redlineblueline

Does anyone know the stock 2.2 cam profile? Also looking at TTR the turbo cams and stage one cams are really similar in lift and duration, I just want to know if the turbo cams are closer to stock then the stage one then they could be used with out tuning as well, correct? That way I say the benefits of cams on a NA engine and have the turbo cams for when I go turbo.

Turbo cams:Turbo Applications power from 2200-7000rpm .423 intake and .419 exhaust valve lift, 248 intake and 244 exhaust duration advertized (204 intake and 200 exhaust @ .050" duration) Wide power range, good power.


Stage one:Applications power from 2600-6800rpm .423 intake and .419 exhaust valve lift, 252 intake and 256 exhaust duration advertized (210 intake and 212 exhaust @ .050" duration) Works best with computer modifications not required.

06Pursuit

iTrader: (1)

im interested in hearing about this too

redlineblueline

Bumpage

NJHK

I honestly don't know and don't know where exactly to find it off hand...but I've contact some very knowledgable people who might know the answer. Keep your eye on this post:

http://www.ecotecforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1468

redlineblueline

nice, iwas just wondering since the stage 1 doesnt "need" computer upgrades and the turbo cams have pretty close durations and the same lift and keep the power band the same, actually the stage 1 is open more than the turbo one. So could I run the turbo cams with out computer upgrades and see the stage 1 benefits and then be turbo ready.

NJHK

Well I would say, don't buy into the "no need for tuning" bull. Anytime you change your airflow with either intake or exhaust, you should adjust your fuel perameters or fuel consumption. Every little modification makes a difference, for the good or bad depends on if you adjust or if you just put things on and leave them.

When you're messing with a critical part of the engine, like the camshafts, you're messing with how much air is entering your combustion chamber, how much exhaust is leaving, how much overlap you have and the list goes on. You're changing the motors characteristics but besides that, you're altering the motors air to fuel ratio. Even with a "stage 1" camshaft, you need to adjust.

I'll give you an example, when I got my stage 1s from Jbody Performance, I put them in...overlaped like crazy and felt pretty good on the low end. Well one night I raced a friend with a Honda Civic Si and we were neck and neck, then I hit 3rd gear...he pulled away like he was spraying nitrous. Why? Well, I thought he had nitrous but he didn't...what happened was my motor was running too rich. Why? My motor was running rich cause of the extra air that was coming into my motor (and leaving) which was altering my motors air/fuel ratio. My stock PCM was not designed for this change, of course, so it didn't know what to do but throw fuel into my motor and keep me as rich as possible. Your computer doesn't know how to adjust for YOUR performance and changes.

This was on an 2003 Sunfire 2.2L ECOTEC by the way.

As far as the turbo cams, I would ask more questions as far as the characteristics of the camshafts compared to the "n/a" cams. Talk to Ryne from Team Vision Racing, he knows more about that topic than I do.

Hope this helped.

07BlackCobalt-LS

Look into Unorthodox. They ave a decent cam kit for our car as well as some sizing charts etc. I dont have the website on hand but Ill try to find it.

NJHK

www.unorthodoxracing.com is the site

I think you're mistaken. I've never heard of unorthodox making actual camshafts, just cam gears.

Also, I highly doubted that they made anything for your model, even for cam gears, so I double checked on their site and there is nothing for the Cobalts.

07BlackCobalt-LS

I could be wrong but dont we have the same motor, head etc that is in the cavaliers? I figured for parts like Camshafts and Cam gears and underdrive pulleys etc it wasnt the car so much that mattered as it was the engine. I was basing what I said on that fact that the parts they offer for the Cavaliers should be direct swaps for our motor as well. But I wasnt sure. Maybe someone can do more research and get back to me.

07BlackCobalt-LS

NVM they only offered them for these models of Cavalier anyways. 95-01 Cavalier Z24 2.3/2.4L. Kinda sucks. I like Unorthodox they were always a great place to look when I was building up my 94 Nissan Sentra SE-R with the SR20DET motor. I had Unorthodox pulleys, cams, camshaft, clutch etc. and all were wonderful parts. I hope they start working on parts for our cars.

TurboTechRacing

iTrader: (24)

We have sold many many sets of those comp cams @ www.TurboTechRacing.com Stage 1 is the most purchased, then the turbo cams. Both would work well with a turbo setup.

The turbo cams are a bit more agressive as they have a little longer duration, causing the engine to build a bit more power on top end.

redlineblueline

^^^But not as agressive as the stage 2

ORT

Can we run the stage 1 in a 2.2 untuned?

Switt23

iTrader: (7)

I wouldn't recommend it. You could probably get by for awhile, but eventually be like Adam said. The air/fuel ratio wont be accurate and probably will cause problems.

ORT

Wow lol im an ass. Im sooo tired just drove 7 hours to New Hampshire (sp?) Didn't even recgonize it haha sorry guys.

NJHK

You are correct but I would use a different word than "problems".

Lets say...your car won't be running at it's max performance and you'd lose power. I wanted to use a different word cause your car will still run fine but it'll probably have an unbalanced a/f ratio cause of it being untuned.

NJHK

As far as if the 2.2 in the Jbodies and the Deltas are the same...yes, they are. The only part I'm not 100% sure of is the crank pulley, not cause of fitment but cause of clearance & possible belt differences. Still haven't found out as far as that part goes.

ORT

So you could get a Fuel Mangement system and be alright? I wouldn't want to go that route but just curious.

player_1

one thing no one has noticed between the two cams, is the duration overlap between Intake and Exhaust.

the turbo cam intake is longer then the exhaust.
the N.A. cam the Exaust is longer then the Intake.

for the turbo cam the intake os longer because it gives the turbo more time to compress the air in the cylinder, so if your N.A. you well yeild not benifits mybe even loose some power.

on the N.A. cam the the exhaust duration is longer allowing you to completely empty the cylinder so that more air can enter at atm. pressure.

my best advise is that if your sure your going to turbo charge your car get the turbo cam after or when you do the turbo, not now.

and tune it as well, the benifits are huge.