2.2L build update
07-11-2007, 03:57 PM
#77
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 07-15-06
Location: Pocomoke City, MD
Posts: 3,765
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
also, the claim about 7psi being equal to 18psi on others. PSI doesnt matter. Its the amount of air thats flowed. 7psi on a large turbo can flow the same as 18psi on another. All they are saying is they are running a massive turbo that is about 10 feet away from your engine. Large turbos have more lag mounted directly to the manifold, then on top of that having it 10 feet down the exhaust? Just doesnt make sense in my mind. Its a waste of piping, a waste of fabrication time, and your exposing a very expensive item to outside elements.
Another thing to consider is what if you get hit from behind? Even if they bump you and it hits your muffler, it could easily damage the turbo, doesnt matter how high or low its sitting there. I dunno about you, but i've lived all over the country, and most drivers are retarded. i've been hit 4 times from behind in just one car within a 1 year period. Im even sketchy about putting a body kit on my car for said reasons.
All we are saying is that the rear mount setup puts your $3000 investment into a much higher risk. Remember, you get what you pay for. Yes, you may save $700, but you have a much higher risk of spending more money down the road.
Another thing to consider is what if you get hit from behind? Even if they bump you and it hits your muffler, it could easily damage the turbo, doesnt matter how high or low its sitting there. I dunno about you, but i've lived all over the country, and most drivers are retarded. i've been hit 4 times from behind in just one car within a 1 year period. Im even sketchy about putting a body kit on my car for said reasons.
All we are saying is that the rear mount setup puts your $3000 investment into a much higher risk. Remember, you get what you pay for. Yes, you may save $700, but you have a much higher risk of spending more money down the road.
not saying that 10 seconds is my goal, just using that as an example about how much consern i have for safety vs power
Last edited by xCobalt05x; 07-11-2007 at 03:57 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
07-11-2007, 04:06 PM
#79
New Member
Join Date: 09-28-06
Location: Providence, RI
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i never post here but just reading your posts says to me "you don't wtf you're talking about."
a Turbo placed further away from the engine doesn't mean that it's going to "push as much power as a traditional mount turbo pushing 18 psi"
yes the turbo is going to stay cool but I've seen the STS turbo kit on a corvette in real life and the oil return line was reallllly low and if that fitting got knicked then i can see that being a real problem, and you wouldn't know because it'll be dripping right onto the road.
What's going to matter is the size of the turbine blades and the model of the turbos.
Learn to read a compressor map, It'll show you what PSI each turbo will flow the most amount of air..aka "the sweet spot"
kthx
a Turbo placed further away from the engine doesn't mean that it's going to "push as much power as a traditional mount turbo pushing 18 psi"
yes the turbo is going to stay cool but I've seen the STS turbo kit on a corvette in real life and the oil return line was reallllly low and if that fitting got knicked then i can see that being a real problem, and you wouldn't know because it'll be dripping right onto the road.
What's going to matter is the size of the turbine blades and the model of the turbos.
Learn to read a compressor map, It'll show you what PSI each turbo will flow the most amount of air..aka "the sweet spot"
kthx
07-11-2007, 04:13 PM
#80
Senior Member
im more into the power then the safety, if i blow my engine up doing a 10 second pass on the track, then thats all the worth while i need is to say i have a 10 second 2.2 eco, that is my only consern
not saying that 10 seconds is my goal, just using that as an example about how much consern i have for safety vs power
not saying that 10 seconds is my goal, just using that as an example about how much consern i have for safety vs power
Last edited by NJHK; 07-11-2007 at 04:13 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
07-11-2007, 04:14 PM
#81
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 07-15-06
Location: Pocomoke City, MD
Posts: 3,765
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
as a matter of fact it has, why you think i rebuilt the engine, had to dump 5.4k into it to get it working again. just had them rebuild it with what i wanted it built with rather then just fix the stock stuff
07-11-2007, 04:14 PM
#82
Senior Member
i never post here but just reading your posts says to me "you don't wtf you're talking about."
a Turbo placed further away from the engine doesn't mean that it's going to "push as much power as a traditional mount turbo pushing 18 psi"
yes the turbo is going to stay cool but I've seen the STS turbo kit on a corvette in real life and the oil return line was reallllly low and if that fitting got knicked then i can see that being a real problem, and you wouldn't know because it'll be dripping right onto the road.
What's going to matter is the size of the turbine blades and the model of the turbos.
