Cams
#26
Senior Member
Originally Posted by BlackLS
I was also thinking about getting a set of Set of the Stage 1 cams from TTR since I wil be staying N/A for a while. I was just hoping that someone could explain what all the specs mean so I could understand them better. I know NJHK will have something to say since he knows his stuff.
Here are the specs for the cams:
-Street (Stage 1) Applications power from 2600-6800rpm .423 intake and .419 exhaust valve lift, 252 intake and 256 exhaust duration advertized (210 intake and 212 exhaust @ .050" duration) Works best with computer modifications not required.
Thanks in advance for help.
Here are the specs for the cams:
-Street (Stage 1) Applications power from 2600-6800rpm .423 intake and .419 exhaust valve lift, 252 intake and 256 exhaust duration advertized (210 intake and 212 exhaust @ .050" duration) Works best with computer modifications not required.
Thanks in advance for help.
#27
Senior Member
Originally Posted by specvgini
thats not true, you can run and run well if the cams aren't very aggressive. now if the cam profiles are extreme then yes you will need to get tuned. and from what i have learned there isn't a easy way availible yet. like i saidi've installed cams before and i didn't get a reflash or tune for them and my car ran fine and had really nice gains. hense the turm computer friendly cams.
When I original gotten my stage 1 camshafts, gain was decent but I had terrible top end power. Why? A/F ratio was too rich. Computer didn't know how to comphensate fuel properly so it just gave too much fuel (which is a common thing with our computers...they love to run rich). Stage 1s aren't aggressive at all, rather a mild camshaft. It all depends on how your computer reacts to it. Because of this richness issue, I bought and dyno tuned my car with an SAFC-II. Problem was solved.
Responding to what you just said about installing them and running fine...
You can put camshafts in a car and everything SEEMS fine but without any type of instruments telling you how your car is running percisely, you're not gonna be able to tell that your car is slightly rich or slightly lean from everyday driving. Trust me, you wouldn't be able to tell if your car is running 13.5 or 14.0 from driving it.
Also, the term "computer friendly" usually has to do with valve overlap at idle. Alot of overlap at idle in some cars can cause some sensors to freak, like your knock sensor. Computer friendly has nothing to do with fuel mixture.
#28
Senior Member
Originally Posted by 05YELLOWSS
if memory serves me well, which it doesn't most of the time, the 2.2 and 2.0 are the same engine..other than stroke, so why would these cams not work for the ss/sc...hmmm, cams is my next thing i think...
#30
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Originally Posted by specvgini
well the bottom end has nothing to do with the head. if they use the same head then you could.
#31
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Originally Posted by NJHK
Please please don't expect a certain amount of power gain. You basically have to install them, adjust your cam gears on a dyno (for optimal known gains) and tune from there with some sort of tuning device.
Basically, don't head into this thinking "so and so said I'll gain 10 HP, so I'm gonna gain 10 HP"...you could realistically lose 2 HP, you could gain 15. When increasing air flow, your a/f mixture changes and that makes a difference overall.
Basically, don't head into this thinking "so and so said I'll gain 10 HP, so I'm gonna gain 10 HP"...you could realistically lose 2 HP, you could gain 15. When increasing air flow, your a/f mixture changes and that makes a difference overall.
I figured but I didn't see on JBP any figures like you do on Injen or an exhaust, where they quote you with a rough gain.
#32
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Originally Posted by NJHK
I highly doubt you'll gain 50 WHP from camshafts, injectors and ignition timing...supercharged or not.
First of all, are you getting a reflash from GM?
How do you plan on changing ignition timing? You have HP Tuners?
First of all, are you getting a reflash from GM?
How do you plan on changing ignition timing? You have HP Tuners?
people how are just getting the GM Stage 1 are gaining at least 20-25 HP and about 30lb torque.
with my untuned car I gained 12WHP until the bypass kicked in, and cut my boost. and I gained just over 19WHP, when I ran the boost by-pass. and that is at a 6500RPM limit
so it it not unreasnable that I expect a 50WHP gain, on a good tune with my larger ingectors, and my increased Rev limit set at 7500PRM.
I know that HP just can't be added like that, but keep in mind, that the car cannot provide enough fuel for the cams alone already which is why the by-pass valve is set to bleed any boost past 15PSI
#33
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Originally Posted by kyyankee
I figured but I didn't see on JBP any figures like you do on Injen or an exhaust, where they quote you with a rough gain.
