Gene K

First an introduction, My name is Gene and I look forward to coming to know everyone if I end up with a Cobalt. I suspect Im a bit older than average around here (by a factor of at least two). That doesnt make me any different really, it just is. Just like everyone else around here I like cars and tinkering with them and need a bit of advice from time to time. Well enough of this mush and on with the question...

Im looking for a small, fun to drive, affordable car that has good performance (relative) and responds well to small mods (I like to tinker). I am looking at a new 2007 Cobalt LS Coupe 2.2L 5-Speed Manual w/Air for $11,288 at the local dealers. How does everyone feel about this car? Any advice on whether the price is fair is also appreciated.

an0malous

go for it!
ecotecs are a bulletproof little engine.
for that price its hard to complain hehe
theres always the option of the 2.4 of the 2.0 if you wanna pay for that extra performance.

welcome to the site. and good luck on whichever car you chose

Halfcent

The price sounds like a steal. I'm assuming that's your goal, low acquistion price? If you are in the park for a more performance oriented Cobalt, look at the 2.4 SS. You might even want to wait for the '08s to come out.

Gene K

Im considering a 2007 2.2L. I like to tinker and love getting a lot out of a little. I know the 2007 already has the 2.4L Head. Are there any unique hangups on the 2007 compared to earlier cars? From what I have read it may be possible to improve on a 2.2L a good bit with Exhaust, Air Intake, and a 2.4L Intake Manifold. I know very minor mods took a 1st Gen SOHC ACR Neon (Dont Laugh!) from high 15's to high 14's NA. The research I have done tells me the Ecotec may be just as easily improved.

Im looking at a New 2007 LS Coupe 2.2L 5-Speed Manual w/Air for $11,288.00
Any thoughts on the suitibility of this model?

xspyder85x

i love mine. just wait for tuning and you can go turbo or supercharged.

Red07SSNA

Good choice for a car to start out with. Just to carify: The 2007 2.2 doesn't use the 2.4 head it uses the individual coil-on-plug ignition Vs the earlier years 2-coil pack. the 2.4 head has VVT and the heads are not interchangeable.

cobaltltblue

as i have said before. ALL the heads on any currently produced ecotec motor come form the same casting the same intake and exhaust bolt patterns the same cam bolt patterns the same block with all the same mounting places for the accessories. the internals are different thats it. the cam gears on the 2.4l are where the VVT comes from they change the cam timing just like toyota. honda has seperate cam lobes for their vtec. just trying to help.

Gene K

From the GM Press Release on the 2007 L61 2.2L Ecotec:

Cylinder Head Improvements
The Ecotec 2.2L also benefits from cylinder head refinements introduced on the 2.4L VVT. The exhaust ports have been enlarged slightly with machining improvements to expel exhaust gas more efficiently. Both engines share a common nodular cast iron exhaust manifold, chosen for its durability and sound-deadening properties. The improvements to the cylinder head increase Ecotec 2.2L horsepower slightly in most applications (see specs).


So the new 2007 Head is improved and inspired by the 2.4L but different?

Since they use the same Gen II Block and Exhaust Manifold and except the same intake manifolds why would the heads not interchange on the 2006+ 2.4L and 2007+ 2.2L?

cobaltltblue

they should. you will not get the VVT cams to work they have to get the control form the 2.4l computer witch runs a different system outside the engine. basically they just started making the 2.4 head and 2.2 head ports and valves the same to cut costs. one matching can do all the heads instead of 2 machines doing slightly different heads. and now they only have to cast one size of a valve to put in both. your stock head is fine. get the GM build book. it clearly states the 2.2 head is good to around 400 hp before you have to change anything but the valves them selfs. and thats just to cope with the heat of a force fed motor. the springs don't even need to be changed because we can't raise the rev limiter on our cars yet.

Halfcent

Whoa, look at this thread!

Okay people, school is in session.

The L61 (pre or post 2006), LSJ, LE5, and LNF engines all have completely unique heads. They have the same GEOMETERY, meaning the head bolts, intake and exhaust ports, and timing chain location are all in the same place from one head to another. But that does NOT AT ALL mean the heads are interchangable. They will all physically fit each other, but only a couple combinations can actually be made to work.

The pre 2006 L61 had no COP ignition, and had no cam position sensor. All of the other engines do.

The LE5 head can not be used on any other engine. The necessary provisions for the VVT are on in the LE5 block.

It is possible to use an LSJ head on an L61, you would just cap off the cam sensor mount.

Each head must use it's own unique valve cover, as each one is different.

The qoute you have above about the L61 engine using "refinements" from the LE5 engine does NOT mean its the LE5 head. It's just saying that they took the different exhaust port design from the LE5 and are now using that one feature on the L61 heads.

Also, I noticed you have another thread already about this topic. I have merged them. Please just make one thread in the future.

Gene K

Actually I didnt intend them to be the same.

1. General - Was supposed to be an introduction and about the Cobalt as a whole. Which is why I thought it fit in General.

