shawn672

it would all depend on your RPM's. Next time you Autocross, watch your Tach and try and figure out where your RPM's are usually between.
If you're taking alot of corning and you're lower then 3 or 4,500, then this will hurt you. If you're usually above 4.5k, then it will help you. And if you're above 5k alot..this will REALLY help you!! For some dumb reason, the HP and Torque curve just DIE after 5.5k with the stock intake. You actually make more power at 5.5, then you do at 6300, which is right before redline! GM engineers must have been smokin something, cuz this is wack yo!


Look at CED's dyno:
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/stor...t-W67C144.aspx

XM15

They designed it for low/mid range torque and not neccessarily for top end power because the Cobalt is just an economy car. Most of the people buying them use them don't live in the 5500+rpm range too often anyways.

mlcroy20

This isn't all that unusual, most cars do reach a peak before the redline, my GTO peaks at 5600 but the redline is 6500...

In Autocross my RPM's are all over the place, it's a lot of getting on and off the gas, so there really is no baseline. What I really want is better acceleration. So how does this mod help or hurt acceleration? Does anyone have some comparitative 60' times from drag racing, maybe??

RedBaseBolt

I raced my friend with a 5 speed. He blew me away off the line but I quickly gained as I reached higher rpm and came into the powerband. I don't know if this mod was really worth my time unless I get a turbo to support it.

joeworkstoohard

they were smoking the "lets make this car do well with an automatic" drug

IonNinja

did you still lose after you "quickly gained"

i'm sorta considering this mod still due to my patriot head...my torque is already gone anyway.

RedBaseBolt

Yeah I still lost. he got the jump too far ahead, by the end of the quarter mile I might have broken even but we didnt go that far.

IonNinja

do you know what his mods were?

Gearblock

Guys cmon, look at the dyno results....is it really worth the price to lose hp and move it somwhere else? so u gain a little bit more....so what? cant u get the mani from the sab 9-3 turbo...or maybe thats only for the 2.0. if u do this it is only good for 1/4m probably...will hurt daily driving when merging and stuff for sure.

XM15

IMO, the manifold turns our cars into Hondas.

shawn672

wont matter, seemed like the other guy got a better start..was a drivers race more than anything



You lose 10whp between 3500 and 4500. pretty much even from 4500 to 5500 with the 2.4 slightly higher. from 5500 to 6300, the 2.2 intake loses power while the 2.4 continues to climb and ends up being 13whp higher then the 2.2.


Basically you lose 10whp during normal driving, but you gain 13whp as maximum...but you actually gain about 25whp where the 2.4 peaks right before shift.

With manuals..it might not be as effective as an auto because you can manually shift it at 5500, but with autos, we ride the tach to "redline" so the 2.4 makes a larger difference.

But again, I would like to see 1/4 miles times with both intakes, same mods, and somehow, both runs have to be launched the same.

edit: Take a look at the A/F ratios...seems like the 2.4 mani keeps it alot more consistent, wonder what the long term effects of that could be? longer engine life? idk if its relevant at all, just noticed it

blktrax

The fact of the matter being, these cars are not going to make anymore power without computer management of some kind.

I just re-dynoed my car the CED test car, and the results of witch is simply this

GMPP Intake Tube
2.4L THORTTLE BODY -Added
2.4L Intake Manifold
SS/SC Self Ported Manifold - Added
SS/SC NEW Down Pipe - Added
GMPP Sport Catback

Same tire pressure withi 4 degrees ambient temp of the last dyno

the 2.4 throttle body and the ss/sc exhaust manifold and DP yielded no gains at all.
The dyno graph was a mirror image of when I swapped on the intake manifold.
It leaned the A/F another point across the run as well.

So either I've reached a stopping point on the head and its flow capabilities, or the computer is restricting power output.

So I have yet to see anyone with a 2.2L L61 make more than 152 HP and 142TQ at the wheels on a dyno jet without doing anything internaly to the motor, Forced Induction or Nitrous.

