Blue_Balt

iTrader: (1)

It's less efficient so that offsets any price advantage plus it isn't a total solution since it still needs gasoline.

rnjmur

so 13.5 gallons with gas @ 25 mpg = 337.5 @ 40.36 = 11.9 cents per mile
13.5 gallons with E85 @ (20% loss) 20 mpg = 270 @ 28.21 = 10.4 cents per mile

So you save 1.5 cents per mile. If you drive 15,000 miles per year, then you will save $225 per year. If you drive alot then you could potentially save a little money, but you have to pay for a conversion kit, which probably includes new injectors and a tune which probably costs $600 or more dollars. So it will take 3 years or better before you actually start saving any money. Plus if it causes any premature damage to fuel lines or gaskets that is repair money that comes out of your "savings" as well.

Blue_Balt

iTrader: (1)

How less efficient is E85?

Omega_5

In an engine designed for gas? Up to 25% less efficient.

lowrollin70gmc

For those worried about ag prices, here's some thoughts...

There is currently land out of production. Yes, the government does pay farmers to not plant fields in order to keep prices stable for those who are growing.

Also, if worried about the feeding of livestock, there is other feed than corn, and beef prices recently dropped due to importation of beef from Canada, further compounding the problem for cattle ranchers and farmers. If food prices go up slightly in a grocery store, it just means a family farmer can sustain his family easier, and I'm fine with that.

You do burn more fuel with ethanol, but the price difference can make up for it, if not just in the momentary satisfaction when cash is exchanged for fuel. If I had an E85 rig, I would use it.

And factories don't necessarily produce tons of emissions, they are all new designs (ethanol is a young industry), and gasoline refineries probably aren't tons better in emissions. My thoughts are that the corn helps produce oxygen and use CO2, possibly reducing the footprint.

Just my thoughts after scanning the four pages before me.

Onyxd04Redline

It's only money. Well worth the octane jump.

Blue_Balt

iTrader: (1)

How much is the usual price difference between Regular and E85? If E85 is around 25% less efficient than it's price at a bare minimum would have be at least $1 cheaper than regular gas.

lowrollin70gmc

E85 is currently $2.29, with regular fuel at $2.99 and premium at $3.49. E85 is therefore 23% cheaper than regular gas and 34% cheaper than premium. sop it almost makes up for it. Not enough difference for me to worry about. The only problem I see is that E85 can not be shipped through current gas lines, so it mainly stays in the Midwest, not the entire country.

Blue_Balt

iTrader: (1)

The Lowest regular around here be $2.80. From that price difference you will be better off using regular anyway.

rnjmur

Octane is not everything. As someone earlier said, E85 is "equivelant" to 105 octane which means that, yes, you can run more timing. However, since E85 burns much longer (and thus slower) then regualr gas you HAVE to run more timing just to get the equal amount of power at the power stroke as you would in a gasoline powered car. Unless you are going to be running extremely high amounts of boost where you need the combustion chamber temps to stay cooler, the benefits of ethanol's burn cycle are not going to be that much of a factor.

blktrax

Comparisons to regular gasoline
The horsepower a given engine has when using E85 is comparable (or slightly higher in some instances) to gasoline. Depending on composition and source, E85 has an octane rating of 100 to 105 [3] compared to regular gasoline's typical rating of 87 for regular and 93 for premium. This allows it to be used in higher compression engines, which can lower emissions.

E85 gets approximately 25% fewer miles per gallon. In order to save money at the pump the price differentiation between gasoline and e85 would need to exceed 25%. Currently E85 is about 5-10% less expensive in most areas.[4] More than 20 fueling stations across the Midwest are selling e85 25%-40% cheaper than gasoline.[5]


PER EXAMPLE
http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/20...gg-Edition.htm


(from Koenigsegg Press Release) Koenigsegg Edition cars.

Due to request from certain Koenigsegg Clients and Customers, Koenigsegg has created a Limited Edition version of it’s sought after cars.

The Koenigsegg Edition comes in two limited versions, the CCX and CCXR models.

It features a 5.0L twin supercharged Koenigsegg engine, together with many other unique features. The car is more track biased compared to the standard models, as it has stiffer springs and anti-roll bars, reset dampers and lowered chassis. It also features a fully visible carbon body a large adjustable rear wing, larger front splitter and side strakes for increased down force and a unique forged wheel design.

The interior is also reworked and features; color matched leather carpets, Edition side step plates, Edition chronograph instrument cluster, New edition only layout for the center consol control panels.

All other extra equipment comes as standard, such as Carbon Wheels, Special interior trim and color, Rearview camera, Satnav or Bluetooth, Amplifiers, complete Inconell exhaust system in order to save weight.

The Edition cars will be built in two different versions, a CCX model limited to 14 cars with 888 bhp and a CCXR (Bio flexi fuel) model limited to 6 cars with 1018 bhp. The price for the 888 hp CCX is 1 330 000 Euro, and 1 500 000 Euro for the 1018 hp CCXR (E85/petrol flex fuel) version. [Editor's note: this is approximately $1,955,632 for the CCX and $2,205,600 for the CCXR.] The two first of each version are already spoken for.

Each car comes with 5 years free Service and Warranty.