Duration @ .050*, Valve Lift
INTAKE 193*, 439 EXHAUST 197*, 442
their Stage 2 is kept secret, but again, I don't know if they can be used in the 2.2L you'd have to talk to Mev at JBP
#34
Senior Member
Originally Posted by kyyankee
I figured but I didn't see on JBP any figures like you do on Injen or an exhaust, where they quote you with a rough gain.
1. Gimmicks to ploy you in
or
2. Someone who had your vehicle who dyno'd that # BUT it wouldn't mean you would gain the same amount of power. Each motor reacts differently.
#35
Senior Member
Originally Posted by player_1
no I don't have any of the GM stage flashes, I'm going to have the car dyno tuned with HP Tuners.
people how are just getting the GM Stage 1 are gaining at least 20-25 HP and about 30lb torque.
with my untuned car I gained 12WHP until the bypass kicked in, and cut my boost. and I gained just over 19WHP, when I ran the boost by-pass. and that is at a 6500RPM limit
so it it not unreasnable that I expect a 50WHP gain, on a good tune with my larger ingectors, and my increased Rev limit set at 7500PRM.
I know that HP just can't be added like that, but keep in mind, that the car cannot provide enough fuel for the cams alone already which is why the by-pass valve is set to bleed any boost past 15PSI
people how are just getting the GM Stage 1 are gaining at least 20-25 HP and about 30lb torque.
with my untuned car I gained 12WHP until the bypass kicked in, and cut my boost. and I gained just over 19WHP, when I ran the boost by-pass. and that is at a 6500RPM limit
so it it not unreasnable that I expect a 50WHP gain, on a good tune with my larger ingectors, and my increased Rev limit set at 7500PRM.
I know that HP just can't be added like that, but keep in mind, that the car cannot provide enough fuel for the cams alone already which is why the by-pass valve is set to bleed any boost past 15PSI
How do you even know your car is badly tuned at this point? Do you know what your a/f ratio is currently under wide open throtte? You could be spending all this money on parts you don't need just yet.
Also, spinning your supercharger up to 7500 RPMs...personally...don't think it's a good idea for the sake of heat soaking and for the sake of the rest of your valvetrain system might not be able to handle that fast of revving.
#36
Originally Posted by player_1
yah for my stage two, I need to tune so my by pass valve doesn't bleed the extra boost I gained.
but I'm sure with larger injectors, and some adjustments to timing, I could potentially gain 50WHP easy from stock
but I'm sure with larger injectors, and some adjustments to timing, I could potentially gain 50WHP easy from stock
#37
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I was just about to tell NJHK to read the SIG for my upgraded Valve train.
and no my stock injectors are not enough for the Stage 2 cams. the reason why I don't drive withthe boost by-pass mod on, is because the car is running dangerously lean at high RPM. which is the whole reason the by-pass valve bleeds the boost after 15 psi.
in the GM stage kit, that limiter has been moved, to where I don't know.
and I need the injectors because I'm going to use a smaller pulley as well, hopefully with the combanation of my moods I'll be up around 290WHP.
they guy's at INTENCE are predicting me breaking over 300HP, which is why I think I may switch to a larger Pulley
and no my stock injectors are not enough for the Stage 2 cams. the reason why I don't drive withthe boost by-pass mod on, is because the car is running dangerously lean at high RPM. which is the whole reason the by-pass valve bleeds the boost after 15 psi.
in the GM stage kit, that limiter has been moved, to where I don't know.
and I need the injectors because I'm going to use a smaller pulley as well, hopefully with the combanation of my moods I'll be up around 290WHP.
they guy's at INTENCE are predicting me breaking over 300HP, which is why I think I may switch to a larger Pulley
#38
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Originally Posted by player_1
JBP gives you all the specs for their Stage 1
Duration @ .050*, Valve Lift
INTAKE 193*, 439 EXHAUST 197*, 442
their Stage 2 is kept secret, but again, I don't know if they can be used in the 2.2L you'd have to talk to Mev at JBP
Duration @ .050*, Valve Lift
INTAKE 193*, 439 EXHAUST 197*, 442
their Stage 2 is kept secret, but again, I don't know if they can be used in the 2.2L you'd have to talk to Mev at JBP
I ment HP/torque gains.
