E85 Conversion Kit
12-05-2007, 08:54 AM
#27
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Hmm E85. A guy I work with has a civic si 02 model and has a garrett turbo and only runs E85 in his car. But I guess when you push 599 to the fly you kinda have to, and its his daily driver. The only itme he gets on it is when he is on the track. He babys his car. " What a *****". It will more than likely blow up on him on the street. I would do it. He told me he had to change out some of his hoes's and **** to change over to E85. It saves him money but you will lose gas mileage due to the fact it burns faster.
12-05-2007, 09:11 AM
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im a certified tech who is constantly going to school to keep up with todays technology so here a a few facts for ya guys. first off for the environmentally safe thing, E85 in no way is safe for the environment, not only does it pollute more coming from your car but also, for a factory to produce E85, it creates pullution equivalent to an additional 100,000 cars per day running 24 hours. Now for the good stuff! E85 Corrodes not only fuel systems such as fuel pumps, fuel lines, fuel injectors, o-rings, (name it, its gonna get trashed), but it also corrodes aluminum over time causing huge pits in it. Ive seen blocks that werent made for E85 and what it has done to them over extended periods of time. It basically makes huge corrosion spots where all it takes is a light scratch with a screwdriver and it turns into a fairly good sized pit. E85 will be gone in a couple years experts predict so i in no way would recommend this conversion for daily driving. If a block were specifically made to run E85 im sure it would do fine dont get me wrong, but buying a kit that tells injectors to stay open longer on a motor never designed to run it just seems wrong to me on so many levels.
12-05-2007, 09:24 AM
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Another Ethanol thread... Woooo!
Time for me to do my work.....
E85 does not help performance alone... you need -> more spark advance, and higher compression or more boost. You WILL see better performance when using it properly.
E85 has an equivalent octane of 105. This does not mean it has more energy content per litre than gas, though. Ethanol has less energy per litre.
E85 burns more fuel.... not way around it... it's a fact of ethanol.
Ethanol is corrosive to aluminum, and some plastics and synthetics.... no way around that either... use care this one...
To convert you need -> bigger compatible injectors, compatible (possibly bigger) fuel pump, and a proper tune... at minimum! Some cars need the whole fueling system changed.
Various other stuff involved.... but this is a general over view of what your looking at with any Ethanol based (blend) fuel.
BTW... test have shown it's not any better emissions, nor any worse... gas emissions = ethanol emissions
Ethanol is cleaner in one aspect.... field to pump! Despite common belief , the process to make ethanol is cleaner than it is to make gasoline.
Time for me to do my work.....
E85 does not help performance alone... you need -> more spark advance, and higher compression or more boost. You WILL see better performance when using it properly.
E85 has an equivalent octane of 105. This does not mean it has more energy content per litre than gas, though. Ethanol has less energy per litre.
E85 burns more fuel.... not way around it... it's a fact of ethanol.
Ethanol is corrosive to aluminum, and some plastics and synthetics.... no way around that either... use care this one...
To convert you need -> bigger compatible injectors, compatible (possibly bigger) fuel pump, and a proper tune... at minimum! Some cars need the whole fueling system changed.
Various other stuff involved.... but this is a general over view of what your looking at with any Ethanol based (blend) fuel.
BTW... test have shown it's not any better emissions, nor any worse... gas emissions = ethanol emissions
Ethanol is cleaner in one aspect.... field to pump! Despite common belief , the process to make ethanol is cleaner than it is to make gasoline.
12-05-2007, 10:56 AM
#30
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My 3.0 Ranger was flex fuel. I tried it out once, found a station with e85, filled her up i had maybe a gallon of 87 left in the tank. It ran fine, no change in power, but i only got 185 miles out of the tank when i usually get 250! 75 miles lost...
12-05-2007, 10:56 AM
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I'll take Ethanol and that nice 105 octane rating over pump gas ANYDAY.
Gas - 13.5 Gallons * 2.99 Gal = 40.36
Ethanol - 13.5 Gallons * 2.09Gal = 28.21
Will you get shittier gas mileage? Sure but that nice 12 dollars and 15 cents you save at the pump each time will make you feel better.
Gas - 13.5 Gallons * 2.99 Gal = 40.36
Ethanol - 13.5 Gallons * 2.09Gal = 28.21
Will you get shittier gas mileage? Sure but that nice 12 dollars and 15 cents you save at the pump each time will make you feel better.
12-05-2007, 11:01 AM
#32
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I'll take Ethanol and that nice 105 octane rating over pump gas ANYDAY.
