xCobalt05x

you will probably have to use all stand alone gauges. but dont quote me on that. stand alone is a whole nother animal.

actually now that i think about it, they make full fuel management stand alone systems. i havent looked into those but im sure they maintain everything about the factory computer except it by passes the fuel portion of this. im not sure about it but im sure NJK Adam can help me out with this

slindborg

so the F/ic only retards the ign.... great for boosted applications but not so for N/A tuning
shame as I'd have purchased a container full of the damn things lol

xCobalt05x

correct, AEM said that they will never add the option on the F/IC to advance timing becaues thats what you can do with the AEM EMU. They would be under selling themselfs and never sell another EMU since the f/ic is cheaper. BUT if you are a good hacker, you could crack the f/ic coding and figure out how to turn that featur on by writing your own firm ware for it.

lightinbalt

so i cant just get the aem piggyback and tune my stock motot til i get the money to turbo it?

xCobalt05x

as long as you are increasing air flow into the motor some how, i.e. larger piston bore will draw more air in; upgrading to performance cams; upgrading to a higher flowing intake manifold; upgrade to a performance exhaust header; porting and polishing the head; bore out the throtle body or get a larger throtle body (dont recomend the larger throtle body, dont know if would work, but boring out the stock throtle body will work)

those kinds of things in conjunction w/ the f/ic would work well. the only thing that would make it better would being able to advance the timing but that also would require using premium fuel to prevent early dentination.

lightinbalt

all that i use is premuim fuel, and i have been looking into stage 2 cams from turbo tech racing,

xCobalt05x

thats good, but you cant advance the timing with the f/ic you would have to get the AEM EMU and i dont know much about it since im only looking to piggy back and retard the timing a bit

lightinbalt

okay, their emu's are 2500 dollars... is their any way to make a 2.4, or 2.0 ecu work, by changing out the pins and all that stuff, or even the 07 2.2 ecu? or is their any other emu's that i could get...

xCobalt05x

the 2.4 wont work because that ECU is made for VVT. 2.2's are not VVT.

I dont know about the 2.0 but i do know you would have to do a lot a swaping out of the engine harness, body harness, and MAP sensors and all that jaz. probably cost more then the EMU.

07 2.2's have a secondary air injector on the exhaust manifold. you would have to swap out the engine harness for that secion of the motor.

lightinbalt

doing all of the would be alot cheaper than buying a new car or the standalone emu... i am going to have to get the pinouts for the 07 ecu, and a computer, which a local junk yard has, and the wiring hardness, and they have that too... that would run me about 400 dollars if i just looked it up... i trust your knowledge, you seem that you know what your talking about do you think that this is a possibility? or would I just be wasting my time... or should i get the aem and just want til i turbo the car...


do the 07 2.2 have anything different than an 06?

slindborg

hmm so I "could" hack the software (somehow) and make it advance the timing... hmm.

but as you say the fuelling increase alone will help using cams/headwork etc.

xCobalt05x

Slindborg: yes, just because of the simple fact that as the engine has an increase of air flow in, more fuel is required.



lightinbalt: I wouldnt do it because that is a lot more work then im williing to do. so i wont tell you to do it or not, the simple fact is you are going to do what you want to do and the cheapest way possible. im not going to be responsible if you start cutting wires and end up hooking them to the wrong places and then blame me because i said it could be done. Yes it can be done, by a professional. i have not experiance with swaping out factory ecu's w/ other factory ecu's and adding parts that wornt designed for the motor in my car just because it came off of another cobalt. that dont mean that it was MENT to be compatible. but with money, anything is possible. just depends on how deep those pockets can go.

Sw4y1313

It cannot be done. The 07 2.2 has a cam sensor and a few other things that using the e16a ECM will not work on it. Dont bother with trying to use a different ECM for your car cuz it wont work. There are many discussions on the forum about it already.

Also if you want to advance timing, go with the Perfect Power SMT-6 or 7 piggybacks. They do have the ability to advance timing because they were built around the 58X(60-2) crank sensor which comes in 05+ 2.2's.

Witt

Smart man. Factory ECM swaps just aren't a viable solution for these cars like they were in the OBD0/1 Honda days.

