTrader: (1)

^speaks the truth

FutureEcotecOwner

I really rather have an 07 or 08, but I dont wanna have to mess with that cam sensor.

mrsilent13

yea i just blew mine but it was a tuning problem...its now for sale.....with a good tune.....for only 8000 check out my sig for the thread

Halfcent

Okay, a few more posts are up since my last visit...

First, SAI. Go read this --> https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/2-2l-l61-performance-tech-45/secondary-air-injection-late-production-2006-l61s-38488/

Its a great big sticky thread right at the top of the 2.2L performance forum that I wrote. It is an option only that came around the middle of the 2006 model year. There are still cars since then that don't have it. So if you want to get a 2008 without it, fine, go ahead, no problem.

The 2007 model L61 engine changes where to the head and exhaust cam. The cam has a slightly different profile, the head has slightly different ports, and of course there is the cam position sensor, which did away with the Waste-Spark ignition system in favor of a COP system. The extra power comes from those changes, not some magically different ECM program.

There is no flash tuner program available for either the 05-06 engines OR the 07 and later engines. Trifecta apparently can do BOTH. So if you want to be sure it's something they can tune, call them and ask. That way you can buy the newer car if you want. For the love of God, don't get a Cavalier. Seriously.

**** you. Seriously. You posted in here basically just to hear the sound of your own voice. Arrogant *****. Why don't you try helping the OP out instead of insulting him for not knowing as much as your all-knowing brain.

FutureEcotecOwner

What's wrong with the Cavalier? Plenty of support from tuners, engine internals, forced induction and the whole nine yards. It's also lighter and can be had for under 6k. I want an 07 or 08 Cobalt LT, but if I cant find one I like or with a manual, I'm gonna go with an 04 or 05 Cavalier.

Halfcent

The Cavalier is 1993 technology. The chassis, suspension, electrical systems, countless other items are far superior on the Delta platforms.

The late model Cav's have a PCM that is supported by HPT. No others that I know of, so I'm not sure what you mean by "plenty". But if Trifecta can do what they say they can, there is no reason to get a Cavalier.

All of the engine internals can still be used on the newer L61's except for cams. And honestly, the adjustable cam gears are better then replacing the cams.

There are two complete forced induction kits for the 05-06 Cobalts right now. Go read this:

https://www.cobaltss.net/forums/2-2l-l61-performance-tech-45/l61-turbo-super-forced-induction-information-thread-26325/

I can't argue the cheaper price. That's obvious since it's an older car. But you can easily find a manual trans on a Cobalt.

FutureEcotecOwner

I'm just saying, the Cavalier has been around since 02 with the Ecotec, and HPtuners can tune for almost anything. And how are adjustable cam gears better than aftermarket cams? The power and torque you get from the stage 2's and the lope, who wouldnt want some aftermarket cams? I know I want them, and that is the main reason why I dont want an 07 or 08 Cobalt. After searching at like 10 dealers here in my City and searching autotrader.com, I have found 1 or 2 Cobalts with a manual, 0 here in my immediate City and the 1 or 2 in Nashville or around Nashville. Now I'm sure there are some there that arent listed on the internet on autotrader or cars.com, which is why I'm going to Nashville this coming Sunday to look. So like I said, its gonna be an 06 Cobalt, or an 04-05 Cavalier. Hell if I can find an SS/SC with low miles for under 16k, than I might just get that.

FacelessKhaos

alright...yes the ECU was programmed different...i didn't say that was the only change...the 07 Year Model switched ECU platforms as you know...from the 16 Bit Platform to the 32 Bit Platform....

Trifecta can FLASH TUNE 05-07 COBALTS....L61/LE5 and LSJ in the Redline Ions....i should know this...if everything works well..i will be an east coast distributor for Trifecta. In my other posts about it, i have explained what the tune is able to do and i have also posted dyno sheets. These tunes are Dyno Proven and tested. They work and are good.

Cavalier comment....agreed...

FutureEcotecOwner

So with all that being said, would you go for the 06 Cobalt or the 07 Cobalt? You guys think within the next year or 2 they will have cams available for the 07's or 08's?

Spanky's Monkey

iTrader: (6)

owned!