IonNinja

so basically, you need cams so you can bring more air into the motor.

also, no that doesn't mean it was a drivers race...i had a similar fate with a Cobalt and he walked me off the line twice and I had a better launch one of the times. but my car has the same loss of low end torque.

lil_kano

interesting thread...im curious to see what this will do with my n2o...hmm. im subscribing.

blktrax

I don't know, I've been furiously working through the data to find the choke point, its not into or out of the motor anymore, its in the head flow or the computer. Without tuning to change fuel and timing, there's no guarntee that cams valves or porting are going to make that big of a diffrence that the computer just won't cut power back.

What amazing is that the 2.2 with all of the bolt on parts is making 152HP at the wheels. I want to see what a simmilarly modded 2.4 is making and where the VVT is making the most diffrence. I think if the compression was upped on the 2.2L or the same level and run on Premium Fuel there would be very little diffrence between the two with the exception of low end where the VVT changes and attepmpts to compensate for the long intake runners.


Here is the only 2.4L dyno sheet I could find on Cobaltss.net

LewiSS 2.4L Automatic Stock v Air intake tube v +Hood Scoop Measured Wheel HP


Blktrax 2.2L Manual (blue)GMPP Intake Tube Stock 2.2 Manifold v (red)GMPP Intake Tube 2.4L Manifold
Note the LewiSS's 2.4 has the same torque dip as the 2.2 with the 2.4 Manifold the long runners make both engines suffer a TQ loss.

shawn672

so as someone with the 2.4 intake...the million dollar question:

Is it worth it or not?

blktrax

For me for my driving style for my application,

Yes the 2.4 manifold was worth it.

en0onmai

from the looks all the mods are "worth" it... BUT.. getting more than the 152 wheel number is the trick. Anything you do to increase your engine's "breathing" (Manifold, header, exhaust, intake) is going to help. But without a system like the AEM FI/C or something like HPTuners to help adjust for the increased flow your performance will hit that magic 152 whp wall and thats it. More fuel, timing and adjusting that across the RPM band would net greater results from an already potent engine.

My $0.02?? Get all the mods first since they range from $100-$300 first. THEN save for a AEM FI/C (around $500-$600) and get tuned. Get your foundation mods first then tune for what you've got. But again, this is just my $0.02!

blktrax

Thats what I'm saying... you hit the nail in the head, its availability to the masses and ease of accomplishment is the issue.

mlcroy20

So basically, if I were to get the AEM FI/C, then there is the potential to get the 2.4 mani/tb, some bigger injectors, and tune all of this to make some decent power...

What type of problems does this cause with the auto trans, and ecu?

blktrax

Invarablely, someone is going to DIY and start wire hacking harnesses and then start bitching about how things aren't covered under warranty.

If it was a matter of just plugging in and changing software no problem. Thats what I've been working on is getting the most out of this with using only GM parts.

As fatr as a tune goes, whenver a tech does work on the car they just reflash, no big deal, but without a way to modify the stock computer theres no way tu use such a thing like the AEM unit or anyhting else without splicing harnesses.

409Cobalt07

all of my mods are in my sig and YES i think it was worth it. it worked very well with all the other mods on my car. i have yet to take it to the track to see adifference in 1/4 mile times but im hoping to in the upscoming weeks. as for other peoples cars... no one drives the same so its hard to tell other people if they should do it or not. bottom line is if you want it get it. and if you dont think its worth it then dont.

IonNinja

well of course you're going to have to splice into your fuel injectors, thats how a piggyback works

but that unit sucks if you can't change the rev limit cuz you're gonna need more rpms to work with if you wanna make some significant N/A power

blktrax

Also true, but when I think of "Piggybacking" something I think of it like a Banks Diesel Module that plugs inline with the factory system. Not something that you have to cut apart whats already there. What were accually talking about is Integration not so much piggybacking, Its a lot harder to reverse.

Mainly I think about longevity in diffrent weather condidtions, wet snow cold hot ect. If the electrical connections are not done well and weatherproofed, connection corrosion, ground issues, all kinds of issues pop up.

I'm not concerned with power now, I focus on streeable reliable power that will work for many many years trouble free.


So far I have changed absolutly nothing on my car at 2500 miles it burned out the headlight harness, literaly melted the insulation off. But I have not had any mechanical issues whatsoever. So I take the good with the bad, but reliability is the overall goal.

M-Dub

Intakes are usually worth the money, unless you paid for the GMPP one and it just because it is ******* expensive!