Gas - 13.5 Gallons * 2.99 Gal = 40.36
Ethanol - 13.5 Gallons * 2.09Gal = 28.21
Will you get shittier gas mileage? Sure but that nice 12 dollars and 15 cents you save at the pump each time will make you feel better.
Gas - 13.5 Gallons * 2.99 Gal = 40.36
Ethanol - 13.5 Gallons * 2.09Gal = 28.21
Will you get shittier gas mileage? Sure but that nice 12 dollars and 15 cents you save at the pump each time will make you feel better.
12-05-2007, 11:28 AM
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12-05-2007, 11:29 AM
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E85 just burns cleaner plain and simple. You get a lot less MPG than what you would get running normal fuel. I was shocked at this as well, but they put in a blue flyer on the Dodge Rams with FlexFuel stating plain and simple you get LESS MPG with E85. I always had to make sure these flyers were posted on the new trucks before I put them on lot.
My Dad's company is going to move to FlexFuel cars in 2009 ONLY to save their face as it will look better if they are running better environment safe vehicles.
My Dad's company is going to move to FlexFuel cars in 2009 ONLY to save their face as it will look better if they are running better environment safe vehicles.
12-05-2007, 11:36 AM
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When we talk about octane in alternative fuels at all it is key to use the phrase 'equivalent'. Ethanol has an equivalent octane of 105. But does not act like 105 Octane gasoline.
As far as 'BOOM' goes... you car will not blow up quicker on ethanol, purely for the fact that the it takes alot more pressure and heat to ignite ethanol, as well as the fact that it burn slower.... hence 'built for ethanol' cars run high compression and high spark advance.
The bottom line, is that you would never treat nitrous or methanol fuels as gasoline, so why treat ethanol the same? It's a different fuel, with different properties; it needs to tuned differently also.
WRT emissions... see post #30
12-05-2007, 12:53 PM
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.... sorry... no... Ethanol is not the same as 87 octane.. it's not even the same as gasoline at all.
When we talk about octane in alternative fuels at all it is key to use the phrase 'equivalent'. Ethanol has an equivalent octane of 105. But does not act like 105 Octane gasoline.
As far as 'BOOM' goes... you car will not blow up quicker on ethanol, purely for the fact that the it takes alot more pressure and heat to ignite ethanol, as well as the fact that it burn slower.... hence 'built for ethanol' cars run high compression and high spark advance.
When we talk about octane in alternative fuels at all it is key to use the phrase 'equivalent'. Ethanol has an equivalent octane of 105. But does not act like 105 Octane gasoline.
As far as 'BOOM' goes... you car will not blow up quicker on ethanol, purely for the fact that the it takes alot more pressure and heat to ignite ethanol, as well as the fact that it burn slower.... hence 'built for ethanol' cars run high compression and high spark advance.
Thank you for straightening him out omega
12-05-2007, 01:42 PM
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.... sorry... no... Ethanol is not the same as 87 octane.. it's not even the same as gasoline at all.
When we talk about octane in alternative fuels at all it is key to use the phrase 'equivalent'. Ethanol has an equivalent octane of 105. But does not act like 105 Octane gasoline.
As far as 'BOOM' goes... you car will not blow up quicker on ethanol, purely for the fact that the it takes alot more pressure and heat to ignite ethanol, as well as the fact that it burn slower.... hence 'built for ethanol' cars run high compression and high spark advance.
The bottom line, is that you would never treat nitrous or methanol fuels as gasoline, so why treat ethanol the same? It's a different fuel, with different properties; it needs to tuned differently also.
WRT emissions... see post #30
When we talk about octane in alternative fuels at all it is key to use the phrase 'equivalent'. Ethanol has an equivalent octane of 105. But does not act like 105 Octane gasoline.
As far as 'BOOM' goes... you car will not blow up quicker on ethanol, purely for the fact that the it takes alot more pressure and heat to ignite ethanol, as well as the fact that it burn slower.... hence 'built for ethanol' cars run high compression and high spark advance.
The bottom line, is that you would never treat nitrous or methanol fuels as gasoline, so why treat ethanol the same? It's a different fuel, with different properties; it needs to tuned differently also.
WRT emissions... see post #30
12-05-2007, 06:32 PM
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12-05-2007, 07:45 PM
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I'm all for E85, but I won't use it. SUE ME TREEHUGERS! I get better MPG out of the 93 octane than I did with the Cobalt on 87.
12-05-2007, 09:38 PM
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I stay away from even 10% blends with both the car and bike.