Halfcent

Even if they don't, I would still suggest getting the newer car for three reasons. First, the adjustable cam gears work on it. And that is an infinite level of adjustability. Just a cam without the adjustable gears means you are stuck with that cam now. And further, cams are really not that necessary, especially if you are going forced induction, but the ability to adjust their timing is. Second, the COP ignition is a more tuner-friendly engine. Third, if you still really must change your cams, then you can get your existing one re-ground. Yes, that is possible.

Don't misunderstand. I was saying there is no end-user, flash tuning program for either the E16 or E37. Then I went on to say that Trifecta can do it, but was trying to point out that they don't give the user a program to tune with. Instead, they make the tune and then send it to you to upload.

FutureEcotecOwner

Do adjustable cam gears give you any power? And do you get a lope? I'm not looking into F/I, I'm looking for a N/A build for now, then a couple years down the road go turbo. How is the COP ignition more tuner friendly when there is only 1 tuner out there now that will tune the 07? Getting it re-ground takes alot more time and I'm sure it costs alot more.

Halfcent

If you plan to go turbo even as far away as a couple of years, don't bother with changing cams. Because whatever N/A cam you get will then not help you once you go F/I.

Using the adjustable gears for a N/A car will not help. They help tremendously on a F/I car.

The cam lobes (not lopes) cost for grinding would probably be the same whether you are regrinding an existing cam or grinding a blank cam. And probably cost less then buying a completely different set of cams.

Let me say that it seems you are bit hung up on the cam issue. It's really not that important in your N/A plans, especially if you plan to change to F/I later.

COP ignition is a bit more friendly due to the design compared to waste spark. It doesn't have anything to do with Trifecta's tuning ability or their software. It has to do with that cam position sensor. The 07-up L61 has a 53x reluctor ring on the crank and 4x cam position sensor. The earlier L61's had a 4x reluctor on the crank and sensed cam position based on the wasted spark impedance. I know, I know, very technical jargon crap. But simply put, making ignition and fuel injection timing adjustments is easier. Now since Trifecta will be doing all of those adjustments for you, you really don't have to worry about it too much. But if we ever get our own end-user tuning software, you'll appreciate the COP system better.

FutureEcotecOwner

I know its cam lobes, but as far as I'm concerned the noise the cam/cams make at idle is "loping". I have no problem spending the money on N/A cams now and 2 to 3 years down the road buying some turbo cams. I've been studying and researching the Ecotec engine for like 5 years ever since I had the 2.2 Ecotec in my 03 Alero. **** is just easier with the J bodies and N bodies compared to the new Cobalts. And I'm guessing you have an 07 Cobalt?

Halfcent

No, I have a 2005. And what makes you think it's easier in the older cars? It's the same engine. Do you mean the tuning? Because using a program like HPT require a tremendous amount of knowledge. Having Trifecta make you a tune would probably be a lot less hassle actually.

FutureEcotecOwner

I'm just saying having an 03-05 Cavalier would probably be easier to modify and tune than the Cobalt. Just too many new things to get used to and then you have some companies supporting certain years and not others. Its just too much hassle. I figured you had an 07 since in your last post you said, "But if we ever get our own end-user tuning software, you'll appreciate the COP system better", so I figured you were meaning you had an 07 or 08.

Halfcent

Ya know, if you haven't already bought the car, have you looked at getting an LE5? That would be an excellent tuner car. Its the one thing I would have done differently.

Sw4y1313

Hey halfcent, isnt it 60-2(aka 58X) on the 07+(including the LSJ's) and 7X on us prior year L61's? About the crank sensor reluctor rings that is.

I agree with that 100% man.. I wish i had gotten the LE5. its got the displacement and stout internals for a nice turbo build.

Area47

seriously? we get banned for that, and you get away with it?

FutureEcotecOwner

I seriously havent seen any of them around here for sale, but like I said, I'm heading to Nashville on Sunday to check out some dealers.

Halfcent

Yeah, your right. I didn't feel like looking it up at the time. Nice catch.

No, the person I was talking to, known as the "instigator" is the one that normally gets banned for that. He should be thankful I all I did was give him a tongue lashing instead of an infraction. And you should know better too as long as you have been here.

bridfi

comp cams has 07 cams...

its just a little longer cam, like an extra 3-5 inches or so, and the wheel that the sensor reads is pressed on.

i think when people see "cam position sensor" they say OMG that sounds important,, i dont wanna F around with that.. just think of it as a longer intake cam, with a wheel pressed on that has certain little pieces and whatnot that tell the sensor where the cam is at (very accurately)