Learn to read a compressor map, It'll show you what PSI each turbo will flow the most amount of air..aka "the sweet spot"
kthx
a Turbo placed further away from the engine doesn't mean that it's going to "push as much power as a traditional mount turbo pushing 18 psi"
yes the turbo is going to stay cool but I've seen the STS turbo kit on a corvette in real life and the oil return line was reallllly low and if that fitting got knicked then i can see that being a real problem, and you wouldn't know because it'll be dripping right onto the road.
What's going to matter is the size of the turbine blades and the model of the turbos.
Learn to read a compressor map, It'll show you what PSI each turbo will flow the most amount of air..aka "the sweet spot"
kthx
07-11-2007, 04:15 PM
#83
i never post here but just reading your posts says to me "you don't wtf you're talking about."
a Turbo placed further away from the engine doesn't mean that it's going to "push as much power as a traditional mount turbo pushing 18 psi"
yes the turbo is going to stay cool but I've seen the STS turbo kit on a corvette in real life and the oil return line was reallllly low and if that fitting got knicked then i can see that being a real problem, and you wouldn't know because it'll be dripping right onto the road.
What's going to matter is the size of the turbine blades and the model of the turbos.
Learn to read a compressor map, It'll show you what PSI each turbo will flow the most amount of air..aka "the sweet spot"
kthx
a Turbo placed further away from the engine doesn't mean that it's going to "push as much power as a traditional mount turbo pushing 18 psi"
yes the turbo is going to stay cool but I've seen the STS turbo kit on a corvette in real life and the oil return line was reallllly low and if that fitting got knicked then i can see that being a real problem, and you wouldn't know because it'll be dripping right onto the road.
What's going to matter is the size of the turbine blades and the model of the turbos.
Learn to read a compressor map, It'll show you what PSI each turbo will flow the most amount of air..aka "the sweet spot"
kthx
+1 and qft
and correct me if i'm wrong but isn't more piping going to cause a drop in boost pressure? maybe not that much but just like having more tubing to goto a FMIC plus the ic can result in a 1-2lb drop in boost pressure and thats on a traditional setup
07-11-2007, 04:16 PM
#84
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 07-15-06
Location: Pocomoke City, MD
Posts: 3,765
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
here, ill do the leg work for you, here is 2 videos of the STS install
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMB14OOfgss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B2mwgsvikY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMB14OOfgss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B2mwgsvikY
07-11-2007, 04:17 PM
#85
Senior Member
i'm assuming you're not talking about me...
+1 and qft
and correct me if i'm wrong but isn't more piping going to cause a drop in boost pressure? maybe not that much but just like having more tubing to goto a FMIC plus the ic can result in a 1-2lb drop in boost pressure and thats on a traditional setup
+1 and qft
and correct me if i'm wrong but isn't more piping going to cause a drop in boost pressure? maybe not that much but just like having more tubing to goto a FMIC plus the ic can result in a 1-2lb drop in boost pressure and thats on a traditional setup
07-11-2007, 04:19 PM
#86
Senior Member
Join Date: 09-25-06
Location: USAG Stuttgart, GER
Posts: 1,860
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i never post here but just reading your posts says to me "you don't wtf you're talking about."
a Turbo placed further away from the engine doesn't mean that it's going to "push as much power as a traditional mount turbo pushing 18 psi"
yes the turbo is going to stay cool but I've seen the STS turbo kit on a corvette in real life and the oil return line was reallllly low and if that fitting got knicked then i can see that being a real problem, and you wouldn't know because it'll be dripping right onto the road.
What's going to matter is the size of the turbine blades and the model of the turbos.
Learn to read a compressor map, It'll show you what PSI each turbo will flow the most amount of air..aka "the sweet spot"
kthx
a Turbo placed further away from the engine doesn't mean that it's going to "push as much power as a traditional mount turbo pushing 18 psi"
yes the turbo is going to stay cool but I've seen the STS turbo kit on a corvette in real life and the oil return line was reallllly low and if that fitting got knicked then i can see that being a real problem, and you wouldn't know because it'll be dripping right onto the road.
What's going to matter is the size of the turbine blades and the model of the turbos.