2. 2.2L Engine - Was supposed to be about the 2007 2.2L Specificly.

So the new 2006 2.4L head and 2007 L61 Head are different! Weird One Block, One Exhaust Manifold, Two Heads....

Halfcent

Not one block. The blocks are different as well. Exhaust manifolds might be the same, I don't know about that.

Gene K

If they are indded different Blocks GM really needs to get there act together. They keep sending out incorrect information!

From GM's 2007 Press Release:

Gen II Engine Block

The Ecotec 2.2L starts with a refined engine block, introduced for 2006 with the Ecotec 2.4L VVT (RPO LE5). The Gen II block was developed with data acquired in racing programs and the latest math-based tools. Both the bore walls and bulkheads, or the structural elements that support the crank bearings, have been strengthened, with only a minimal weight increase (approximately 2.5 pounds). The coolant jackets have been expanded, allowing more precise bore roundness and improving the block’s ability to dissipate heat. Coolant capacity increases approximately .5 liter.


The cylinder block is the engine’s foundation, and crucial to its durability, output and smooth operation. For GM, the common Gen II Ecotec block increases assembly efficiency. For the customer, the result is more efficient cooling, more strength to accommodate additional power, as in the new Ecotec 2.0L direct-injection Turbo (RPO LNF) and better noise, vibration and harshness control.

Halfcent

Their information isn't wrong. Then GenII block is the basic casting only. It then gets machined differently for each application. For instance, the LE5 has a completely different bore and stroke then the other engines.

jasonpero

I can't respond on the mods end, except for what i've read here (which seems to be that it DOES respond well to small mods).
On the other parts of your question, I have to say the base model cobalt fits what you're looking for and that price sounds right about where mine was. (the $1K rebate rocks)
Another up-side is that the car looks smaller than it feels when you're putting stuff into it. The trunk is massive - assuming you can get things through the opening (the opening is kinda small), but the back seat is roomy enough.
All-in-all i'm very satisfied with my purchase of a Cobalt LS with the 5-speed.

Red07SSNA

The VVT on the 2.4 heads require room for the cam adjusters on the front of the cams. If you look at the 2.4 head Vs a 2.2 head you will see that there is a definite bulge on the end of the head to make room for these cam adjusters. there is no bulge like this on the 2.2 head. Additionally, the two VVT solenoids fit down into the block oil passageways through the head -- and the 2.4 valve cover has holes for the wiring to these solenoids. You cannot just swap the 2.4 and 2.2 heads.

Gene K

I dont really consider a different bore (2 mm) or even extra crank clearance as different. Different to me is something along the lines of the difference between a a regular big block chrysler and a 2nd gen Hemi. Based on the same engine family but thats about it. Its actually easier to make new heads to work with a 440 Block than make the 426 Hemi Heads work.

As to the heads... Are you saying the head itself actually has a bulge in the casting? Or you talking simple dress differences (covers)?

I thought the unique block (VVT in block) only applied to the early engines?

I dont know why Im questioning all this. I dont really plan on changing the heads, block, or crank. I just like to learn about new things (or a engine thats new to me).

Red07SSNA

Yes, the 2.4 head and valve cover have a cast-in bulge in order to fit the VVT cam adjusters. No way to install the VVT cam adjusters and solenoids in the 2.2 head...unless you use a sledge hammer and don't mind oil leaks

Gene K

Jason, thanks for the info. I guess I picture this car as a (sorry for the Mopar reference) modern day 340 Duster. Sporty 2 door compact thats dirt cheap and faster then anyone would expect. Guess I will never grow up.

Cobalter Thanks. It sounds like someone in Public Relations got a little carryied away in describing the differences this year.

I dont really plan much other than Exhaust, 2.4L Intake Manifold, and Air Intake anyway. Guess Im going to have to look into the relative merit of the 2.4 Air Box vs CIA and Shorty Headers vs Extrude Hone. I am really kind of addicted to the sleeper look though. From the sound of it there doesnt sound like much you can do on the intake cam anyway as the 2007 IC is supposed to be unique (wont interchange with others). Although I suspect its likely something an aftermarket cam company could overcome.

Helltime

I like my 07 cobalt ls, I just wish tuneing would come out so the fun can begin...guess i can start with other stuff. That sounds like a good price, mine was supposed to be 14k but i got lucky and didn't really pay anywhere close to that even after tax, title and license....but yeah around here a bare basic cobalt is about $14100 before rebates and before the destination charge of about 600 bux. If you want something with good gasmileage and performance this is a great car for that. I am not sure how it responds to mods but it is an impressive car for the price and being a N/A 4 cylinder.

IonNinja

thats a good price for a car, for that factor alone I'd consider it.

although if I had to do it over again, I would go with a 2.4. That is the middle ground option where there is not a ton of power but enough to have fun with and not spend alot of money.

a 2.2 with basic bolt ons will still be a mid 15 sec. car at the end of the day so...