#40
Senior Member
Originally Posted by player_1
I was just about to tell NJHK to read the SIG for my upgraded Valve train.
and no my stock injectors are not enough for the Stage 2 cams. the reason why I don't drive withthe boost by-pass mod on, is because the car is running dangerously lean at high RPM. which is the whole reason the by-pass valve bleeds the boost after 15 psi.
in the GM stage kit, that limiter has been moved, to where I don't know.
and I need the injectors because I'm going to use a smaller pulley as well, hopefully with the combanation of my moods I'll be up around 290WHP.
they guy's at INTENCE are predicting me breaking over 300HP, which is why I think I may switch to a larger Pulley
and no my stock injectors are not enough for the Stage 2 cams. the reason why I don't drive withthe boost by-pass mod on, is because the car is running dangerously lean at high RPM. which is the whole reason the by-pass valve bleeds the boost after 15 psi.
in the GM stage kit, that limiter has been moved, to where I don't know.
and I need the injectors because I'm going to use a smaller pulley as well, hopefully with the combanation of my moods I'll be up around 290WHP.
they guy's at INTENCE are predicting me breaking over 300HP, which is why I think I may switch to a larger Pulley
Why would you want a larger pulley? I don't understand where that is coming from...
What do you call dangerously lean? Can you give me an a/f ratio #?
#41
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I ment a larger pulley then the 2.7" originaly planned on. I probably going with a 2.9"
I was running at 14.2 when the by-pass kicked in at 5500RPM
I never got it cheaked with the by-pass mod done.
but again the larger injectors are mainly ment for the increased RPM Limit, and smaller pulley.
although I doubt that the stock injectors would provide enough feul for the tuned cams.
but then I'd save some money and get the 42lbers. I just skipped that step because I planned on doing more.
I was running at 14.2 when the by-pass kicked in at 5500RPM
I never got it cheaked with the by-pass mod done.
but again the larger injectors are mainly ment for the increased RPM Limit, and smaller pulley.
although I doubt that the stock injectors would provide enough feul for the tuned cams.
but then I'd save some money and get the 42lbers. I just skipped that step because I planned on doing more.
#42
Senior Member
Originally Posted by player_1
I ment a larger pulley then the 2.7" originaly planned on. I probably going with a 2.9"
I was running at 14.2 when the by-pass kicked in at 5500RPM
I never got it cheaked with the by-pass mod done.
but again the larger injectors are mainly ment for the increased RPM Limit, and smaller pulley.
although I doubt that the stock injectors would provide enough feul for the tuned cams.
but then I'd save some money and get the 42lbers. I just skipped that step because I planned on doing more.
I was running at 14.2 when the by-pass kicked in at 5500RPM
I never got it cheaked with the by-pass mod done.
but again the larger injectors are mainly ment for the increased RPM Limit, and smaller pulley.
although I doubt that the stock injectors would provide enough feul for the tuned cams.
but then I'd save some money and get the 42lbers. I just skipped that step because I planned on doing more.
#43
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yah these tri-flows are pretty cool set of cams, I only lost a little power from 800-2800RPM but after that it is a steady increase in power.
what a little more confuesing is that I'm atually makeing more boost with the cams. I was like WTF isn't the car supposed to breath better and cause me to loose boost. but thats not the case.
here's my Dyno:
click the sheet at the bottom of the page
what a little more confuesing is that I'm atually makeing more boost with the cams. I was like WTF isn't the car supposed to breath better and cause me to loose boost. but thats not the case.
here's my Dyno:
click the sheet at the bottom of the page
#45
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thats when the By-pass valve opens up and bleads all my boost.
I did a dyno after that wit the by-pass mod I got to 223
I don't have the dyno sheet or AFR, for that run
I did a dyno after that wit the by-pass mod I got to 223
I don't have the dyno sheet or AFR, for that run
#46
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I am gonna order the stage II cams from turbotech my programs SHOULD be in from HP Tuners in a couple weeks so all of it will go in at once. Ill let everyone know how it does. I will be doing a Dyno run after all that goes in!
#49
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My buddy (the guy who has givin me his injectors and such) has spent a massive amount of money in the past with them. They are gonna get into the 2.2 computer for him, so we can tune my car. But hey remember im the ******* with the SS badges on my car. I will however let you 2.2 guys know whats up when i get mine tuned with the cams and bigger injectors in.
He had problems with them not wanting to mess with the Alero and he just put it to them i have spent money (over 10k) with you and your not gonna support my alero? they did this was a while ago now he has his SS/SC and I have my lil 2.2 so he said the same to them and they are gonna do it like they did with his alero.
He had problems with them not wanting to mess with the Alero and he just put it to them i have spent money (over 10k) with you and your not gonna support my alero? they did this was a while ago now he has his SS/SC and I have my lil 2.2 so he said the same to them and they are gonna do it like they did with his alero.