Learn to read a compressor map, It'll show you what PSI each turbo will flow the most amount of air..aka "the sweet spot"
kthx
07-11-2007, 04:23 PM
#88
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 07-15-06
Location: Pocomoke City, MD
Posts: 3,765
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
here is one of a vet with the STS on a fly by and from a roll
http://oi.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/i/C6%2...rive3small.mpg
http://oi.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/i/C6%2.../c6freeway.mpg
here is a stang STS turbo
http://oi.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/i/Mustang/smustdrive2.mpg
http://oi.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/i/Must...gleMustRev.mpg
http://oi.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/i/Mustang/smustlaunch.mpg
http://oi.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/i/C6%2...rive3small.mpg
http://oi.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/i/C6%2.../c6freeway.mpg
here is a stang STS turbo
http://oi.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/i/Mustang/smustdrive2.mpg
http://oi.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/i/Must...gleMustRev.mpg
http://oi.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/i/Mustang/smustlaunch.mpg
07-11-2007, 04:23 PM
#89
psi really doesn't matter much hense why there are people that run less psi on swaps and run better numbers on their balts. if you run 22LBs of boost and it pushes 1000 cfm and another system runs 10lbs of boost and still pushes 1000cfm you'll have the same gains... boost pressure is relative...
xcobalt... what are those videos supposed to prove? yea so what cars have them installed.... that doesn't mean it is better than another system
xcobalt... what are those videos supposed to prove? yea so what cars have them installed.... that doesn't mean it is better than another system
07-11-2007, 04:34 PM
#92
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 07-15-06
Location: Pocomoke City, MD
Posts: 3,765
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
on a vet it took it from 343 whp to 537whp on a dyno in the video of the install. just in case you dont know, thats more HP then a brand new Z06
07-11-2007, 04:34 PM
#93
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-31-06
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Man I've been really trying not to act like an ass but whats your problem dude. Your making no sense as to why this isn't a good system. Your talking about risk to a tuner community, everything we do to our cars involve risks. Are you sure your not wairing panties dude.
07-11-2007, 04:39 PM
#94
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 07-15-06
Location: Pocomoke City, MD
Posts: 3,765
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
they guys even point out that with a normal turbo system the engine heat keeps the turbo hot, at the back of the car the exaust gases are cooler then up in the engine bay. cooler air is more dence then hot air. denser air moves the turbo faster. they also point out that intercoolers on normal turbo systems are 75% effective. with the STS system an intercooler is 97% effective. and they also point out tha the long distance of the charging pipe only drops 1psi of boost but the charging pipes cool the air off on the way up to the engine and is good for 50 hp, and he also says thats a much better traed off. just watch the videos
07-11-2007, 04:47 PM
#95
sorry with something that expensive under my car i would be wary about damage....
i'm not the only one that doesn't personally feel this system ... it's mostly my opinion based on the safety of you investment and things of that nature.. if it infact produces the numbers you aim for then more power to you... there was someone on here that ripped their exhaust off from a speed bump.... how would you feel if that was your turb
risk of blowing your engine is one thing that happens onces you start messing with any form of F/i... risk of destroying your part because of where it's mounted just doesn't seem like the best thing
but it's not like it's cheap enough for me to warrant buying it due to other issues that have been previously brought up
maybe if i my car wasn't my DD then i would think differently *shruggs*
i'm not the only one that doesn't personally feel this system ... it's mostly my opinion based on the safety of you investment and things of that nature.. if it infact produces the numbers you aim for then more power to you... there was someone on here that ripped their exhaust off from a speed bump.... how would you feel if that was your turb
risk of blowing your engine is one thing that happens onces you start messing with any form of F/i... risk of destroying your part because of where it's mounted just doesn't seem like the best thing
but it's not like it's cheap enough for me to warrant buying it due to other issues that have been previously brought up
maybe if i my car wasn't my DD then i would think differently *shruggs*
07-11-2007, 04:53 PM
#96
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 07-15-06
Location: Pocomoke City, MD
Posts: 3,765
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
these guys have me sold on it big time. this will keep me from having to change out my plastic intake maifold becaue it low enough boost that it will support it
07-11-2007, 05:02 PM
#99
and? sorry i'd rather be safe then have to put more work into it down the line because things didn't go quite as planned..
if he knows it'll definitely work then thats cool, i was just saying I wouldn't want something to happen and that be the weak link. since he re built his engine... if you do that whats a few hundred more going to mean just to be safe ?
am i the only one that thinks it's better to be safe then sorry and plan for the worst/plan for big numbers so you don't have to worry about it down the line?
if he knows it'll definitely work then thats cool, i was just saying I wouldn't want something to happen and that be the weak link. since he re built his engine... if you do that whats a few hundred more going to mean just to be safe ?
am i the only one that thinks it's better to be safe then sorry and plan for the worst/plan for big numbers so you don't have to worry about it down the line?