Although I don't think the 58x reluctor rings were used in the 2.2l until 07. I'm pretty sure they used a 7x one.

And I saw AEM EMS mentioned above. I have experience with this standalone and I can tell you for a fact it will not work with electronic throttle bodies.

Sw4y1313

Hmmm, ill have to check it out, i could have sworn i've seen a spec sheet saying it was 58X along with the LSJ but now i cannot find it. Meh, oh well it still works =P

Well sweet, now my engine rebuild is going to be a lot easier.

lightinbalt

Im not looking for the cheapest and easiest, i am just looking at the problem as a whole and am looking for any solution to the problem... i am trying to find a fix to the problem, if the aem will work with just cams then i will go that way, if not where can i get the smt 6 or 7 and how much are they, just to be sure it will work with a stock motor with aftermarket cams right...

sorry if i sound dumb i just am trying to learn, about a car that isnt tunable, all the other cars that i have had were tunable

xCobalt05x

the aem will work with cams. you will just have to go to the web sites for the makers of these producs and question them about it to get better details.

tru2nrtt777

iTrader: (1)

Wrong... FYI.
Optimum ratio to work your cat as efficiently as possible is 14.7:1.
Optimum power ratios are between 12.5-13.8:1(depending on the application) hence why you see race cars often throwing fire ***** from the exhaust(and cause they have no cat).
Ever watched a top fuel dragster run the 1/4? They are shooting flames the whole way down, I know they have 8.0L engines but 11 gallons of gas in 1/4 mile is still running at roughly 8.0-9.0:1 while forming ice on the open pipes on cold days.

lightinbalt

ok, one question, how do you tell what ratio you are running when you tune your car... i know i am asking alot of questions just trying to learn as much as i can

tru2nrtt777

iTrader: (1)

Get a badass scanner or if you are tuning it how could you not know?

Sw4y1313

Are you kidding? lol. You buy a wideband o2 Sensor and it tells you your Air/Fuel Ration(AFR). You use that while your tuning to make sure you keep it correct for the rpm and boost level your at. It depends on how your tuning too. Are you tuning via Speed Density, using Boost vs RPM or are you tuning for Throttle position vs Air flow(i believe Alpha-N). If your asking those questions you should not be considering tuning or putting power mods into your car until you fully understand how an engine works. From hardware to tuning. They have great books out that will get you started in the right direction. Just dont stop reading, and let me tell you it took me 8+hrs a day of reading for about 6 months to get to the point where i feel like i know enough to go through with my build. I am also very technical and learn very quickly on my own so it could vary per person. Before this car i knew as much as you do right now.

lightinbalt

thanks, i have a great friend that is a master tech so i am going to have him do the tuning... I do know how a engine works just dont know how to tune a car... im just putting cams in the car and wanting to tune the car, i am starting to buy stuff for forced induction...

xCobalt05x

this isnt a 2.0 ss/sc set up we are talking about man. its a piggy back system on a 2.2L base cobalt and to PREVENT a CEL from poping up you need to keep the AFR as close to factory AFR as possible since the piggy back works in conjunction with the factory computer.

slindborg

you could always fit a wideband kit to the exhaust and then set its narrow band output to "centre" around a different A/F ratio so the stock ecu thinks its happy running 14.7:1 but in reality youve got it fuelling at 13:1 (and the AEM/SMT6 helping)

Sw4y1313

If you keep the AFR at 14.7:1 your going to blow your motor dude. Let me explain what you need to do with the piggyback.

You need to keep your WOT and load AFR at around 11.5 - 11.8 :1. What your going to be doing is called o2 feedback tuning along with fuel tuning. The car needs to THINK its at 14.7:1, not actually be at 14.7:1. You do this by tapping into the narrowband o2 signal. Then while your tuning you must keep your fuel trim within +/- 10 i believe on our ecm(you really want to be around +/- 5). So what you will need to do is use the fuel map AND the o2 map together. You add fuel with the fuel map(or whatever AEM calls it), and then spoof a 14.7 AFR with the o2 map by altering the AFR seen by the o2 sensor so when the added fuel is there, the car only reads 14.7:1. Thats the only way your going to keep from throwing a CEL. Now it would be nice if the piggyback does this on its own, but from what i have seen from the original software i dont believe it did.