Like I mentioned earlier, I'd be all for converting an iron block truck to Ethanol though.
12-05-2007, 09:55 PM
#45
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This is more of a question for Area47, he's the timing wizard.
I'm all about E85, but I'm with you on this subject. I know my car and bike engines are aluminum, and I've seen first hand what Ethanol does to Al.
I stay away from even 10% blends with both the car and bike.
Like I mentioned earlier, I'd be all for converting an iron block truck to Ethanol though.
I'm all about E85, but I'm with you on this subject. I know my car and bike engines are aluminum, and I've seen first hand what Ethanol does to Al.
I stay away from even 10% blends with both the car and bike.
Like I mentioned earlier, I'd be all for converting an iron block truck to Ethanol though.
12-05-2007, 11:16 PM
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people who are complaining that e85 dissolves the fuel pumps and everything else, what do you think gasoline does? the same thing, put over a peired of time, it's not like strong acid your putting into ur tank. there are studies that e85 is better for the engines because it burns cooler preventing the burning of engine valves and prevent the build-up of olefin's in fuel injectors, keeping the fuel system cleaner.
ethanol is bad for aluminum over a long time, that is why %15 of e85 is gasoline.. it acts as a lubricant.
newer cars compared to older car are made to prevent corrosion, so e85 wont destroy your car.
and you'll only get like 15% less MGP w/ e85
ethanol is bad for aluminum over a long time, that is why %15 of e85 is gasoline.. it acts as a lubricant.
newer cars compared to older car are made to prevent corrosion, so e85 wont destroy your car.
and you'll only get like 15% less MGP w/ e85
12-06-2007, 12:17 AM
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12-06-2007, 12:26 AM
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If you can in any way tell me how E85 is better for the environment, please do. In order to supply the demands of gasoline nowadays, and dont quote me on this one, basically the amount of land needed to grow the massive amounts of corn needed would be equal to if not more than every rainforest on earth. I'm no tree hugging hippee or anything but thats just retarted. Also if having one plant, and there needs to be tens of thousands, creates pollution equivalent to 100,000 vehicles on the road per day is good for the environment then all this emissions stuff that has been in effect is going in the totally wrong direction. Durka is right guys, E85 clearly is our environmental savior.
12-06-2007, 12:43 AM
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Aluminum head is in danger.
Ok... I'm going to break it down like this... again...
Ethanol is acidic to aluminum... 10%, 50% or 85%... its still acidic. It's not the lubricity that causes the problems... its the chemical itself.
I can tell you from experience, ethanol is indeed acidic over time... as in a year or two of fueling an engine. I've seen an intake manifold ate completly through on one of our ethanol-diesel test vehicles at work. (we were doing 4 point injection right after the intercooler)
Not all new cars are made to withstand ethanol either. Certain vehicles are made with specific parts and not labelled E85. So check your vin if you own a truck or mid-sized carf rom GM.
Finally, with respect to the 'cooler burn', etc. Read my previous posts. Ethanol is benificial if your engine is properly built and tuned for the fuel.
people who are complaining that e85 dissolves the fuel pumps and everything else, what do you think gasoline does? the same thing, put over a peired of time, it's not like strong acid your putting into ur tank. there are studies that e85 is better for the engines because it burns cooler preventing the burning of engine valves and prevent the build-up of olefin's in fuel injectors, keeping the fuel system cleaner.
ethanol is bad for aluminum over a long time, that is why %15 of e85 is gasoline.. it acts as a lubricant.
newer cars compared to older car are made to prevent corrosion, so e85 wont destroy your car.
and you'll only get like 15% less MGP w/ e85
ethanol is bad for aluminum over a long time, that is why %15 of e85 is gasoline.. it acts as a lubricant.
newer cars compared to older car are made to prevent corrosion, so e85 wont destroy your car.
and you'll only get like 15% less MGP w/ e85
Ethanol is acidic to aluminum... 10%, 50% or 85%... its still acidic. It's not the lubricity that causes the problems... its the chemical itself.
I can tell you from experience, ethanol is indeed acidic over time... as in a year or two of fueling an engine. I've seen an intake manifold ate completly through on one of our ethanol-diesel test vehicles at work. (we were doing 4 point injection right after the intercooler)
Not all new cars are made to withstand ethanol either. Certain vehicles are made with specific parts and not labelled E85. So check your vin if you own a truck or mid-sized carf rom GM.
Finally, with respect to the 'cooler burn', etc. Read my previous posts. Ethanol is benificial if your engine is properly built and tuned for the fuel.