Unveiling of the Edition versions will be at the Geneva Motor show in March 2008, where the first delivery will take place


Second cite:
http://www.technologynewsdaily.com/node/4066

E85 Ethanol Powered Student Project Chevy Cobalt SS Will Attempt to Set Record
Published Sat, 2006-08-12 15:35 Automotive Tech
GM Performance Division returned to the Bonneville Salt Flats this week, intent on making up for lost time and focused on becoming the first team to set a record using E85 ethanol.

After only two days of speed trials last August, a violent storm swept through northern Utah , leaving standing water on the immense natural speedway and causing officials to cancel the final four days of the event. Until that point, GM Performance Division had set just one record in the G/BGL class (G Class/Blown Gas Lakester) with its Ecotec Lakester, which makes 2006 a redemption year of sorts for the team.

A Chevrolet Cobalt SS race car engineered in part by three female students, which will attempt to set records using both E85 ethanol and gasoline in the G/FCC (G Class/Unblown Fuel Competition Coupe) and G/GCC (G Class/Unblown Gas Competition Coupe) classes, respectively.

If the Student Project Cobalt SS is successful, it will be the first vehicle to set a record at Bonneville using E85, according to the group that sanctions Speed Week, the Southern California Timing Association (SCTA).

“E85 burns cooler and has a higher octane rating (108) than gasoline, which allows for increased power,” said Oppenheiser. “It’s essentially an environmentally friendly racing fuel, and with GM being a flex fuel vehicle leader, it only makes sense that GM Performance Division would expand that leadership by attempting to set the first E85 record at Bonneville.”

Rounding out the GM vehicle lineup for 2006 are three vehicles built in partnership with So-Cal Speed Shop – the radically redesigned 2006 Chevy So-Cal HHR, the Chevy So-Cal Cobalt SS race car and the Ecotec Lakester, which set a 189.205 mph speed record in the G/BGL class last year and is a modern-day replica of the famous So-Cal belly tank Lakester.

Making its debut in 2005, the Chevy So-Cal Bonneville HHR topped 208 mph on the Salt Flats last year, and attracted huge crowds in the pits and at the start line. Even though it didn’t get a chance to top the 16-year-old 226.835 mph record in G/BFCC class (G Class/Blown Fuel Competition Coupe), the chopped and stretched version of the production HHR achieved its objective of creating a buzz around Chevy's latest crossover vehicle. GM engineer and Bonneville record holder Jim Minneker will again drive the HHR in the G/BFCC class for 2006.

Based on the 2005 Cobalt SS Supercharged, the Chevy So-Cal Cobalt SS is long overdue for a record considering it stunned the crowd in 2004 with an unofficial 243.127-mph pass, earning it the nickname “243 Cobalt.” However, because production had not begun on the Cobalt, it wasn’t eligible to qualify for a record attempt. Last year, it was able to make only two passes before the rains set in.

GM Performance Division engineer Mark Dickens will pilot the Chevy So-Cal Cobalt this year and attempt to raise the bar in the G/BFALT class (G Class/Blown Fuel Altered) even higher than the 212.684-mph mark Minneker established in 2003, with a Saturn Ion Red Line coupe.

The Ecotec Lakester will again try to up the ante and best its own record in the G/BGL class at this year’s event, but this time, it’s 200 mph or bust for driver Mark Dickens.

“We know the car is capable of setting a 200-plus record, and we really won’t be satisfied unless we achieve that goal this year,” said Dickens. “Last year, we made a pass at 203 mph, so now it’s just a matter of actually putting it into the record book.”

The Bonneville Salt Flats has been the home of speed since the first organized trials were conducted there in 1914. It’s a speedway like no other; hand-crafted by Mother Nature and made of crystallized salt that stretches to the horizon. The grassroots racing environment is very demanding with a “run what you brung” mentality that’s distinctly American, and a deep foundation of tradition permeates the senses.

This year, GM Performance Division will provide regular updates on its record progress to the GM FYI Blog (fyi.gmblogs.com), giving visitors an inside look at the Bonneville experience.

Since 2003, when GM Performance Division first journeyed to the historic landscape and set a 212.684-mph speed record with a Saturn Ion Red Line, Ecotec engines have set five world speed records in only eight classes raced, providing GM with a measure of respect from the tight-knit Bonneville racing community. In 2004 alone, Ecotec engines set class records in G/BGL (179.381 mph), G/BFR (210.881 mph), G/BFS (309.607 mph) and G/BGS (290.567 mph).

“We consider the Ecotec engine to be this century’s small-block V-8 of four-cylinder engines,” said Oppenheiser, referencing the iconic Chevrolet V-8 engine introduced more than 50 years ago. “Highly adaptable and interchangeable, the Ecotec is extremely robust and provides racers with a great way to field an inexpensive, highly competitive race car. Plus, it’s very hard to argue against an engine that keeps winning races and setting records as much as the Ecotec.”

And ultimately, Bonneville is about just that, setting records. Given the four vehicles GM Performance Division is bringing to the Salt for 2006, there’s no reason to walk across the state line into Nevada and bet against them, unless you have inside information from Mother Nature





Summary: E85 for non tuned street cars (like my 2.2), not really worth it its like putting premium 93 in the tank (no real performance gain). Forced inducted cars tuned for it = Awesome... Its escentialy very cheap 100 octane fuel.