2.2L ecotec throttle body question
08-23-2007, 05:08 PM
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2.2L ecotec throttle body question
Whatsup, i was thinking of buying an intake with a bigger bored tb for the 2.2L ecotec. I know smg is selling one that is 62mm straight through for $230, and i found a deal on ebay that i get a k&n intake, with a tb that starts out 69mm then goes to a 60mm brass butterfly and out to a 62mm to match with the intake manifold for $359. I know the ebay one costs more money but i also get the intake with that one so in the end it will save me a little bit of cash. My question is, which tb would be better a 62mm straight through or the 69 to 60 to 62 mm throttle body, the ebay throttle body is also suppose to maximize low to mid power and i was told that a bigger tb would slow my acceleration down but out perform in the higher rpms? Any comments are appreciated, i know ebay is usually nothing to brag about but i've bought other things off the seller with no troubles and i have trust in him. But then again i wanna get performance out of the money im paying with so if a 62 straight through is better i'd go with that even if it cost more money.
08-23-2007, 05:32 PM
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A bigger TB would decrease the velocity of the incoming air to some extent; how much an effect it would have, I don't know because I've never seen a dyno comparison. However, because there is no tuning available for the 2.2 yet (excluding of course the tuning solution through SCT for the Garrett kit) I don't even think it would work because you need to tune for the new TB size. If you don't, the computer won't know how much air the engine is actually getting which would mess up your idle at the very least.
BTW, does anyone know the size of the stock throttle body?
BTW, does anyone know the size of the stock throttle body?
08-23-2007, 05:41 PM
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I'm pretty sure the stock tb is a 58mm bore. So your saying that if i get a tb i wont see any of a difference or that it will throw codes?
this sucks.
this sucks.
08-23-2007, 05:42 PM
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I'm old school
The last time I checked this issue, TB's could not be swapped on this car for a couple of reasons. First, there was the electronic control issue, where most aftermarket TB's where cable actuated. Second, due to the lack of tuning, you would not be able to adjust your parameters to match the new TB's flow.
08-23-2007, 05:47 PM
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Besides throwing your engine a curveball, I don't think there is too much to be gained out of the TB on a stock motor.
Just get the intake; it will be cheaper than the setup you were looking at, give you gains close to what you would have gotten with the intake/TB package, increase your gas mileage, and sound
too.
EDIT: I just checked your profile and saw that you have a Cavalier. Forget what I just said.
Minus the comments on the intake of course.
Just get the intake; it will be cheaper than the setup you were looking at, give you gains close to what you would have gotten with the intake/TB package, increase your gas mileage, and sound
too.EDIT: I just checked your profile and saw that you have a Cavalier. Forget what I just said.
Minus the comments on the intake of course.
Last edited by XM15; 08-23-2007 at 05:47 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
08-23-2007, 05:49 PM
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A member has tried swapping out the 2.2 TB for the 2.4 and, while I don't know the difference in sizes, it threw the car into limp mode. the computer thought that there was a leak because there was too much air coming in.
It won't work until we get tuning
It won't work until we get tuning
08-23-2007, 05:53 PM
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did it actually throw an evap code or did it throw a system too lean code? A simple map clamp would probably solve the issue
08-23-2007, 05:55 PM
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im not sure... it was cobalter ls the guy that tested the 2.4 intake manifold. he was working with CED so if they couldnt get it working i dont know what would
08-23-2007, 06:02 PM
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well I wouldn't think the signal voltage from the tps would be any different, but since they're dbw it could be a problem with the signal the the tb itself. If it's a system too lean condition then the aem fi/c should be able to fix the problem
08-23-2007, 06:43 PM
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08-23-2007, 06:56 PM
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08-23-2007, 07:05 PM
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Stock COBALT 2.2 TB is 60MM and is electronically controlled, 62 MM is not a big difference. 2.4 TB is 68 MM (>10% increase). The cavaliers use a cable controlled TB so swapping out the TB is probably do-able (and the Cavy TB is a lot smaller). Problem we ran into is that the air fuel diagnostics sees the 2.4 TB as an air leak (too much air for TB position) and sets a P0068 DTC which puts it into limp mode. There is no way to retune the ECU to make it accept the increase in air flow.
There is an ongoing effort to make this work, but it is not finalized yet.
There is an ongoing effort to make this work, but it is not finalized yet.
08-23-2007, 10:56 PM
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its not a map issue at all....extra air during idle causes toe ECU to adjust to try and attain a 14.7:1 AFR, which would be fine...only this increases the amount of power made at idle. your computer is looking for an idle RPM of around 600rpms, but its sensors are showing an idle RPM of close to 1000RPM, which makes it think there is a leak in your intake system past the TB, so it puts you in limp home mode. the only sensors that are affecting the limp mode are your tachometer sensor....
cliffsnotes: computer wants idle rpm of 600rpm, new throttle body gives computer a 1000rpm idle, computer thinks theres a leak due to change in idle speed, so computer puts in limp mode
however...if you do have a cavi..then you have tuning as a solution to fix this issue, and dont need to worry at all. you'll just need to get the car tuned once you install a TB
cliffsnotes: computer wants idle rpm of 600rpm, new throttle body gives computer a 1000rpm idle, computer thinks theres a leak due to change in idle speed, so computer puts in limp mode
however...if you do have a cavi..then you have tuning as a solution to fix this issue, and dont need to worry at all. you'll just need to get the car tuned once you install a TB
08-23-2007, 11:04 PM
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08-23-2007, 11:38 PM
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In our testing it wasn't the idle that was a problem -- the ECU "learned" to control the idle. I watched the RPMs drop as it relearned with the 2.4 TB installed. It is when you would give it throttle, initially the car would go and because of the larger TB even with a small amount of throttle the response was awesome (basically since it was like opening the original TB wider). You could feel the difference in near WOT but the limp mode and P0068 would set before you could get the whole effect. I let the car idle for long periods as well to see if getting to operating temperature would help -- it didn't.
On a side note Tom was able to talk to someone "in the know" at GM and they addressed it as airflow dignostics calibrations within the ECU (if memory serves me right). The ECU measures the incoming air Vs the throttle blade position.
On a side note Tom was able to talk to someone "in the know" at GM and they addressed it as airflow dignostics calibrations within the ECU (if memory serves me right). The ECU measures the incoming air Vs the throttle blade position.
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