07-11-2007, 05:03 PM
#100
Senior Member
Join Date: 02-27-06
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 926
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
idk man, i'm not really getting involved in this one because i haven't researched a lot of this **** much.
However, both sides have presented good points and poor points. the STS have been shown to be quite successful, unfortuneately, I've only seen them successful on GTO's, Vettes, Camaros, and Stangs, what do all those have in common? Large displacement V8's. I honestly don't know how well it would work on a 2.2L 4cyl, and honestly nobody really does, all you're doing is making assumptions about what you think MIGHT happen.
Adam, i'm not trying to knock you on this one but most of these systems tuck the turbo up much higher than the body panels, so most likely, you're going to do a lot of damage to the body of your car before you do to the turbo. It's one of those mods that you have to be aware of it and drive accordingly. It's just like when you lower your car, you watch out for inclines, big bumps, etc, when you put wheels on, you're a lot more careful of potholes, curbs, etc. While your argument is TRUE, i'm not quite sure that it's a strong one.
Cobalt05, your post about running a 10sec pass and then blowing your motor is just silly. We'd all love to run a 10 sec pass but whats the point if it costs you $6-10K to fix it whenever you want to run the 10sec pass? and yes, you're right that colder air is denser and would spin a turbine faster, however, velocity is also key. and through the exhaust pipe, cat (if you need them), resonators, the gases lose velocity. So, you gain density and lose velocity. Plus, no matter what your friend says it will take longer to build boost. a lot of times you can compare pneumatic (air) pressure, aka boost, with hydraulic (water) pressure. Does it take longer to fill a 3ft or 10ft tube to 20 lbs of water pressure? it's the same thing with air. the air will travel to the area of lowest pressure first, therefore, it needs to build the pressure throughout the system prior to it reaching full boost in the intake manifold. Like people said, research compressor maps on google and learn how to read them. Once you can read a compressor map you will be able to find which turbo will work the best on your setup. Remember, bigger is not always better.
My overall opinion? I'd say go for it, try it out, noone else has and someone has to be the first. and from your 10sec post, money isn't much of a big deal for you, so change it if you don't like it. Obviously, when you do something for the first time there will be some resistance, then if it works people will be impressed, and if it doesn't then people have set themselves up to say, "I told you so". dont be afraid to be wrong. just let us know how it works out.
However, both sides have presented good points and poor points. the STS have been shown to be quite successful, unfortuneately, I've only seen them successful on GTO's, Vettes, Camaros, and Stangs, what do all those have in common? Large displacement V8's. I honestly don't know how well it would work on a 2.2L 4cyl, and honestly nobody really does, all you're doing is making assumptions about what you think MIGHT happen.
Adam, i'm not trying to knock you on this one but most of these systems tuck the turbo up much higher than the body panels, so most likely, you're going to do a lot of damage to the body of your car before you do to the turbo. It's one of those mods that you have to be aware of it and drive accordingly. It's just like when you lower your car, you watch out for inclines, big bumps, etc, when you put wheels on, you're a lot more careful of potholes, curbs, etc. While your argument is TRUE, i'm not quite sure that it's a strong one.
Cobalt05, your post about running a 10sec pass and then blowing your motor is just silly. We'd all love to run a 10 sec pass but whats the point if it costs you $6-10K to fix it whenever you want to run the 10sec pass? and yes, you're right that colder air is denser and would spin a turbine faster, however, velocity is also key. and through the exhaust pipe, cat (if you need them), resonators, the gases lose velocity. So, you gain density and lose velocity. Plus, no matter what your friend says it will take longer to build boost. a lot of times you can compare pneumatic (air) pressure, aka boost, with hydraulic (water) pressure. Does it take longer to fill a 3ft or 10ft tube to 20 lbs of water pressure? it's the same thing with air. the air will travel to the area of lowest pressure first, therefore, it needs to build the pressure throughout the system prior to it reaching full boost in the intake manifold. Like people said, research compressor maps on google and learn how to read them. Once you can read a compressor map you will be able to find which turbo will work the best on your setup. Remember, bigger is not always better.
My overall opinion? I'd say go for it, try it out, noone else has and someone has to be the first. and from your 10sec post, money isn't much of a big deal for you, so change it if you don't like it. Obviously, when you do something for the first time there will be some resistance, then if it works people will be impressed, and if it doesn't then people have set themselves up to say, "I told you so". dont be afraid to be wrong. just let us know how it works out.